NFP leading to marriage break-up

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Look, I can see the sense of what you all are saying in my case, but not hers. I am a Christian open to the teaching of the Church- her husband is not (at least not that i know of).

I think of Jesus not obeying the commandment for observing the Sabbath. That was a direct commandment of God. Jesus showed that we are no longer under the Law, right? Because of my protestant background, this Catholic law, required regardless of the circumstances, sounds a lot like “the law” of the Pharases.

I understand you all defending the Church’s postition. But I ask you this: if her husband were to leave her because he was not Christian and did not want to make his “marital act” a sacrament, as you state, should this woman still neglect her husbands wishes over fear of commiting a sin? I ask the woman, do you feel that God is leading you to not fulfill the wishes of your husband? If so, don’t do it. But if it’s merely out of fear of the Church’s rules on Mortal Sins, I’d think long and hard before you sacrifice your merriage.

Again, I’m not professing to be an expert. I’m just a believer of Christ trying to follow his will. I worry though, that you are all being way too hard on this husband. I confess, I may be very wrong on this. But I wonder, would jesus condem you for this behavior if done for love of your husband? Seriously, I don’t see that Jesus in the gospel.
 
I just read that this man has been commiting adultery. I’m so sorry. I will pray for you, him, and your children tonight.

In humitiy, I have to rethink MY beliefs. Seems that a little abstinance might have done him good. I’m still glad to post though, so we/I can see my Protestant based beliefs in light of the truth.
 
Agatha Lucy,

You, your children, and even your husband are in my prayers at this heartbreaking time. I will especially be praying for strength and courage for you.
 
Agatha, I am very sorry for your situation.

I pray that you are comforted by God who is all loving and all knowing of all our troubles. I hope you are also comforted to see God using your terrible situation to open the minds of others and touch our hearts so that we can appreciate our wives, husbands, and love ones more.

I also want to quote freerf’s post who shows an openness to the depth of God’s love through the teaching of the Church. By reading your story, I hope freerf, myself, and all men come to appreciate our wives as gifts form God and never to think of our wives in selfish ways again. While we are weak and my fail at times, may we grow deeper in love each day.
freerf said:
I just read that this man has been commiting adultery. I’m so sorry. I will pray for you, him, and your children tonight.

In humitiy, I have to rethink MY beliefs. Seems that a little abstinance might have done him good. I’m still glad to post though, so we/I can see my Protestant based beliefs in light of the truth.
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freerf said:
I understand you all defending the Church’s postition. But I ask you this: if her husband were to leave her because he was not Christian and did not want to make his “marital act” a sacrament, as you state, should this woman still neglect her husbands wishes over fear of commiting a sin?
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I posted this before but I’ll post it again. According to Catholic teaching, it IS a sin for HER to use contraception, but if her spouse wishes to use contraception, this is not a sin for her. So no one is forced to do anything they don’t wish to do.

My prayers are with her at this very difficult time.
 
As a man who went through and survived a mid-life crisis I would offer that God used my own bouts with porn and masturbation to call me to him. While I never had an affair with another woman, it was only the thought that I might lose the woman of my dreams (my wife) and God’s grace that finally cracked open my ego and led me to seek spiritual counseling and a spiritual group meeting. In the end God used the strength of my sex drive to tame my ego and ignite my faith and inward journey. Sometimes God uses our greatest weaknesses and sin to reveal himself to us. I also have 4 children and am madly in love and committed to my wife of 26 years.

You might consider Alanon or another 12-step support group to get through this. In the end the only person you can control and take care of is you. As you find healthy ways to love yourself, that love will shine through and benefit your children and possibly even your husband. Be patient…the male ego is a tough egg to crack…
 
Agatha, I will be offering prayers and sacrifices for you and your husband this Holy Week. I wanted to let you know that I agree with and would advise everything MamaJewel posted. Until someone experiences betrayal by their spouse, there is no way to know the pain involved.

I personally have not experienced this in my marriage, but in this past year my father betrayed my mother - his wife of 40 years - with a woman who was my friend/my age…so I have been very involved in helping my mom through this horrible situation. Plus, I felt very betrayed since my father’s affair was with my friend and has destroyed 2 families, as he has decided to live his life with this other woman. And my sister also has experienced infidelity in her marriage, so I have learned a lot without actually living it.

As Mama Jewel said, you likely do not have all of the truth yet, but you need to protect yourself and your children. Please remember to respect yourself and that God will carry you through this.

There are many good resources out there, look for Catholic counseling first, but there are good non Catholic Christian resources too. This is not Catholic, but Dr. Dobson’s “Love Must Be Tough” I think is excellent for helping you be strong and maintain your self-respect throughout this time. And there is a Christian counseling center - The Affair Recover Center - with telephone counseling and retreats available that has helped my mom a lot. Again it is not Catholic but very dedicated to saving marriages and provides resources to help you know you are not alone in your struggles.

Remember God is in control and will use all to the good, even when we don’t understand. Please take care of yourself.
jrb
 
Been reading all this silently and with interest. MamaJewel, I’m sorry you were slammed like you were. You know the drill. Adultery was my first thought too. The man who used to agree with his wife all of a sudden becoming “bored” and needing a “night out with the boys” and coming back after drinking and “working late” (hahahahahaha! Was she that much WORK??) And it all becomes YOUR fault because YOU are too religious. He changed the rules you had been following for years. HE doesn’t want more kids… and now YOU have to change YOUR morals to keep a man who doesn’t keep his own vows?

BE GLAD YOU NEVER COMPROMISED YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD TO HANG ONTO A MAN WHO DOES NOT LOVE YOU LIKE YOU LOVED HIM.

He has mid-life crisis written all over him. I told one person once who was commenting on NFP that “when a man makes full use of the 21 days of infertility and is still unsatisfied, THEN he can complain about the other 7.” I suspect your husband has been too busy with “work” to spend much time with you at all.

He was using it as an excuse. And ironically it comes at a time when YOUR natural fertility is winding down.

YOU get your own counselling. To decide if you want to repair this. Get your lawyer. He has admitted adultery. In some states that matters in deciding settlements.

I know it’s hard for you to contemplate life alone. Many of us have been forced into it and have survived (kind of). Unless he sees the light… you may have to. Suspend sexual relations with him. Get tested for STDs. Do not resume relations with him until his affair has been over for 3 months and he has been tested. Or you’re having relations with everyone the tramp had been having relations with also.

I suspect some of those boys nights out were with the woman. And a man who works all the time like that probably has some deep distrust in his relationship with God and any sense that God will take care of you all as well.

He has a deep spiritual problem. Among other things.

It wasn’t you. Really. You are an exemplary wife and mother who was doing what you were supposed to do. HE failed. He failed you and he failed your children. He has taught your daughters himself that they have no reason to expect fidelity from their own husbands. He has taught his sons how to behave like a hound dog. And he has dishonored them by treating their mother shabbily.

To the non-Catholics who don’t understand… reread the post about the canary in the well. This is a man who refused to learn sexual self control. Just because you like it and you want it doesn’ t mean you have a right to it. That goes for the woman at the office or the clerk at the supermarket too.

NFP is about putting our own desires in the proper perspective and learning mastery of our own desires for the good of the other and of the family unity. This man clearly wanted all the fun and none of the responsibility. He didn’t put his needs behind the needs of his family.

And I understand the double sense of betrayal after using NFP. My marriage wasn’t supposed to be one of the ones that failed.

But in the end I can see that I did not participate in helping my husband’s lack of self control with my own actions. That was HIS problem, not one I perpetuated. I certainly had to practice self control. And I can face my God on judgement day with a clear conscience that I lived what I taught my children and I was faithful to God even as my husband was not faithful to any of his vows.

I’m sorry for what you’re going through.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
He has mid-life crisis written all over him…
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This I agree with. A man’s sexual drive is often used by God to transform him - it’s about the only thing strong enough to break his ego. To my mind the most loving thing you can do is take care of yourself and by so doing continue to take care of your children. While it appears your faith is strong, you will no doubt have to navigate the intense emotions involved in the situation. You do not have to do it alone…get help, find a support group, and pray constantly for knowledge of God’s will and the courage to act on it and accept it.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (in me), courage to change the things I can (in me) and wisdom to know the difference. Peace.
 
Hi Agatha Lucy! What a beautiful name!

I didn’t have time to read 5 pages of posts on this topic, so sorry if I’m repeating what someone has already said.

Evidently, the NFP/ABC issue is a symptom… it is not the main issue. A reality check for most of the ultra conservative participants in these forums would also have everyone agree that it could be part of the problem as well.

What I suggest is go deeper to find the true issues… boredom, isolation, vulnerability… there are many ignored issues that need to be address.

If I were you I would find your local Worldwide Marriage Encounter group and go on a weekend retreat with them… it will be such a uniting eye-opener for the two of you. This will help address the real. If things are really bad, perhaps contact Retrouvaille, which is the same deal just for more delicate marriage situations.

By thus addressing the deeper issues you can also do some superficial things to give your husband hope… he is a workaholic because he is escaping the real life (family/marriage). Dress up sexy and do some wild things for him and you will see the ice break and him more energetic and eager to fix things than you could ever imagine.

Follow your heart and don’t get too stuck up on the moral sexual minefield that so many people here like laying for each other.

God bless!
 
Agatha_Lucy said:
Last weekend my husband of nearly 15 years announced that he was very unhappy and felt trapped.

As things have unfolded over the last few days, it emerges that a major factor for him is his frustration with using NFP and having our marital relations curtailed in that way. A bigger issue is that he feels I’m ‘too religious’ and ‘too square’ in that I disapprove of him staying out late and getting drunk (not that he does that very often, in fairness).

We have four children and his view is that we’ve done our but about being open to life and in his ideal scenario he would have me go on the pill (a non-abortifacient version).

There’s no way I can agree to that but I’m very afraid that this might be the end of our marriage. I’m tempted to soften my attitude towards, erm, other ways of giving him release during my fertile period.

That is not what I would want in an ideal world, but neither do I want to bring up four children on my own…
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If he feels this way so strongly he should get a vasectomy. The onus of this decision should be on him.
 
I teach NFP and we quickly found out that our attitudes changed when we learned the reason behind the Church’s teachings of sex and marriage.

To ALL couples who are in this struglgle Dr. Popcak wrote a good book “Holy Sex! A Catholic Guide to Toe Curling, Mind blowing infallible Loving”. Its good b/c it gets to the core issues that we balme on sex and helps a couple build a real marriage. Read and grow and seek good counsil that encourages marriage repair not division.

FYI to all :NFP is a decernment tool to be used in marriage not as a form of birth control. Please understand the Church’s teachings on responsible parenting.
 
I wouldn’t post but this seems awfully familiar. I faced a similar crisis with my husband and NFP, although as other posters have pointed out, this is just a symptom. It is NOT the NFP, but it may be the only thing he can point to that seems to be the root of the problem…

If my guy is anything like your guy, then your guy is looking for YOU again. Not the religious, pious, concerned, responsibility laden you, but the girlfriend he fell in love with and married. Think, “how would I treat him if I was his girlfriend?”. Be spontaneous. Be sexy. Take him on dates. Go with him to the bar and get tipsy too. Be creative in the bedroom…(the holy sex book suggestion is a good one). Be his friend again, and please please banish all thought of divorce! That is just poison, poison, poison…don’t even consider it an option.

Unless there is abuse, adultery, or addiction you are in it for the long haul.

My husband and I are doing much better today. We are friends again. We have fun again. And believe it or not, my quiet but no longer in your face Christian witness is helping him deepen his relationship with God, much more than prior arguments ever could. It’s a beautiful thing to see.

Unfortunately, I am notoriously bad at NFP, and we are now expecting a 5th child though I just turned 40. :o Ah well. Our relationship is good enough now that we are pulling together rather than apart despite this little surprise.

Work on sexy. It will completely transform him, I promise.
 
@Magdelaine, I don’t know if you read my post which said that my husband has committed adultery. In that context, it’s going to be a while before I can ‘work on sexy’… But I take your point in general.

Thanks everyone for your comments and most of all for your prayers. There is hope. We’re looking at going on a Retrouvaille weekend. There are various practical obstacles but I’m encouraged that my husband hasn’t dismissed the idea. I hadn’t heard of it before and got the name from this thread so I’m really grateful for that. I’ve also got hold of a Christopher West book but it might be rather too depressing in the current context…
 
Agatha_Lucy said:
@Magdelaine, I don’t know if you read my post which said that my husband has committed adultery. In that context, it’s going to be a while before I can ‘work on sexy’… But I take your point in general.

Thanks everyone for your comments and most of all for your prayers. There is hope. We’re looking at going on a Retrouvaille weekend. There are various practical obstacles but I’m encouraged that my husband hasn’t dismissed the idea. I hadn’t heard of it before and got the name from this thread so I’m really grateful for that. I’ve also got hold of a Christopher West book but it might be rather too depressing in the current context…
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If you are absolutely serious about not only saving your marriage, but moving on into a beautiful fruitful peaceful union, I encourage, and cannot stress enough, for you to both invest in a week at the Theology of the body institute week long class at the same time. This week was the best week of my life, as a single person. You will bathe in God’s mercy and love and it will instill deep inside of you reverence for each other. Please consider it.

www.tobinstitute.org
 
It’s a good sign he’s not hostile to the idea of Retrouvaille. It’s a good program if BOTH people want to really work on it. I wouldn’t wish divorce on anyone. It’s absolutely the last option when there is no hope, especially when children are involved.
 
Agatha_Lucy said:
@Magdelaine, I don’t know if you read my post which said that my husband has committed adultery. In that context, it’s going to be a while before I can ‘work on sexy’… But I take your point in general.

Thanks everyone for your comments and most of all for your prayers. There is hope. We’re looking at going on a Retrouvaille weekend. There are various practical obstacles but I’m encouraged that my husband hasn’t dismissed the idea. I hadn’t heard of it before and got the name from this thread so I’m really grateful for that. I’ve also got hold of a Christopher West book but it might be rather too depressing in the current context…
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My heart is really breaking to read all the advice from people who haven’t read through to your most recent posts. I guess they have good intentions, but it’s still troubling.

My husband and I have seen a tremendous benefit in our marriage from attending Retrouvaille. We weren’t dealing with your specific problems, but I think the program could really help any and all marriages out there. Best wishes to you!
 
Agatha_Lucy said:
@Magdelaine, I don’t know if you read my post which said that my husband has committed adultery. In that context, it’s going to be a while before I can ‘work on sexy’… But I take your point in general.

Thanks everyone for your comments and most of all for your prayers. There is hope. We’re looking at going on a Retrouvaille weekend. There are various practical obstacles but I’m encouraged that my husband hasn’t dismissed the idea. I hadn’t heard of it before and got the name from this thread so I’m really grateful for that. I’ve also got hold of a Christopher West book but it might be rather too depressing in the current context…
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I’m sorry, I didn’t. 😦 That does change the dynamic quite a bit, I’m afraid. You all need to work on being friends again before you will feel safe enough for “sexy”.

I will be praying for you and your family! Big hugs.

This may seem kind of stupid at this point but the book “The proper care and feeding of husbands” by Dr. Laura helped me a LOT too. Before that, I just didn’t understand my guy.

(And a word on what I said about being in it for the long haul unless there is adultery; I would say that this applies to serial or persistent adultery. For good guys, rather than narcissists or sociopaths (and it sounds like your husband is, deep down, a good guy) an affair can be just as much a cry for help and attention as anything.)
 
This is where I go ARRGH! :mad:

The idea that a man hasn’t had his needs met (whatever that means) and the wife somehow isn’t understanding him (“My wife doesn’t understand me” is the biggest cliche men say as they embark on affairs) so his straying is to be expected (implying the woman who is busy taking care of 4 kids is to blame for neglecting HIM.) WHO is taking care of HER needs while she’s taking care of everyone ELSE? SHE doesn’t go out and have an affair!

Something wrong with this picture?
 
Liberanosamalo said:
This is where I go ARRGH! :mad:

The idea that a man hasn’t had his needs met (whatever that means) and the wife somehow isn’t understanding him (“My wife doesn’t understand me” is the biggest cliche men say as they embark on affairs) so his straying is to be expected (implying the woman who is busy taking care of 4 kids is to blame for neglecting HIM.) WHO is taking care of HER needs while she’s taking care of everyone ELSE? SHE doesn’t go out and have an affair!

Something wrong with this picture?
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Gosh, I would never have written what I did unless I had been “selfish” myself. Oh yeah, to look at me, I was a saint. I read the Bible, took the kids to Church, kept the house, cooked, took care of his dirty underwear and his dirty bathroom.

But I forgot to smile at him and give him a hug and a kiss when he came home for the day instead of unloading my burdens on him. I was very often “too tired” for sex, and forget about being fun, playful, or even laughing at his teasing or jokes.

It was hard work for me to change what I had been doing for so long. After all, I didn’t feel supported either. It’s not like he was a romantic bundle of sunshine when he came home, in fact it was just the opposite. Who was going to give me mine?

Well, thankfully through scripture and a little advice from Dr. Laura, I could see what I had been doing wrong. I finally understood what it was he needed - and it wasn’t what I thought. The breakthrough for us came when I made him the true head of the family again, and that meant in the bedroom too.

I do not want to imply that this is what Agnes should do; although there are many clues (like the workaholic, depressed, withdrawn man she described) that tell me I’ve read the dynamic right. I’m only sharing my own experiences as a selfish, saintly wife.
 
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