NFP and marriage

[hummy329]

I’ve been engaged to the love of my life for 8 months and we’re getting married in 4. We come from Catholic families and are devout Catholics ourselves. We are excited for the marital act. My only worry is getting pregnant. Don’t get me wrong, I love children. I don’t know if I’m ready to be a mom though! I’m in my first year of my master’s degree program at age 22. I have 2 more years to go. My fiance has made it clear he doesn’t want to practice NFP to avoid conception unless we have a valid reason which is highly unlikely. To him, studying is not a valid reason to postpone pregnancy. He has made it clear we should postpone the wedding if I’m not ready to be open to life (yes I realize practicing NFP to avoid conception is still being open to life but studying isn’t a valid enough reason for him)! We’ve been dating for over 3 years. I think we are so ready for marriage and I could not imagine postponing the wedding after sending out invitations, booking the venue for our reception, even family living on the other side of the country have flights booked! I believe we are ready to become one flesh. As the wedding day gets closer and closer I feel myself getting more and more scared. My fiance and I have taken NFP classes and I thought the possibility of us practicing NFP to avoid conception was highly likely in the first 6 months-2 years of marriage. I never realized how much my fiance was against it until a few weeks ago. I understand I could get pregnant at any time and would gladly welcome a baby! I like the option of practicing NFP to avoid conception for a little though. How am I supposed to feel on my wedding day? Wedding night? At the moment I’m thinking I will be too scared to have sex thinking there’s a possibility of getting pregnant! We are financially stable, have insurance, wonderful place to live. I feel hurt and objectified by my fiance as well. Do I not have a say as to what is a valid reason to practice NFP to avoid conception or not? Aren’t we supposed to prayerfully discern this together?

 

[underacloud]

The Church doesn’t have a list of valid reasons. You are quite right that it is something you should prayfully discern together (and separately).

Some people, such as your fiance, won’t think study is a valid reason to postpone. Other people (including me) think it’s a perfectly acceptable reason. It is a serious reason, which is the key requirement.

The fact that the two of you disagree and he seems to have such a strong view is a greater problem than just the issue at hand. If you two cannot resolve this issue, without you just giving in for the sake of it, then perhaps you are not ready for marriage. Better to postpone, even if it is embarrassing to do so, than make a serious mistake if you two are not ready for marriage.

I’d suggest a discussion with a trusted priest would help you work through this together.

 

[Tietjen]

I agree with underacloud. A MUTUAL decision needs to be reached. If your fiance refuses to compromise on this issue (a HUGE issue) then what future decisions will you have no say in? My suggestion to you would be to wait until you are BOTH fully open to the possibility of children. God bless.

 

[SusanneT]

I agree with underacloud. A MUTUAL decision needs to be reached. If your fiance refuses to compromise on this issue (a HUGE issue) then what future decisions will you have no say in? My suggestion to you would be to wait until you are BOTH fully open to the possibility of children. God bless.

I agree totally !

 

[hummy329]

I have a feeling I will end up giving in and being open to life 100%! I wish I could calm my nerves. I love children but life changes so much once you have one of your own. Thank you for all of the advice.

 

[choose_to_love]

On the issue of continued studies: Is the advanced degree necessary for a reasonable job prospect in your field? I ask this because one component of analyzing whether or not that constitutes a serious reason to postpone could be whether you would be able to reasonably support yourself & kids should hubby-to-be become unable to work or pass away.

And of course it is not what you or he alone wants, but what God is calling you to.

Also, in times in our marriage when there have been big decisions looming, we have tried to especially make time for Adoration, to help us discern His will.

 

[1ke]

Your fiance is right.

You really need to think about the fact that you are scared to become pregnant because you are in graduate school. People go to graduate school with children all the time.

So, I guess you have to ask yourself if doing graduate school on some self imposed timeline is more important than marriage and family. If that answer is yes, then your fiance is right and you two aren’t ready to be married.

School is important, but it is secondary to your vocation. If you view it as primary, then your priorities are not the same as your future spouse’s.

 

[fpt]

I have a feeling I will end up giving in and being open to life 100%! I wish I could calm my nerves. I love children but life changes so much once you have one of your own. Thank you for all of the advice.

Questions for you before the day of wedding:

Why does he think that the fact of studying is not a serious reason for postponing a baby??? Why this moral point of view? Do you know why? Do you know his intellectual moral masters?

Do you know the moral point of view of your fiancée about the marital act? Did you discuss easily about that? Do you talk openly about this intimate topic?

Are you clear? Is he clear. Are you on the same line? Do you know your own needs, your own hopes, your own desires and your own wishes about the marital act and the conjugal sexual harmony? Did you tell him?

Do you know his needs, his hopes, his desires, his wishes about the marital act and the conjugal sexual harmony? Did he tell you?

How is your pre cana preparation? Do you have one?

 

[fpt]

I have a feeling I will end up giving in and being open to life 100%! I wish I could calm my nerves. I love children but life changes so much once you have one of your own. Thank you for all of the advice.

Only for information, read these threads. God reading.

NFP and traditional movements
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=658879

Compatibilities or incompatibilities between Quivervull movement and the teaching of catholic church
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=656125

Points of view of Traditional catholic movements on theoretical providentialism?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=656810

Responsible procreation, NFP before Fall and just after???
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=658443

 

[CakeState]

Having a baby needs to be a mutual decision. If you postpone the wedding, it should be to work out the issues between you regarding that and the fact that he doesn’t seem to want to take your concerns into account. To me, that is a scary red flag. He probably feels like he is being a good Catholic and potential parent by following a very conservative interpretation of “just cause,” but there is no list of specific reasons that count as “just.” It’s more about the attitude, i.e. you are postponing because you really do not feel psychologically ready for a baby and truly do feel you should finish your degree first as opposed to using them as excuses. Additionally, psychological reasons are specifically cited as a type of reason that could warrant postponing. 2 years is not a long time and will be spent earning something that will better support your family, it’s not like you are putting it off indefinitely so you can live only for yourselves or some other iffy reason. I know many people who have earned degrees while caring for young children, but they have said it was difficult and that it was a constant struggle to give the baby and the education the attention they deserved. I don’t blame you one bit for thinking it’s a good reason to postpone. Even if others could juggle it all, we all have our own limits and you need to understand and respect yours.
You also need to think of your future - if he is the type that leans towards the view that there is rarely a reason to use NFP to avoid pregnancy, you may be pressured into having more children than you intend to or to have a child despite a genuine psychological or physical reason to space another pregnancy.

 

[Kelfa28]

I have a feeling I will end up giving in and being open to life 100%! I wish I could calm my nerves. I love children but life changes so much once you have one of your own. Thank you for all of the advice.

Life changes but there is no reason why you can’t make life work in your favor!

Congrats on the engagement. Here is my advice:

I’m a mother of one and I’m actually working on my bachelor’s degree. My husband and I do practice NFP but I have come to realize that school is not a reason to postpone a pregnancy. I’ve been taking care of a baby and going to school while my husband provides. I have very good grades and I don’t have to work right now.

We are postponing for other reasons. One of which is we are both in the military and I’d like to fulfill my military obligations for the next year or so. Also, we wan’t to space out children.

I know I can always go back to school. You may have a child right away and you also may wan’t to space between pregnancies to give your body a rest. That might be a good time to start working on some classes. Take them online if you have to.

The only questions I have is that your husband is fully aware that he will be the primary, if not the sole provider, if he does not wish to use NFP. If you have a crowd of kiddos (and God bless you if you do…) then he should be expected to be out working hard to provide. He should also recognize that a woman’s body will need rest time in between pregnancies if you need it.
My husband recognizes this and is fine with using NFP for about a year until I’m ready for another kiddo.

My advice? Insist you both take an NFP class right now before you get married. It can’t hurt. It will be useful for any future discernment to use NFP and you can start charting now before you get married to get used to your cycles. Your fiance will probably get a better understanding of NFP by doing this anyway. You can still chart but not avoid as well when you are married.

God has a plan. Relax and stick with lots of prayer for both you and your fiance. Remember, communication is the absolute foundation for a good marriage. You need to communicate and should both be in agreement. He shouldn’t demand anything of you if you are not comfortable. If you have to postpone the marriage then that is your decision.

 

[hummy329]

Your response is the one I can relate to the most. Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I will prayerfully discern and discuss with my fiance. Even show him this thread! Thank you all for the advice!

Having a baby needs to be a mutual decision. If you postpone the wedding, it should be to work out the issues between you regarding that and the fact that he doesn’t seem to want to take your concerns into account. To me, that is a scary red flag. He probably feels like he is being a good Catholic and potential parent by following a very conservative interpretation of “just cause,” but there is no list of specific reasons that count as “just.” It’s more about the attitude, i.e. you are postponing because you really do not feel psychologically ready for a baby and truly do feel you should finish your degree first as opposed to using them as excuses. Additionally, psychological reasons are specifically cited as a type of reason that could warrant postponing. 2 years is not a long time and will be spent earning something that will better support your family, it’s not like you are putting it off indefinitely so you can live only for yourselves or some other iffy reason. I know many people who have earned degrees while caring for young children, but they have said it was difficult and that it was a constant struggle to give the baby and the education the attention they deserved. I don’t blame you one bit for thinking it’s a good reason to postpone. Even if others could juggle it all, we all have our own limits and you need to understand and respect yours.
You also need to think of your future - if he is the type that leans towards the view that there is rarely a reason to use NFP to avoid pregnancy, you may be pressured into having more children than you intend to or to have a child despite a genuine psychological or physical reason to space another pregnancy.

 

[hummy329]

Thank you for your reply. My masters degree is very necessary for a reasonable job prospect. Although highly unlikely, I am worried about being able to support my future family if my fiance is no longer able. Thank you.

On the issue of continued studies: Is the advanced degree necessary for a reasonable job prospect in your field? I ask this because one component of analyzing whether or not that constitutes a serious reason to postpone could be whether you would be able to reasonably support yourself & kids should hubby-to-be become unable to work or pass away.

And of course it is not what you or he alone wants, but what God is calling you to.

Also, in times in our marriage when there have been big decisions looming, we have tried to especially make time for Adoration, to help us discern His will.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I think the discussion needs to be about your future family’s life, as a whole.
ALL decisions need to be made mutually…
Is this career path right for you as a family?
Is this degree necessary for you as a family?
Is it possible to have a baby as a family while earning this degree? Does your fiance realize that this is going to require additional efforts on HIS end in order to maintain the overall sanity of the family?

All of these decisions need to be made in a mutual, prayerful manner.

Some families cannot handle certain situations because the support system is not in place. Other families are able to overcome barriers more easily because personalities are more suited to having the overall support system in place.

None of us can decide this for you.

But what I’m hearing is that your fiance is not hearing you out with your concerns. This MUST be addressed and discussed and prayed about… NOW.

 

[fpt]

Thank you for your reply. My masters degree is very necessary for a reasonable job prospect. Although highly unlikely, I am worried about being able to support my future family if my fiance is no longer able. Thank you.

Other questions for you, before the day of wedding. You need to know if both of them, you are or not on the same line concerning:

The conjugal sexual morality of marital act: when, where, why, what for, how, how often, how many time, how fast?

The notion of the responsible procreation, the notion of the responsible paternity, the notion of the responsible maternity? The serious reasons for practicing natural family planning?

The serious reasons coming from wife for the refusal of requesting of the marital act? The serious reasons coming from husband for the refusal of requesting of the marital act?

The serious reasons coming from husband for the unilateral refusal of marital act, when wife is asking? The serious reasons coming from wife for the unilateral refusal of marital act, when husband is asking?

To ask, not to ask, to refuse, to not refuse: THE MARITAL ACT.

What is his moral line? What is your moral line? Are you morally compatible on this topic of the conjugal sexuality?

 

[fpt]

Thank you for your reply. My masters degree is very necessary for a reasonable job prospect. Although highly unlikely, I am worried about being able to support my future family if my fiance is no longer able. Thank you.

For understanding yourself and knowing better your fiancé: other questions

ABOUT THE MARRIAGE, THE MARITAL ACT, AND ABOUT THE FAMILY:

THE ENDS OF MARRIAGE? THE HIERARCHY OF THE ENDS OF MARRIAGE, YES OR NO? THE ENDS OF MARITAL ACT? THE RIGHTS OF THE BODY? THE MARITAL DEBT (CONJUGAL SEX)?

THE ROLE OF HUSBAND? THE ROLE OF WIFE? HOUSEWIFE? HOUSEHUSBAND!!! HOME SCHOOLING? BUSINESSWOMAN AND WIFE? BUSINESSMAN AND HUSBAND? HOW MANY CHILDREN DO YOU THINK TO HAVE? DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A LARGE FAMILY? DO YOU HOPE A LARGE FAMILY? TO TAKE CARE OR TO EDUCATE?

THE RIGHTS OF HUSBAND? THE RIGHTS OF WIFE? THE OBLIGATIONS OF HUSBAND? THE OBLIGATIONS OF WIFE? THE DUTIES OF HUSBAND? THE DUTIES OF WIFE? THE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF ACCEPTIONS OF DEFINITIONS OF EACH ONE OF THOSE WORDS? ARE YOU ON THE SAME LINE? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE SAME THING?

DO YOU HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING OF THOSE NOTIONS?

 

[Sillara]

Aside from 1ke, whose advice on this forum I have never actually seen be wrong, I feel as though most (not all! I know a couple of people agreed with 1ke) people are vilifying the OP’s fiance.

Many people will repeat ad nauseam that sufficient reasons for postponing/spacing children are subjective. What might seem a valid reason to one person may not to another. Over and over, posters will be told “Don’t you DARE suggest that this couple’s reason might not be valid. Of COURSE it is because they think it is!!!”

But the flip side of that is that if someone does not think it is valid, then it is NOT sufficient reason.

The OP’s fiance does not consider schooling sufficient reason to postpone children. His conscience says that it is not sufficient. The OP’s conscience is not saying to her that she has a moral duty NOT to have children. She is, by her own admission, simply frightened of doing so. She does not consider it immoral. Her fiance does consider postponing immoral.

Why does her comfort trump his conscience? He is perfectly amenable to a situation that would more completely guarantee the OP’s smooth, uninterrupted graduation–postponing the wedding rather postponing the children. Why is this wrong?

If I were a friend of the OP’s fiance, I would certainly be warning him that his intended does not respect his conscience.

OP, you love your fiance, yes? Why oh why would you want him to do something that he considers wrong because you are fearful? He is all right with postponing the wedding for your schooling’s sake. YOU are the one who is being demanding here. You want the marriage now, AND you want him to go against his conscience to give you this marriage now? Is that loving?

 

[Walking_Home]

Having a baby needs to be a mutual decision. If you postpone the wedding, it should be to work out the issues between you regarding that and the fact that he doesn’t seem to want to take your concerns into account. To me, that is a scary red flag. He probably feels like he is being a good Catholic and potential parent by following a very conservative interpretation of “just cause,” but there is no list of specific reasons that count as “just.” It’s more about the attitude, i.e. you are postponing because you really do not feel psychologically ready for a baby and truly do feel you should finish your degree first as opposed to using them as excuses. Additionally, psychological reasons are specifically cited as a type of reason that could warrant postponing. 2 years is not a long time and will be spent earning something that will better support your family, it’s not like you are putting it off indefinitely so you can live only for yourselves or some other iffy reason. I know many people who have earned degrees while caring for young children, but they have said it was difficult and that it was a constant struggle to give the baby and the education the attention they deserved. I don’t blame you one bit for thinking it’s a good reason to postpone. Even if others could juggle it all, we all have our own limits and you need to understand and respect yours.
You also need to think of your future - if he is the type that leans towards the view that there is rarely a reason to use NFP to avoid pregnancy, you may be pressured into having more children than you intend to or to have a child despite a genuine psychological or physical reason to space another pregnancy.

---

Agreed – Its a huge red flag.

 

[fpt]

BEFORE THE WEDDING: Fiançaille, time of preparation of marriage…ETC

THEY NEED TO HAVE A GREAT TALK ABOUT THIS SPECIAL TOPIC** FOR AVOIDING THE FUTURE PROBLEMATICS CONCERNING THE CONJUGAL SEXUAL HARMONY**.

INTELLECTUALLY SPEAKING, PHILOSOPHICALLY SPEAKING, THEOLOGICALLY SPEAKING, MORALLY SPEAKING, RELIGIOUSLY SPEAKING, SOCIALLY SPEAKING, FINANCIALLY SPEAKING, CULTURALLY SPEAKING, SEXUALLY SPEAKING IN THOUGHT:** ARE THEY ON THE SAME LINE? DO THEY SHARE THE SAME FUNDAMENTAL VALUES AND THE DEGREES OF THEIR APPLICATIONS?**

BEFORE THE WEDDING, THEY NEED TO TALK IN BEING HONEST, FRANK, SINCERE, DIRECT AND HUMBLE:

OPEN HIS/HER HEART, HIS/HER THOUGHTS, HIS/HER INTERPRETATIONS, HIS/HER NEEDS, TO THE OTHER.

 

[ExGratia]

Aside from 1ke, whose advice on this forum I have never actually seen be wrong, I feel as though most (not all! I know a couple of people agreed with 1ke) people are vilifying the OP’s fiance.

Many people will repeat ad nauseam that sufficient reasons for postponing/spacing children are subjective. What might seem a valid reason to one person may not to another. Over and over, posters will be told “Don’t you DARE suggest that this couple’s reason might not be valid. Of COURSE it is because they think it is!!!”

But the flip side of that is that if someone does not think it is valid, then it is NOT sufficient reason.

The OP’s fiance does not consider schooling sufficient reason to postpone children. His conscience says that it is not sufficient. The OP’s conscience is not saying to her that she has a moral duty NOT to have children. She is, by her own admission, simply frightened of doing so. She does not consider it immoral. Her fiance does consider postponing immoral.

Why does her comfort trump his conscience? He is perfectly amenable to a situation that would more completely guarantee the OP’s smooth, uninterrupted graduation–postponing the wedding rather postponing the children. Why is this wrong?

If I were a friend of the OP’s fiance, I would certainly be warning him that his intended does not respect his conscience.

OP, you love your fiance, yes? Why oh why would you want him to do something that he considers wrong because you are fearful? He is all right with postponing the wedding for your schooling’s sake. YOU are the one who is being demanding here. You want the marriage now, AND you want him to go against his conscience to give you this marriage now? Is that loving?

Sillara said (a bit more forcefully and much more clearly) what I’d been thinking. My husband (then fiance) had some brief doubts about his ability to provide and mentioned his fears, saying that we should maybe practice NFP for a time. I said, then we should postpone the wedding. He said “no, we won’t” because he knew God takes care of us and we’d already discerned that this was the right path. A hypothetical about your fiance maybe not being able to provide (when you don’t seem to have a rational reason) is just giving into fear. Not to mention is an insult to him!

We conceived our child within a month of our wedding. I knew (from my own knowledge of NFP) that it was a definite possibility, and I put fears out of my head and we dove into parenthood.

We actually had what many would consider good reasons to postpone. My husband is still at the early stages of his career and not making much money (although he is due for a raise right around our due date!). He was laid off for a few weeks. We are fixing up an old house. But we knew that God’s will was for us to be open to the gift he generously gave us.

Just be open to God’s will. Perhaps postponing is His will; no one on here can tell you otherwise.

But be sure to discern what is truly of God and what isn’t. Unfounded fears are not of God, so they seem to be a distraction to discernment.

I hope for all the best for you and your future family!