Nine Reasons People Aren't Singing in Worship

[johnnyc176]

Personally not to sound mean but when worshiping God and being sincere to Him as a Church, I would not be worried or thinking about “Do I/this service sound like a Protestant one”?

Don’t worry about sounding mean. I can’t hear you. But I can hear when the music at Mass sounds like a protestant service.

 

[The_Serpent]

The nine points have a point. In regards to say the psalm, it was a one man song…King David. So they perhaps don’t easily become group songs. I add that many modern Catholic hymnals include Protestant songs, including some authored by some guy called Martin Luther! I don’t join in those songs, since they are theologically questionable. For, instance when you sing “A Mighty Fortress is our God;” it has a line that states “on earth is not his equal.” Which could be a reference to the Pope or the Eucharist, from a Protestant view. Recently this song was sung in my Church, and I listened to a voice from the Tabernacle correct the song by saying …“On Earth.”

 

[pianistclare]

The nine points have a point. In regards to say the psalm, it was a one man song…King David. So they perhaps don’t easily become group songs. I add that many modern Catholic hymnals include Protestant songs, including some authored by some guy called Martin Luther! I don’t join in those songs, since they are theologically questionable. For, instance when you sing “A Mighty Fortress is our God;” it has a line that states “on earth is not his equal.” Which could be a reference to the Pope or the Eucharist, from a Protestant view. Recently this song was sung in my Church, and I listened to a voice from the Tabernacle correct the song by saying …“On Earth.”

I hear you. We had a pastor that forbid that piece and also The Church’s One Foundation for the same reasons. He 's a Monsignor now, and still contends that those pieces should not ever be published in hymnals marketed for Catholic churches.

 

[Jennifoo]

We just got a wonderful new choir director this past August. He and his wife have lovely voices. My pastor wanted us to learn the ICEL chants for Mass- in English and only occasionally in Latin- as a way of being more faithful to Vatican II which advised that Gregorian Chant be given pride of place. My pastor often chants the Preface and Eucharistic Prayer which I find breathtakingly beautiful. I have a pretty good voice and have been taking voice lessons for several years. One of the reasons I like chant is that it’s easier for those who don’t have vocal training since it is so close to the spoken word and is founded on the principle of relative pitch as opposed to absolute pitch. I’ve also noticed that chant is more middle range as opposed to so many hymns which are geared more toward sopranos.

Our choir director has been very sensitive to the needs of our congregations. He hasn’t changed everything all at once but has had us learn the chants gradually. He has given us links to learn the chants online, which has been fantastic. He also chooses familiar hymns for the processional and recessional so that the congregation won’t feel confused or left out.

Guess what? People are still upset. Most of the seasoned choir members left. My pastor isn’t worried as he knows that change, even gradual, even if it’s toward something better, is often uncomfortable for people. He has a great attitude about it. I love the change. I love the chant.

I don’t know why Catholics don’t like to sing. I read some of the earlier posts on this thread that offer a lot of interesting insights I never thought about before. Thank you.:yyeess:

 

[Bklynguy]

1. Protestants generally put more effort into their worship services. That’s not to say Catholics don’t put any effort - we’ve got quite a good Samoan choir, a Filipino choir, some good musicians and good intentions. But the Protestants make more effort as a rule.

Just curious–why do you think this is? I have noticed this too. My wife is now in RCIA, but have attended Lutheran services with her in the past and I have noticed this too. Everyone…and I mean everyone…in the church sang the hymns. At Mass, I generally notice about 1/5 of the people do, if that.

 

[G_S]

I was Protestant for 47 years. Yes, I love being Catholic, but I miss terribly the joy of singing with full voice and full heart alongside of my Christian brothers and sisters.

If you see evil in that, then…well…why the heck am I Catholic, anyway? I want out. This whole thread and this post are so discouraging and disheartening, it makes me want to cry.

And ah, yes, good sound systems–they’re right up there with coat racks, aren’t they? Unnecessary Protestant innovations.

Cat, my dear sister in Christ,

My comments were clumsily made. My critique of the book Renew was not related to its comments about sound systems. Thank goodness we have them. (Coat racks sound like a good idea too.) When I last attended a service at the Pentecostal church my sister-in-law and her husband founded, I thought to myself, hmm, they sure do emotion better than we do. I have very extensive and on-going experience with Evangelical and Pentecostal churches. One of their recent movements (neither an essential part of Protestantism nor a classical expression of it) is a certain emphasis on church growth that puts growth above almost any other value. In some congregations, doctrine and morals are de-emphasized and razzle-dazzle is emphasized. The book Renew, to some extent, falls into this trap. I have met many Catholics who have said to me that every Catholic parish should introduce all of its recommendations because they work so well. I would suggest we can learn from the book but need to do so critically. God bless you. I’m sorry to have hurt you.

 

[OraLabora]

That’s because, contrary to popular opinion, the vast majority of relatively-commonly-used Latin Gregorian settings (even if we don’t consider Missa de Angelis) are extremely easy to sing when you have several (not even a lot maybe four or five at the minimum) other people supporting you. I even love to sing things like Asperges and Vidi aquam which, while not as easy as the average ordinary setting, are still easy compared to most propers.

But I agree that the Propers are not going to be sung by the people probably but I don’t think they ever were intended to be. I still don’t get the ideological war against the propers though, why the choir can’t sing the one line part of the Introit at the beginning of the procession. What’s the hurt in that? They sang plenty of songs at the installation of Abp. Cupich that I really don’t care for, yet they managed to slip in the “He will make them princes” and it worked very nicely. Why does the attitude often come down to, “THE PEOPLE HAVE TO SING EVERYTHING!!?” I don’t understand that. It just smells bad, you don’t even have to argue against it, and it’s nothing but bad liturgical dogmatism informed by ideology. Have hymns, it doesn’t bother me, but if you’ve got a capable choir, why not sing the propers at their proper places? They’re very short, or can be made to be short (while remaining musically coherent) and they are often leagues better thematically—they are bible quotes almost always after all—than the random hymns typically picked. /rant

During the introit and communion antiphon, the psalm verse is generally fairly easy but is usually, in the monastic tradition, done by a soloist. The schola usually sings the first pass of the introit as the monks process in; then after the verse, the entire choir chants the introit again. As many verses and retakes of the introit as required for the whole community to enter and be seated. Once in a while for a longer introit, the choirmaster will omit the psalm verse (especially for weekday Mass). As you note, most introits are psalm and other Bible verses, and more importantly the verse is coherent with the theme of the day’s readings (which is why the inclusion of Year B, the Gospel of Mark, in the OF Mass created such havoc with the chant repertory, as it was not customary to read it in the EF, so the chant repertoire didn’t have appropriate texts).

For the gradual, the community sings up to the verse, then the schola takes on the verse which is usually more complex; and for most of the mode V graduals, there’s a change of key at the verse. Truly out of the scope of the laity. The alleluia verse is also the domain of the schola, as is the offertory which is usually the most complex chant of the propers.

None of these were ever made to be sung by the laity, though I do sing them at the abbey because I’m an experienced Gregorian chorister. Even most parish choirs will have a hard time which is why the Vatican released the Graduale Simplex some time back, using simple antiphons usually drawn from the Divine Office, and the simple psalm tones for the verses (the psalm tones from the Graduale Romanum use the solemn median and finale). But even that would be beyond the reach of the laity what with all the rules about Latin accentuation for the psalmody and whether it’s a two-accent median or finale, or a one-accent with X number of prep syllables. I teach psalmody to our choir, and it’s a hair-pulling experience getting them to remember all the rules around the accents, and I usually just point the text now, it’s much easier (using italics for the prep syllables, and bold characters for the sung accents-the sung accents can differ from the word accents).

Simple English (or rather vernacular, we Francophones deserve them too!) propers would be better; a local Cistercian abbey has set the French propers to simple tones and it comes off rather well compared to the horrible modern hymns we have.

As for Mass VIII (de Angelis), the less said the better. I’m sick of that setting!!! It isn’t even “Gregorian” chant, it’s neo-Gregorian. There are other settings that have much more subtle beauty.

 

[Cat]

Cat, my dear sister in Christ,

My comments were clumsily made. My critique of the book Renew was not related to its comments about sound systems. Thank goodness we have them. (Coat racks sound like a good idea too.) When I last attended a service at the Pentecostal church my sister-in-law and her husband founded, I thought to myself, hmm, they sure do emotion better than we do. I have very extensive and on-going experience with Evangelical and Pentecostal churches. One of their recent movements (neither an essential part of Protestantism nor a classical expression of it) is a certain emphasis on church growth that puts growth above almost any other value. In some congregations, doctrine and morals are de-emphasized and razzle-dazzle is emphasized. The book Renew, to some extent, falls into this trap. I have met many Catholics who have said to me that every Catholic parish should introduce all of its recommendations because they work so well. I would suggest we can learn from the book but need to do so critically. God bless you. I’m sorry to have hurt you.

Thank you for your kind apology.

This thread is very discouraging for me. I have worked hard to learn to play the organ and accompany congregational singing with “big organ,” using the registration (stops) to help the singers better understand the hymns.

I also play piano with all my heart, and people in the parish tell me that when I play, they sing because the music is full of life.

The impression that I’m getting from this thread is that hymns are doo doo, while chants are what God really prefers.

And what really scares me–yes, SCARES ME!–is that some of you are out in the congregation when I play, and you’re hating everything I do and everything all the people around you are doing.

A few weeks ago, a young man came up to me and with a big smile and sparkling eyes, told me that his father has quit coming to Mass because no one plays the organ anymore. He told me that he will go home and tell his father to come whenever I play and then he will get to hear the organ.

So who cares what all of you think! I’m playing for that one old man.

And for Jesus, too. Always. During the appropriate liturgical seasons, I will play a postlude and almost everyone is gone…but Jesus is still there and He hears.

I think you’re all seeing what you want to see in those “documents.” Our bishops are our shepherds and leading us into green pastures and beside still waters, and they don’t seem to be in any hurry to dump the hymns, close up the piano and organ, and go with chants done by a schola. I’ll follow the shepherds and do what THEY say and not worry about what all of you wish would happen.

 

[KCT]

Number one reason not to sing?

From All are Welcome:

“Where all God’s children dare to seek to dream God’s reign anew…”

What does this mean?? Is it a reference to the 2nd coming?

Just grates on my nerves…sometimes I just pray silently when it’s the entrance song.

 

[pianistclare]

Number one reason not to sing?

From All are Welcome:

“Where all God’s children dare to seek to dream God’s reign anew…”

What does this mean?? Is it a reference to the 2nd coming?

Just grates on my nerves…sometimes I just pray silently when it’s the entrance song.

No. try reading all the lyrics.
in the context of the entire piece, it means that people are hopeful. Hoping to return to paradise.

 

[bisco]

once or twice a year, our music director/pianist and the singer don’t show up. not sure why, but it’s weird to say all the mass, i’m just not used to it. we do a lot of singing, and i like it.

 

[ProVobis]

So who cares what all of you think! I’m playing for that one old man.

And for Jesus, too. Always. During the appropriate liturgical seasons, I will play a postlude and almost everyone is gone…but Jesus is still there and He hears.

FWIW, everything else being equal the organ has better reverberations the fewer people there are, so I usually stick aroung till the organist finishes playing. Remember too some call the pipe organ Vox Dei (voice of God) so don’t quit playing.

BTW, I have a Vox Humana stop on my organ and it sounds lousy.

 

[bisco]

on eagles wings is one of my favorites. and bread of life. sure i like it when they sing in a key i can reach, but that doesn’t mean everyone can. sometimes the amp is up a bit too loud, but i see no need to complain. the musicians are giving their hearts and souls.

 

[bobballen_18]

You do not understand this correctly. It is the position of the Church that music at Mass should be chosen so that the whole assembly can and will participate, because it is integral to the single act of worship that is the Mass. Consider the section on singing from the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (boldface mine, obviously):

The Importance of Singing

1. The Christian faithful who come together as one in expectation of the Lord’s coming are instructed by the Apostle Paul to sing together Psalms, hymns, and spiritual canticles (cf. Col 3:16). Singing is the sign of the heart’s joy (cf. Acts 2:46). Thus St. Augustine says rightly, “Singing is for one who loves,”[48] and there is also an ancient proverb: “Whoever sings well prays twice over.”
2. Great importance should therefore be attached to the use of singing in the celebration of the Mass, with due consideration for the culture of peoples and abilities of each liturgical assembly. Although it is not always necessary (e.g., in weekday Masses) to sing all the texts that are in principle meant to be sung, every care should be taken that singing by the ministers and the people not be absent in celebrations that occur on Sundays and on Holydays of Obligation.

However, in the choosing of the parts actually to be sung, preference is to be given to those that are of greater importance and especially to those which are to be sung by the Priest or the Deacon or a reader, with the people replying, or by the Priest and people together.[49]

1. The main place should be given, all things being equal, to Gregorian chant, as being proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other kinds of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.[50]

Since the faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently, it is desirable that they know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially the Profession of Faith and the Lord’s Prayer, according to the simpler settings.[51]

All right, thank you for those references. However, correct me if I am wrong - the GIRM is for the Ordinary Form, and not the Extraordinary Form, right? I suppose, then, that I am allowing my experiences with music at Extraordinary Form Masses to “cloud” my judgment on this matter. I must say, I completely disagree with the notion that music directors should make sure that every little thing has to be able to be sung by the congregation as well (OK, I know that’s an exaggeration). I suppose there is room for different opinions about this, but based on my own experience, and as I mentioned in my previous post, it is undeniably possible to be “participating” simply by listening, and I know many others who feel this way. I do not believe that, in order to “actively participate” in the Mass, or more specifically, the singing at Mass, one absolutely has to be singing along; in fact, if you can sing along, that is great, do it! (and/or join the choir…lol). I’m not saying the congregation should never sing anything - I think it is good for them to be involved in singing whatever hymns are sung, the Ordinaries, and various responses throughout the Mass, and I think that #39-41 as quoted from the GIRM above could be interpreted to mean just that - and that even applies to the EF in my opinion too. Although I haven’t found that a lot of regular EF Mass attendees try to sing along with the Ordinary chants. They will usually join in for the hymns, though.

 

[DaveBj]

Easter Joy - all your points are good ones, but these 2 applied to me. I’ve told the family that if Eagle’s Wings is sung at my funeral, I’ll come back & haunt them.

snip

Me too I have NEVER heard that ?song? sung well.

Though not Catholic myself, I am open to it…

I have read the comments about limited people participating as musicians…

Has anyone ever thought about volunteering to hold a worship service of singing? Meeting somewhere like at a park or rotate homes if not authorized by the Priest to meet in the church just to have a good time together with God?

It may open up something positive… maybe even have some snacks

I have proposed this before, to positive responses. I would like to see Catholic parishes sponsor a “free music” service, where all genres of music would be welcome, with the only stipulation be that the music be aimed at worshiping God.

I grew up in the southern “shaped note” style of gospel music, where everyone knew his/her vocal range, and at church services you could hear farmers and farm wives (and their kids) worshiping God in four-part harmony. I still participate in that whenever I get together with my cousins. By comparison, music at Mass is excruciatingly bland, sometimes consisting of only a solo by the cantor. I sing, unless it’s a song that is offensive to me, and I’m usually improvising the bass line when I do sing. If my wife’s voice were in good shape (she’s a soprano, but she had COPD), and if I could find an alto and a tenor near us, we’d be getting some looks for sure.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Thank you for your kind apology.

This thread is very discouraging for me. I have worked hard to learn to play the organ and accompany congregational singing with “big organ,” using the registration (stops) to help the singers better understand the hymns.

I also play piano with all my heart, and people in the parish tell me that when I play, they sing because the music is full of life.

The impression that I’m getting from this thread is that hymns are doo doo, while chants are what God really prefers.

And what really scares me–yes, SCARES ME!–is that some of you are out in the congregation when I play, and you’re hating everything I do and everything all the people around you are doing.

A few weeks ago, a young man came up to me and with a big smile and sparkling eyes, told me that his father has quit coming to Mass because no one plays the organ anymore. He told me that he will go home and tell his father to come whenever I play and then he will get to hear the organ.

So who cares what all of you think! I’m playing for that one old man.

And for Jesus, too. Always. During the appropriate liturgical seasons, I will play a postlude and almost everyone is gone…but Jesus is still there and He hears.

I think you’re all seeing what you want to see in those “documents.” Our bishops are our shepherds and leading us into green pastures and beside still waters, and they don’t seem to be in any hurry to dump the hymns, close up the piano and organ, and go with chants done by a schola. I’ll follow the shepherds and do what THEY say and not worry about what all of you wish would happen.

Don’t let it get to you. There’s a reason there are so many genres of music, you are never going to please everyone. I don’t hate music, in fact I tend to be pretty eclectic and like a lot of different styles. The church I attended as a kid had one mass with ‘contemporary’ music with a band with guitars and drums and it was a nice change from other masses. They also had the typical formal choir, which was good.

A lot of it is what you grew up with- I grew up with just 4 hymns sung
(entrance, offeratory, communion, closing), but none of the prayers. I like just saying them - others will vociferously disagree because of their experience. (Kind of like holding hands during the Our Father)

I admire folks in the choir and the accompanying musicians. I would never want to impose my preferences on everyone, just glad my parish is large enough that they can support a variety of formats. Play your heart out and realize that for every one or two that prefer something different, the majority are enjoying your contribution to the mass. As someone else mentioned, the point of the mass is celebrating with Christ and I certainly wouldn’t avoid going to mass over the type of music being played. It’s kind of the decorations on the cake kind of thing.

 

[myway]

Catholics wait to receive Jesus in the Eucharist during Mass. Protestants wait to receive Jesus at the second coming.

 

[pnewton]

I hear you. We had a pastor that forbid that piece and also The Church’s One Foundation for the same reasons. He 's a Monsignor now, and still contends that those pieces should not ever be published in hymnals marketed for Catholic churches.

I use that one all the time. I believe that there is one holy, catholic and apostolic Church, whose foundation is Jesus.

I guess enough clergy find it acceptable to be in many hymnals.

There is a reason why liturgical music is picked at the parish level, as opposed to the Scripture. Priests shepherd based on their own opinion of what is best for their parish, as they are closest to those people.

As most of these issues eventually boil down to opinions or tastes, I believe in variety, pleasing no one with every song, but pleasing all some of the time, and in staying away from all extremes. It is a given that one must not include any song that is secular, heretical or forbidden by Church authority.

 

[ProVobis]

All right, thank you for those references. However, correct me if I am wrong - the GIRM is for the Ordinary Form, and not the Extraordinary Form, right?

That’s correct but the 4-hymn “standard” was introduced right after the Council, even though the Council never abrogated the Introit or the communion antiphon, and neither did the IGMR/GIRM, whose first edition came out several years later (in 1970*) and third edition was to come out in 2002.

*If I can find the 1970 edition I will verify that, but I know it’s in the 2002 Latin IGMR.

 

[Kal2012]

Lately, it seems that every parish I visit wants to sing the Gloria or the Lord’s Prayer with a slightly different melody.

I sing when I’m able, but sometimes I just end up shaking my head in frustration because I just can’t find the rhythm/melody of the song and I just can’t pick up what line we are supposed to be on.

Unless you are a regular member of the parish, some of the nuances can really get to you, if you don’t expect them.