New York Times Pressures Credit Card Giants to Blacklist Gun Purchasers

[Inisfallen]

My apologies for my post, apparently deemed inappropriate by some community members. Sometimes my sense of humor is too sarcastic.

 

[Inisfallen]

The laws of the 70s and 80s were arguably more restrictive than what exists now under Heller and subsequent cases.

As far as I know, the gun laws of New York City are the same now as they were then, although they’re more strictly enforced now. They’re extremely restrictive.

And I’m completely on board with that.

 

[Guinness]

As far as I know, the gun laws of New York City are the same now as they were then, although they’re more strictly enforced now. They’re extremely restrictive.

IOW, the incredibly strict gun laws of NYC had little to no impact on the murder rate…

 

[Inisfallen]

IOW, the incredibly strict gun laws of NYC had little to no impact on the murder rate…

Perhaps not. But the tougher enforcement of those laws correlates strongly with a massive drop in the homicide rate.

 

[Cathoholic]

Cathoholic . . .

I personally would not want a full auto.

.

DisInherited2006 . . .

With appropriate trigger control giving you three round bursts full auto can be relatively accurate.

Something to think about.

Thank you.

 

[DENNYINMI]

We already have universal background checks to the degree it is practical. Mandating background checks for private sales isn’t practical because of the lack of and impossibility of creating a national firearms registry.

It’s not impossible, but it is a bone of contention and an arguable point with the pro’s and con’s of the usual talking points. In the end it always seems that the end argument for the “con” is the confiscation of guns from law abiding citizens and of course, I don’t buy that.

 

[Cathoholic]

DENNYINMI

Common sense could begin with universal background checks for ALL sales cathoholic. . . . But…I can only speak for myself.

(Bold mine)

But I am not concerned so much as what “the beginning” of ANY definition is or “could be”, so much as my concern about the WHOLE definition.

The fact that you can “only speak for yourself”, makes my point.
Nobody knows what “common sense gun laws” are. (But it is evident such definitions include incrementally disarming law-abiding citizens).

 

[DENNYINMI]

I was more than happy to oblige, but lets dispense with the small talk, shall we?

Many agree as I do. To say I was alone would be a complement I don’t deserve, I learned from the smartest and the best!~ especially re: the respect for guns. But, thank you.

 

[Guinness]

I personally would not want a full auto.

Who could afford it? A fully automatic M-16 would go through about $500 worth of ammunition every minute…

 

[Guinness]

It’s not impossible,

It really is. There is no way you can accurately capture unique information for 100 million existing gunowners owning nearly half a billion firearms. Canada tried with it with a much smaller and more compliant population and it was an abject failure.

 

[DENNYINMI]

If the NRA can have a pretty substantial list of gun owners, where there is a will, there would be a way.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[Guinness]

If the NRA can have a pretty substantial list of gun owner

The NRA has a list of it’s members, not a list of gun owners. Surprisingly, not all NRA members own firearms, and further, only a small minority of gun owners are members of the NRA.

 

[DENNYINMI]

The NRA has a list of it’s members, not a list of gun owners. Surprisingly, not all NRA members own firearms, and further, only a small minority of gun owners are members of the NRA.

That’s debatable as well as your argument that initiating background checks on ALL sales would require a ‘de-facto-’ federal gun registry, even though it is illegal at this time to maintain the information, and is considered private. Are most members of the NRA gun owners? If forced to put money on it, I would say yes.(remember, I said “substantial” list)

No one outside of the business of selling guns should be selling them or passing them on to nephew Joey. Period. It’s how criminals slip through the system and give good gun owners a bad rap. No sir. No background check, no sale.

 

[LastStand]

Settlers and pioneers, not economic migrants. There was no nation for them to come to, they built it. That is not comparable to showing up at a 1st world post-industrial state and demanding admission and welfare.

 

[Guinness]

That’s debatable as well as your argument that initiating background checks on ALL sales would require a ‘de-facto-’ federal gun registry, even though it is illegal at this time to maintain the information, and is considered private. Are most members of the NRA gun owners?

Absent a national registry how do you enforce background checks on the nearly half a billion firearms currently in private hands? And the NRA claims 5 million members. Most estimates say there are 100 million firearms owners in the US, so only a small minority of gun owners are NRA members meaning NRA member roles will not be a reliable way of crafting a universal gun registry.

 

[Cathoholic]

DENNYINMI to Guinness . . .

your argument that initiating background checks on ALL sales would require a ‘de-facto-’ federal gun registry, even though it is illegal at this time to maintain the information, and is considered private.

Just as an interesting side note.

When George Bush Jr. took over for Bill Clinton, he found the Federal NICS people were KEEPING the fire arm transaction names! They were sequestering that information.

That was illegal then too (but the Government did it anyway).

Bush told them they had to purge that information.

Presumably they did (but nobody knows for sure outside of them).

What would have (did) President Obama (or for that matter President Trump) done?

Hopefully obeyed the law and told them to rid themselves of that illegal information against our citizens (and send the perpetrators to jail).

But we don’t know that.

No accountabilty was ever rendered for these crimes back in 2000 and before. (Lack of accountability is one of the reasons citizens are to be very cautious as to how much power they allow their own Governments to amass.)

The fact that it is illegal for the Government to possess the names of the NICS background check people after a limited amount of time is not persuasive. At least to me.

 

[JonNC]

I’m glad that when guns are banned they will abide by the law.

That’s what the tyrants of the twentieth century said…
…then they murdered tens of millions of their citizens.
And since you refuse to respond to my question, one must assume you’re okay with government keeping arms.

 

[DENNYINMI]

Absent a national registry how do you enforce background checks on the nearly half a billion firearms currently in private hands?

The exact same way they are doing it when sold through those licensed to sell. Everyone should be run through a safety data base (NICS) if you’re going to operate a gun. Not a pin ball machine. A gun. That means something that has the power to take your life.

Now, we’re not going to agree on this, but I’m not a person that believes we stop at something someone believes is impossible when anything indeed IS possible and doing so without setting up a Federal data base of “owners”.

I want persons checked for “safety to own” a gun, all of them, period, end of story.

 

[DENNYINMI]

Federal Denials Reasons Why the NICS Section Denies November 30, 1998 - November 30, 2018

1Convicted of a crime punishable by more than one year or a misdemeanor punishable by more than two years 836,574
2 Fugitive from Justice 184,273
3 Unlawful User/Addicted to a Controlled Substance 146,367
4 Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence Conviction 145,162
5 State Prohibitor 87,440
6 Protection/Restraining Order for Domestic Violence 59,948
7 Under Indictment/Information 55,695
8 Adjudicated Mental Health 38,611
9 Illegal/Unlawful Alien 25,825
10 Federally Denied Persons File 6,321
11 Dishonorable Discharge 1,192
12 Renounced U.S. Citizenship 101

1,587,509Total Federal Denials

I wonder how many more actually have firearms that fall into the above categories because they purchased or procured a firearm due to avoiding the NICS background check. Since it’s not necessary when you procure from someone “not in the firearm business” I’d bet there are many.

 

[LastStand]

How many of those people purchased a firearm from the average citizen or from another criminal buddy?