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Debora123
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Wow, I never said that.
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mtbender
Guest
I didn’t say you did, I used the word imply….Wow, I never said that.
But if I inferred wrong, I would love for you to clarify this statement for me:
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LJN21
Guest
My husband and I were virgins until our wedding night. Honestly, for the first 8 years of our marriage I would have laughed at the idea that periodic abstinence could bring anymore blessings than lots of sex. For the first couple years of periodic abstinence I would have considered it a curse. Now finely, I’m starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel and realize how many blessings it does bring.
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mommamaree
Guest
If you look back at my post, you will see that we understood God’s gift of sexuality for quite some time before we needed to practice periodic continence. And yet it wasn’t until we actually began the abstinent periods that we experienced healing of that aspect of our relationship.
Also, I never said or implied that our relationship lacked a connection that went beyond the physical. That is an unfair assumption.
My husband and I met at the age of 13. We got engaged at 18. We got married at 19. So during all the times of our dating, we were “practicing abstinence”. We were friends before lovers. But the damage had already been done by very bad upbringings for both of us, and early exposure to porn as a result of my husband’s perverted older stepbrother.
Debora, I generally like your perspective as well as your delivery in your posts. However, you are accidentally making some unfair assumptions and are coming across as if you believe that only sexually-broken people could benefit from abstinence. This is NOT what our holy fathers have said, nor is it consistent with the experience of innumerable faithful couples.
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Debora123
Guest
Yes, you are wrong.
I’m not sure how my statement in any way “implies” that “those who chose to abstain in marriage are those who do not understand.”
I know a lot of married couples abstain for NFP reasons, or due to illness, or because they are far apart, or as a type of “fasting”, etc etc…
There’s nothing wrong with those things, I just wouldn’t call it a “blessing” unless they were in a situation where abstaining would actually help fix their marriage. Like with Mamamaree for example.
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mtbender
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Okay, so let me be sure I get this right this time – those who see it as a blessing must have something broken in their marriage (aka: needs abstinence to help fix)? Again, this seems to be a very disingenuous statement.Yes, you are wrong.
I’m not sure how my statement in any way “implies” that “those who chose to abstain in marriage are those who do not understand.”
I know a lot of married couples abstain for NFP reasons, or due to illness, or because they are far apart, or as a type of “fasting”, etc etc…
There’s nothing wrong with those things, I just wouldn’t call it a “blessing” unless they were in a situation where abstaining would actually help fix their marriage. Like with Mamamaree for example.
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Debora123
Guest
No, that is not what I said.
Here’s what I said:
“Ultimately, I think it’s more correct to say that if a certain couple has difficulties understanding God’s gift of sexuality, and if their marriage lacks a connection that goes beyond the physical, then yes, perhaps for them taking some time off and abstaining in order to learn and heal would end up coming as a blessing.”
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mtbender
Guest
Abstinence can always be a blessing to any couple…
It is when we refuse to look beyond the hardship of a situation (abstinence) that it becomes a burden. It is when we refuse to acknowledge the possible good and strive for it that is becomes intolerable. The couple decides if abstinence is going to be a blessing or a curse – and that decision will surely affect the marriage and their resolve for NFP. There are those who will refuse to accept any good in it, and it is disheartening. It is taking something that can benefit them so much and refusing to accept it for what it is. There are so many things that seem like a hindrance until we really stop to understand and explore them. To each their own – but for me – I choose to look at the beauty in it and use it as a tool to strengthen the union that God himself has created.
It is when we refuse to look beyond the hardship of a situation (abstinence) that it becomes a burden. It is when we refuse to acknowledge the possible good and strive for it that is becomes intolerable. The couple decides if abstinence is going to be a blessing or a curse – and that decision will surely affect the marriage and their resolve for NFP. There are those who will refuse to accept any good in it, and it is disheartening. It is taking something that can benefit them so much and refusing to accept it for what it is. There are so many things that seem like a hindrance until we really stop to understand and explore them. To each their own – but for me – I choose to look at the beauty in it and use it as a tool to strengthen the union that God himself has created.
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Debora123
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They can see it as a “blessing” if they want I guess, whatever, but I certainly don’t see it that way, and I certainly don’t think it’s a “blessing” when me and my husband abstain. I just see it as something that needs to happen sometimes.
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Cerne
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Mommamaree, Its wonderful to see the churches teaching make such a positive difference in your lives.It was a blessing in ours. It really can happen!
In the early years of our marriage, my husband had a very selfish, porn-informed view of sexual relations. I was an object to be used.
Because of our conversion, he started receiving sacramental grace and learning the teachings of the Church about holy sexuality. Our relationship started to improve some, but it wasn’t until AFTER periodic abstinence came into play to space our pregnancies, that things got way better between us.
He went from a selfish pleasure-seeker, to a generous lover who cares very much about my readiness, my enjoyment, and my spiritual and emotional well-being. He has a much more holistic perspective on sexual relations and marriage now.
And that did not occur until we had to practice abstinence.
Your statements above are clearly living proof that ***“the love of man and woman loses nothing as a result of temporary abstention from erotic experiences, but on the contrary gains: the personal union takes deeper root, grounded as it is above all in affirmation of the value of the person and not just in sexual attachment.” ***
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mommamaree
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But WHY it “needs to happen sometimes” is an important consideration. Because you are giving up a good in order to strive together for a greater good! Therein lies at least part of the blessing. You have a choice!They can see it as a “blessing” if they want I guess, whatever, but I certainly don’t see it that way, and I certainly don’t think it’s a “blessing” when me and my husband abstain. I just see it as something that needs to happen sometimes.
God gave you and your husband the ability to act or not act on your sexual desires. You are able to set them aside for a time, when you have reason to, and practice self-mastery and sacrificial love. There are tremendous blessings in that. You may not see that now, but never doubt for a second that you WILL, at some later point, realize what God was doing in secret, in the depths of your soul, to bring something good out of something difficult. Hold onto that reality, expect it, ask for it, claim it. You may be practicing NFP TTA, or you may have an illness, or whatever…whatever the reason, abstinence within marriage will sometimes/oftentimes be necessary. But God never fails to bless those difficult times when we unite them to Christ’s Passion.
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mtbender
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Fair enough…They can see it as a “blessing” if they want I guess, whatever, but I certainly don’t see it that way, and I certainly don’t think it’s a “blessing” when me and my husband abstain. I just see it as something that needs to happen sometimes.
The premises of this whole discussion has been that abstinence can be a blessing under the right circumstances for any couple. Those circumstances do not equate to negatives within the marriage – but the attitude in which the couple approaches there times. Even the most happily married couples can find beauty and faith in time of abstinence.
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mommamaree
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And we, my husband and I, thank God with all our hearts for it. What we have learned, by taking these teachings and running with them, so to speak, will hopefully help to sustain and strengthen us when future challenges come along. The teachings, and the sacramental grace available to us in marriage, that is.
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Debora123
Guest
Sometimes he’s out of town, sometimes I’m out of town, sometimes I’m ill, sometimes he’s ill, sometimes we had a fight, sometimes he’s tired, sometimes I’m tired, sometimes he’s too stressed, sometimes I’m too stressed… and of course, there was that time I had my surgery and was untouchable for 2 weeks.
It’s very normal for couples to have to abstain a number of times each month. It’s just a reality. Of course, during these times the person has a choice to either go look at pornography/satisfy themselves/cheat, or just wait it out and be cool with it. Any healthy marriage should have no problem whatsoever just waiting it out.
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mommamaree
Guest
I wasn’t asking you why you need to abstain. I was saying that the “why” is important to acknowledge. I am sorry if you thought I was prying. I truly wasn’t.Sometimes he’s out of town, sometimes I’m out of town, sometimes I’m ill, sometimes he’s ill, sometimes we had a fight, sometimes he’s tired, sometimes I’m tired, sometimes he’s too stressed, sometimes I’m too stressed… and of course, there was that time I had my surgery and was untouchable for 2 weeks.
It’s very normal for couples to have to abstain a number of times each month. It’s just a reality. Of course, during these times the person has a choice to either go look at pornography/satisfy themselves/cheat, or just wait it out and be cool with it. Any healthy marriage should have no problem whatsoever just waiting it out.
And I do not disagree with anything you have said here. It is reality. Abstinence happens all the time, whether it is purposefully undertaken or just a fact of the moment. In fact, we are abstaining right now…er…at least I know that I am.
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Debora123
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Lol, no problem.
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LJN21
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A healthy marriage still has any number of fissure and issues. That is kind of the point, you don’t know where the weakness are until your challenged in some way. Over coming those challenges is what gives you blessings and makes you a better person and your marriage stronger. Just because you don’t have a problem right now, doesn’t mean later on you might find major obstacles.It’s very normal for couples to have to abstain a number of times each month. It’s just a reality. Of course, during these times the person has a choice to either go look at pornography/satisfy themselves/cheat, or just wait it out and be cool with it.** Any healthy marriage should have no problem whatsoever just waiting it out**.
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ValPal
Guest
That was not my intent if you interpreted it like that. I am dead serious…if it works for you, then I am happy for you. However, it does not work that way for everyone.
I can also provide my provide mine. Everytime I’ve had to practice abstinence during marriage it has ALWAYS been in in extremely negative circumstances and had extremely negative consequences. It happened in my first marriage when my wife was cheating. A divorce and annulment followed. It also happened in my second marriage as a result of extreme financial and communication breakdown. IMHO, actually having marital relations would have resulted in a much quicker resolutions to the problems. That’s because we really love each other, and the bonding would’ve broke down the walls that we had put up against each other.
Just for clarification, my discussions on this particular issue are framed in the context of a sacramental Catholic marriage. The reason is that outside of that frame of reference, NFP/abstinence obviously don’t apply. Non-Catholics naturally can practice that, but it’s simply a personal choice having nothing to do with religion.
They are one and the same. If a person cannot complete the sexual act, they cannot receive the sacrament of marriage…period, the end. It is a diriment impediment.
I have tons of experience also, having been married to two extraordinarily different individuals, one Catholic, and one not, through all sorts of various difficulties. I’m sharing my experiences; you’re sharing yours. Neither is right; neither is wrong…this is starting to sound like Charles Dickens…lol
In my own case, I’ve been through a lot, and abstinence has NEVER made the situation better…it’s always made it worse.
One theme that seems to be common through many of these threads is that abstinence helps solve problems. My wife and I don’t have these problems (note: the one time we had a major problem had to do with a cumulation of events…the primary problem being we were ripped off tens of thousands of dollars at a time when we were adopting which also cost $20K). There are three ways to solve problems: Communication, communication, and communication.
The marital act for us is simply that apex of our love for each other, only possible though the sacrament of marriage. All of our actions within marriage, in fact, are a preparation for this holy, spiritual, and blissful bonding. I don’t want to get to graphic, but many on this forum have talked about how woman don’t experience their bliss at the same time as men. Well, my wife and I do. That simply isn’t going to happen in a situation where a husband and wife view sex as a physical act and abstinence solves problems…I’ve already been there and done that.
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ValPal
Guest
I actually hate discussing this because it is embarrassing and shameful for myself, but I will do so just in case someone is paying attention. I had a problem with this issue. It is the sacramental bonding with my utterly wonderful and beautiful wife that ended this problem, and for reasons I stated earlier. The marital relations I have with my wife are spiritual in nature. If sex is simply viewed as a physical act, this problem will be very difficult to solve, since sex is just another way to “get off.” However, if it is spiritual in nature, everything changes. The spiritual bliss of sacramental marital relations cannot be satisfied with any physical stimulation. When you actually start feeling like a spiritual being, bad physical habits such as this become repulsive.
That’s why that “abstinence is a blessing” message is not resonating with me. To me, it means shunning my spiritual nature, resulting in being tempted with my physical nature.
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Debora123
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