NFP marketing, is promoting it right?

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ByWhatAuthority said:
NFP is church teaching? Are you sure about that? I thought the Church always taught that married couples must be open to having babies. NFP/abstinence was mentioned as a solution to “grave or serious reasons” to prevent a possible pregnancy.
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Yes, and that’s Church teaching.
 
Laura_N said:
The church never said “let God decide how many children you have.” Humane Vitae never changed either, just the translation into English. The earlier English translations used the word “grave” the more recent ones use the word “just”, which is a more accurate translation.
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The Church has always taught that children are blessings to be lovingly accepted by God.
Did the translators also get the word “serious” wrong?
 
You directed your comment to the mother of seven children. Do you seriously think we were not open to life?
 
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TheAmazingGrace said:
Most fertile married couples can’t afford 5, 10 or 15 children in this day and age. Should that preclude them from getting married and having children at all?
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Most people can’t afford children. I would not exist today if my parents were practicing "responsible parenthood " by today’s new catholic standards.
 
The Church didn’t teach that couples should accept children lovingly from God?
 
I never questioned your openness to children. Geesh! I was asking a general question.
 
AdamPeter said:
It used to be taught that God decided the number of children a married couple would be blessed with.

Yeah…but the Church never taught that you should just keep poppin em out with no consideration as to whether you could cope or provide for them.
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Wow! I find your post to be very offensive to those that are open to accept as many blessings God gives them! God provides when we do His will. I’m so glad my mom and dad didn’t have your philosophy.
 
1ke said:
I thought the Church always taught that married couples must be open to having babies.

What the Church actually teaches is that each act of intecourse must be per se ordered towards unity and procreation.
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That’s right. Psycho analyzing every marital act so as not to have an oops baby was not the Churches teaching in the past.
 
It’s only offensive if you want it to be.

There’s a difference between being open to God’s will and knowing that you can’t cope with another child right now.The Church never had a teaching that couples, regardless of their circumstances or income, had to keep having babies.

That is just a fact.
 
AdamPeter said:
the Church never taught that you should just keep poppin em out…
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No… I think most people with large families would find what you wrote to be very offensive. And you are wrong. The Church has always taught that children are blessings to be lovingly accepted by God.
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
No… I think most people with large families would find what you wrote to be very offensive. And you are wrong. The Church has always taught that children are blessings to be lovingly accepted by God.
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Well…I’m from a large family and I don’t think it’s offensive. I also plan to have a large family so don’t know what you’re going on about.

You selectively quoted me. I specifically said the Church never taught that you HAVE to keep having babies no matter what. It always taught prudence in this area.
 
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Please show me where the pre NFP church taught that couples should be "prudent " in regards to regulating the numbers of children they had. Maybe I’ve been wrong this whole time about the Churches teaching on the matter? That accepting children as blessings (no matter the number God wants to bless you with) was something married couples had to promise to do.
 
Catholic Marriage vows say we must “accept children lovingly from God.” It doesn’t go on to say but only if you can afford them. Or are stressed out. Or whatever. There are no BUTS in regards to this issue when we make our vows. I understand allowing the use of NFP if it’s for a grave or serious reason, but this, we can’t afford it business, is taking it too far, imo. There are many people born into poverty and really have to struggle but that doesn’t mean they should not exist. And their parents were not irresponsible by the Churches standards in the past. Seems to me that things have changed. And as I said before, it is evidenced by the lack of large families in the pews of most Churches. And also by statements like “just keep poppin em out”.

It’s not NFP so much as it’s the philosophy that seems to have undermined the teaching that Catholics should be open to having children.
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
It’s not NFP so much as it’s the philosophy that seems to have undermined the teaching that Catholics should be open to having children.
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There is no philosophy that says we shouldn’t be open to having children. But the Church diid downgrade the language from “grave” to “just”. A grave reason would be: My wife could die if she get’s pregnant again"

Just is something with less gravity but is stil serious.

The Church prettymuch allows each couple to decide between themselves. A couple will have to stand before God and justify these descisions anyway so don’t stress yourself about it.

I would ask you to provide me with the Church teaching that says you must blindly just have loads of kids and hope for the best?
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
It’s not NFP so much as it’s the philosophy that seems to have undermined the teaching that Catholics should be open to having children.
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How does the use of Natural Family Planning fit into a “philosophy that seems to have undermined the teaching that Catholics should be open to having children”?
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
Catholic Marriage vows say we must “accept children lovingly from God.” It doesn’t go on to say but only if you can afford them. Or are stressed out. Or whatever. There are no BUTS in regards to this issue when we make our vows. I understand allowing the use of NFP if it’s for a grave or serious reason, but this, we can’t afford it business, is taking it too far, imo.
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Marriage vows also don’t say the couple has to have babies at any certain interval, or that there is some magic number at which point a couple can be considered to be open to life.
It sounds like you are trying to turn “opennes to life” into some mathematical concept and have kinda set yourself up as the judge for the standard? Let’s just let the Church teach us instead what it had always understood.

You’ll never find any Church document that prescribes the timeliness of childbearing for couples or sets some number of children that constitutes an openness to life. What you WILL find however, is this:

“After mature examination, we have decided that such spouses should not be disturbed [or disquieted], provided they do nothing that impedes generation" (TheologIia Moral by J Montanchez, quoting the Magisterial response to Bishop of Amiens, France at the Sacred Penitentiary in 1853)

You might also see this: “ …all pressures brought to bear in limiting the freedom of couples in deciding about children constitute a grave offence against human dignity and justice" (Pope JPII, Homily In Perth (Australia) Apostolic Pilgrimage to Bangladesh, et. al., November 30, 1996.).

You will also find, in the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, the following: “ The judgment concerning the interval of time between births, and that regarding the number of children, belongs to the spouses alone. This is one of their inalienable rights, to be exercised before God with due consideration of their obligations towards themselves, their children already born, the family and society…” (CSDC, 234).
 
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