Nightmare marriage to Asperger Syndrome Spouse - can I get annulment?

[90Domer]

I have Aspergers myself. It makes socialization a bit hard, but if you can master it; which is hard, you can honestly and truly make many friends. Have I mastered it yet? No, but I’m working on it. The key is prayer, trust in God, and a duty to yourself and others to improve. Making broad sweeps will generally get someone fire and brimstone in reply. We are to look at people as individuals, not absolutes, or statistics. While I may be in disagreement with you about what you’ve said, and even a little hurt, I’ll still pray for your situation.

All the best wishes,

Jack

Beautiful response. God bless you!

 

[90Domer]

It seems, as another poster said, her husband may also be a narcissist. Unfortunately, the OP seems to have decided that everyone with AS is like that. That’s a serious mischaracterization of AS, and very sad. Even sadder is that she’s trying to spread her misunderstandings.

The real issue is whether she should leave her husband and try to get an annulment. No one is required to stay in an abusive marriage. Whether she can get an annulment is a question that none of us here can answer. The sooner she speaks to a priest, the better.

Amen. I agree. I just hate it when people are lumped into a diagnosis, especially if that diagnosis has not been made by a competent medical professional.

I will pray for her situation and those hurt by these assumptions.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I would be happy to share mutual references with you, as I do not agree with your assessment. Generalized comments like this set the quest for genuine understanding and acceptance back 25 years.

The OP has been given the correct answer to this question many times. In fact I think we all agree that the answer of “talk to your priest” is the right one. But the OP has flamed the fire with some judgmental and odd statements herself, showing a lack of understanding of mental illness and wanting to justify herself. All the while shunning any responsibility.

Education and correct counseling would be beneficial. I’d get my money back from the 6 therapists she has been to.

Again. I see this many times online. Someone comes on, tells a tale about some sort of situation (usually a spouse) That they have no fault in and are completely blindsided with. Then, a group of people join with the poster in attacks and advice about situations they know nothing about. Attacking characters, souls, and people they don’t even know, on situations they heard about from about the most biased source you can find. (Usually a hurt spouse.)

I could template the responses that we should be giving

1. If there is real abuse, physical or otherwise. Get out. File Charges, and get some immediate help yourself because you either were completely abused by someone or you also participated in it. Either way professional help and legal recourse is a necessity.
2. Talk to your priest and the Church about your marriage and what you should do.
3. Ask yourself how this happened so you can be proactive in changing the only person that has power over the situation. You.

The fact is that she cannot “change” him. She can only change her. And she must get to that point where she can be honest with herself about the reality of the situation. And no one has also addressed the obvious thing here. If he is as described. She MUST never let him be alone with their child. She may get an annulment, she may get a divorce, but if a man is so dangerous, so far gone, so horrible as she describes then she has a moral imperative to protect the MOST innocent person in this situation.
If he is this bad in a marriage, imagine how much he will emotionally abuse her while dealing with custodial issues.

How in the world did this adoption happen? Did she not tell anyone about their problems? Most adoptions I know involve painful, long and very thorough processes with extensive follow up. Unless it was private. Then the issue of the incompetency of the state comes in.

Perhaps CPS should be involved.

Somehow I think it is not as drastic as that…

 

[90Domer]

The OP has been given the correct answer to this question many times. In fact I think we all agree that the answer of “talk to your priest” is the right one. But the OP has flamed the fire with some judgmental and odd statements herself, showing a lack of understanding of mental illness and wanting to justify herself. All the while shunning any responsibility.

Education and correct counseling would be beneficial. I’d get my money back from the 6 therapists she has been to.

Again. I see this many times online. Someone comes on, tells a tale about some sort of situation (usually a spouse) That they have no fault in and are completely blindsided with. Then, a group of people join with the poster in attacks and advice about situations they know nothing about. Attacking characters, souls, and people they don’t even know, on situations they heard about from about the most biased source you can find. (Usually a hurt spouse.)

I could template the responses that we should be giving

1. If there is real abuse, physical or otherwise. Get out. File Charges, and get some immediate help yourself because you either were completely abused by someone or you also participated in it. Either way professional help and legal recourse is a necessity.
2. Talk to your priest and the Church about your marriage and what you should do.
3. Ask yourself how this happened so you can be proactive in changing the only person that has power over the situation. You.

The fact is that she cannot “change” him. She can only change her. And she must get to that point where she can be honest with herself about the reality of the situation. And no one has also addressed the obvious thing here. If he is as described. She MUST never let him be alone with their child. She may get an annulment, she may get a divorce, but if a man is so dangerous, so far gone, so horrible as she describes then she has a moral imperative to protect the MOST innocent person in this situation.

Somehow I think it is not as drastic as that…

I think you are right on, and thank you for trying to get my panties out of a wad.

Personally, any man or woman in an abusive marriage should seek refuge and then talk to a priest ASAP. Yes, that is the best answer. To otherwise plead your case by maligning a group of people with a said disability is, IMHO, not a good thing to do. If some people knew the misconceptions I have had to overcome to help my son, they would understand the pain of incorrect generalizations.

Visiting your great state this weekend! South Bend to be exact.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think you are right on, and thank you for trying to get my panties out of a wad.

Personally, any man or woman in an abusive marriage should seek refuge and then talk to a priest ASAP. Yes, that is the best answer. To otherwise plead your case by maligning a group of people with a said disability is, IMHO, not a good thing to do. If some people knew the misconceptions I have had to overcome to help my son, they would understand the pain of incorrect generalizations.

Visiting your great state this weekend! South Bend to be exact.

Go Irish!
I wouldn’t call it a great state, I’ll go so far as to call it one of 50 states. I’m here under duress.

 

[Eleanor61]

I happen to be a male with Aspergers and know other people with Aspergers. One can have Aspergers and be a fake. However, Aspergers does not make someone deceive until marriage. Evil people deceive until marriage. A man might even deceive to get a green card (it is not unheard of).

I am a woman with Aspergers, married 31 years. I do think the fact that your husband married for a green card is a lot more relevant to your question than that he has Aspergers. I also have a grown son with Aspergers and it is very unlikely that he could so misrepresent himself as you describe. A person with poor social skills is unlikely to be manipulative and charming, even for a short time. There is a reason so many people with Aspergers take issue with this portrayal.

 

[agnes_therese]

A person with poor social skills is unlikely to be manipulative and charming, even for a short time.

Thank you, that’s exactly what I was trying to figure out how to say. You’ve hit the nail right on the head.

 

[90Domer]

Go Irish!
I wouldn’t call it a great state, I’ll go so far as to call it one of 50 states. I’m here under duress.

Thank you, kind sir! (I usually get the opposite sentiments.)

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Thank you, kind sir! (I usually get the opposite sentiments.)

Don’t know why people are such haters. They are my favorite team that plays on a green field.

“Play like your fake girlfriend died today.”

 

[LongingSoul]

Running Dude & MJJean – Thank you for your kind supportive words and for acknowledging that no one should stay in an abusive marriage (especially when abusive spouse is unwilling to make lasting change). Your posts helped dismiss the sadness and frustration I was feeling for receiving some unexpected antagonistic & unhelpful posts.

I think peoples discomfort lies in the cart being put before the horse. Your focus on annulment at this point makes it seem like it is factoring into whether you will divorce or not. The decision to divorce should solely depend on whether your marriage is intolerably abusive to both yourself and your daughter, regardless of whether you could get a subsequent annulment. As someone said earlier, often times this scenario arises when there is already someone or even the thought of someone, in the wings whereby you are somewhat invested in making your husband seem irredeemably intolerable.

If the marriage is dangerous to you and your daughter physically or emotionally, that should alone determine whether you stay or go, regardless of your future options.

That’s the source of the discomfort that I experienced in your story. You need to forget about the annulment aspect until the you’ve fully acted on the divorce for the right reasons.

 

[joy0602]

**I think peoples discomfort lies in the cart being put before the horse. Your focus on annulment at this point makes it seem like it is factoring into whether you will divorce or not. The decision to divorce should solely depend on whether your marriage is intolerably abusive to both yourself and your daughter, regardless of whether you could get a subsequent annulment. As someone said earlier, often times this scenario arises when there is already someone or even the thought of someone, in the wings whereby you are somewhat invested in making your husband seem irredeemably intolerable.

If the marriage is dangerous to you and your daughter physically or emotionally, that should alone determine whether you stay or go, regardless of your future options.

That’s the source of the discomfort that I experienced in your story. You need to forget about the annulment aspect until the you’ve fully acted on the divorce for the right reasons**.

BINGO!

 

[MJJean]

This is the first time I have heard the term putative marriage. I am not trying to be belligerent, sorry if it comes across that way. I do not question the Church’s authority.

If you don’t question the Church’s authority then what is the problem with annulments and legitimacy? Not being snarky, if we were talking that would be said in a questioning tone

The Church extensively investigates marriages to determine if the couple properly entered into a valid marriage when they spoke their vows. If an annulment is granted it is because the Church tribunals (each case is reviewed by two separate tribunals) determined the marriage was not valid. Once a marriage is declared invalid, both parties are free to marry if they wish.

As someone in the process of an annulment I can assure you the Church will get all of the painful details. The questions asked are quite extensive. Everything from parents and familial relationships to early childhood to the courtship of the couple to the reasons for marriage to the behaviors of each during marriage including in bed and on and on.

My annulment application was 19 pages when I printed it out to submit to my priest for review and forwarding to the tribunal. Would probably have been 40+ pages had I opted to hand write.

In addition, I had to provide the names and contact info for no less than 5 witnesses who knew both myself and my former spouse before and during the early part of our marriage that they will send questionnaires to and possibly interview by phone. My ex wil alos be contacted the same way as the witnesses to give his view.

I was also asked to submit any psychological counseling records pertaining to the marriage as well as any arrest records, police reports, paperwork from child support agencies and so on.

And I may be asked to have a psychological evaluation done.

As an add-on to all of the above, they Church may decide to restrict me from marrying within the Church for a period of time if they believe that I have unresolved issues that would prevent me from validly re-marrying. If I were to be restricted from re-marrying, I would not be able to re-marry in the Church without proving to the tribunal my issue was resolved and I can validly contract a marriage.

The Catholic church takes marriage and annulment very seriously and they do not use their authority to loose or bind without making sure that they are making the correct decision according to Church law.

The Church is also very clear that children born of annulled marriages are NOT illegitimate.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

If you don’t question the Church’s authority then what is the problem with annulments and legitimacy? Not being snarky, if we were talking that would be said in a questioning tone

The Church extensively investigates marriages to determine if the couple properly entered into a valid marriage when they spoke their vows. If an annulment is granted it is because the Church tribunals (each case is reviewed by two separate tribunals) determined the marriage was not valid. Once a marriage is declared invalid, both parties are free to marry if they wish.

As someone in the process of an annulment I can assure you the Church will get all of the painful details. The questions asked are quite extensive. Everything from parents and familial relationships to early childhood to the courtship of the couple to the reasons for marriage to the behaviors of each during marriage including in bed and on and on.

My annulment application was 19 pages when I printed it out to submit to my priest for review and forwarding to the tribunal. Would probably have been 40+ pages had I opted to hand write.

In addition, I had to provide the names and contact info for no less than 5 witnesses who knew both myself and my former spouse before and during the early part of our marriage that they will send questionnaires to and possibly interview by phone. My ex wil alos be contacted the same way as the witnesses to give his view.

I was also asked to submit any psychological counseling records pertaining to the marriage as well as any arrest records, police reports, paperwork from child support agencies and so on.

And I may be asked to have a psychological evaluation done.

As an add-on to all of the above, they Church may decide to restrict me from marrying within the Church for a period of time if they believe that I have unresolved issues that would prevent me from validly re-marrying. If I were to be restricted from re-marrying, I would not be able to re-marry in the Church without proving to the tribunal my issue was resolved and I can validly contract a marriage.

The Catholic church takes marriage and annulment very seriously and they do not use their authority to loose or bind without making sure that they are making the correct decision according to Church law.

The Church is also very clear that children born of annulled marriages are NOT illegitimate.

There was a time in the recent past that some may have had the opinion that the Church was playing fast and loose with annulments. I have heard the term “rubber stamp” used. But I firmly believe that the Church is correcting that image, if it ever was a problem.

 

[KrazyKat]

If you don’t question the Church’s authority then what is the problem with annulments and legitimacy? Not being snarky, if we were talking that would be said in a questioning tone

The Church extensively investigates marriages to determine if the couple properly entered into a valid marriage when they spoke their vows. If an annulment is granted it is because the Church tribunals (each case is reviewed by two separate tribunals) determined the marriage was not valid. Once a marriage is declared invalid, both parties are free to marry if they wish.

As someone in the process of an annulment I can assure you the Church will get all of the painful details. The questions asked are quite extensive. Everything from parents and familial relationships to early childhood to the courtship of the couple to the reasons for marriage to the behaviors of each during marriage including in bed and on and on.

My annulment application was 19 pages when I printed it out to submit to my priest for review and forwarding to the tribunal. Would probably have been 40+ pages had I opted to hand write.

In addition, I had to provide the names and contact info for no less than 5 witnesses who knew both myself and my former spouse before and during the early part of our marriage that they will send questionnaires to and possibly interview by phone. My ex wil alos be contacted the same way as the witnesses to give his view.

I was also asked to submit any psychological counseling records pertaining to the marriage as well as any arrest records, police reports, paperwork from child support agencies and so on.

And I may be asked to have a psychological evaluation done.

As an add-on to all of the above, they Church may decide to restrict me from marrying within the Church for a period of time if they believe that I have unresolved issues that would prevent me from validly re-marrying. If I were to be restricted from re-marrying, I would not be able to re-marry in the Church without proving to the tribunal my issue was resolved and I can validly contract a marriage.

The Catholic church takes marriage and annulment very seriously and they do not use their authority to loose or bind without making sure that they are making the correct decision according to Church law.

The Church is also very clear that children born of annulled marriages are NOT illegitimate.

Thank you for explaining this process. It is obvious now that this is not taken lightly by the Church or the people trying to do the right thing.

I don’t fully understand fully all there is to know about the Catholic Church, they cannot cover everything in Catechism classes but I do not question Church authority. That is why when it comes to church law I just respond like the Nuns answered some of our questions; “because Mother Church says so”.

Another poster mentioned punative law which explains that the time spent together is not sin.

I never meant to offend anyone. I am sorry if it came across that way.

 

[Allegra]

I think peoples discomfort lies in the cart being put before the horse. Your focus on annulment at this point makes it seem like it is factoring into whether you will divorce or not. The decision to divorce should solely depend on whether your marriage is intolerably abusive to both yourself and your daughter, regardless of whether you could get a subsequent annulment. As someone said earlier, often times this scenario arises when there is already someone or even the thought of someone, in the wings whereby you are somewhat invested in making your husband seem irredeemably intolerable.

If the marriage is dangerous to you and your daughter physically or emotionally, that should alone determine whether you stay or go, regardless of your future options.

That’s the source of the discomfort that I experienced in your story. You need to forget about the annulment aspect until the you’ve fully acted on the divorce for the right reasons.

This is a really good point. (Except that I think the “discomfort” has to do with exactly what the posters say it does.) THe Church won’t even consider the annullment until the legal divorce is finalized in most cases.

 

[90Domer]

Don’t know why people are such haters. They are my favorite team that plays on a green field.

“Play like your fake girlfriend died today.”

Oh, Notre Dame is one of those teams people love to hate…perhaps their loyal fan base…or some poor representation by Subway Alum? Not sure.

Oh, and I do love Manti Te’o.

 

[Allegra]

Allegra and others who think I am incorrect in my assessment of my situation w/ my Aspie husband you need to visit this site:
faaas.org/otrscp/
If you don’t have time to peruse it – here are a few quick excerpts:

“Ongoing traumatic relationship syndrome (OTRS) or Ongoing Traumatic Relationship Syndrome (OTRS) is a new trauma-based syndrome, which may afflict individuals who undergo chronic, repetitive psychological trauma within the context of an intimate relationship.
Family members of individuals who have social disorders, such as Asperger Syndrome or sociopathy, generally suffer ongoing psychological trauma. The damage is insidious may continue for decades.
OTRS/CP needs to be incorporated in the DSM-5, because most professionals did not receive any training with respect to AS and neurotypical relationships, given its very recent recognition. We also agree that there is no need to blame or stigmatize any individuals for having neurological differences. Families can deal cooperatively with the issues they encounter, utilizing outside help if need be, without blaming and stigmatizing the neurologically different individual.”

I’m not saying that you are incorrect in your assessment of the situation. It does indeed sound like something is not right with your husband and could very well be outside of his control. It just sounds like, based on your description, it is unlikely to be asperger’s syndrome. If you are suffering from an abusive relationships, you should absolutely remove yourself from the situation, regardless of what is causing it. However, in the context of your question regarding whether or not a diagnosis of aspergers is sufficient for a degree of anullment, my answer is that your experience is inconsistant with typical aspergers behavior anyway.

As other posters have mentioned, adult diagnosis can be tricky and sometimes incorrect diagnosis is made. Nothing you’ve mentioned is considered a trait of aspergers and some of the things you mentioned (particularly the ability to disguise an involuntary neurological disorder with charm and sneakiness) are real red flags that you might be dealing with a behavioral disorder and not aspergers. On the other hand, the diagnosis doens’t really have to do with your situation. Either the relationship is abusive or it isn’t. Whatever is causing your husband’s behavior (aspergers, narcissicm, depression, drug abuse etc.) you have every reason to seek a seperation if he is being abusive to you and your child.

The problem is that the mischaracterzation of people with aspergers is offensive to a lot of people in the thread. I mean, frankly, people with aspergers have enough challenges to face without being accused of deceptive behavior that is not only atypical, but in many cases, impossible!

 

[kipperjl]

Her are two reasons in the cannon law that tells you that you might possibly be able to get an annulment. However, it is best to get with you pastor.

Also if there is physical and mental abuse cannon law also says that you can get a divorce and should not stay in this kind of marriage.

Some psychological problems justify the annulment of a marriage. The Church recognizes instances of psychoses such as schizophrenia or manic depression. It also asserts that conditions such as homosexuality and alcoholism often undermine the capacity for a permanent union.

There is the situation when one is psychologically unable to meet one essential criterion of marriage, the close and intimate personal relationship of mutual support and affection. Frequently, this was evident before both parties were married. But this was ignored because one party believe that he/she could “change” the other person during the marriage.

The abuse of alcohol, cannabis or other forms of abuse and violence is hardly compatible with the Church’s definition of marriage as a community of life and love. Such are grounds for an Annulment.

catholicdoors.com/faq/qu79.htm

I too have a daughter with aspberger’s and she is not like that As the person above said it was probably for the green card. However, there lack of social skills can be a problem but my daughter has never been abusive in anyway. I have meet others in here support group and they were not abusive either. However, it could be that he also has other psychological problems along with AS

God Bless your are in my prayers,
Janice K

 

[dockboggs]

Do not to generalize people with Aspergers like that. This is very offensive. Your spouse acted that way. People with Aspergers do NOT fake “loving, outgoing and charming behavior” until we “hook” a spouse. You have made an offensive generalization.

It is one thing to have a bad spouse with Aspergers, but it is another thing to paint you husband’s actions a “typical” Aspergers behavior.

I completely agree. Well said

 

[kipperjl]

It is very hard for a person with aspberger’s to be deceptive. They don’t recognize someone being sarcastic and those don’t recognize people being deceptive or if they are lying about something. At least that is the way my daughter is. He may be bipolar, or sociopath or one of the many other psychological diagnosis’s