No Compromises: Kansas State Bishops Declare Voting for Abortion Candidate is "Evil

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agnostic said:
You’re just towing the party line. You haven’t actually addressed anything I said or disproved it. My body is mine. Prove to me it isn’t. The cells growing in it are just that - **cells, that are part of my body **- prove to me that is not so. Getting rid of a bunch of cells is not ‘‘slaughter’’ -
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The baby is growing in your body, but it is not part of your body. That “bunch of cells” are a human and doesn’t have your DNA. That is the proof that the child is not you. It is a scientific fact, not a religious belief.
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agnostic:
killing innocent victims in an illegal war, now that’s slaughter.
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Really? You are bringing Iraq into the discussion? 😛 Bob is right, you are hitting all of the cliches. :rotfl:
 
I think both abortion and unjust war are sins. It is possible to be against unjust killing of babies and adults at the same time.
 
agnostic said:
You’re just towing the party line. You haven’t actually addressed anything I said or disproved it. My body is mine. Prove to me it isn’t. The cells growing in it are just that - cells, that are part of my body - prove to me that is not so. Getting rid of a bunch of cells is not ‘‘slaughter’’ - killing innocent victims in an illegal war, now that’s slaughter.
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I was wondering when the Iraq war was going to get tthrown into the mix. Why dont you go ahead and bring up Abu Ghabi and Gitmo and get out your system and then we can get back to discussing the killing of 1.2 million children a year

So when embryo’s are created in a petri dish are they part of a petri dish?

How many parts of your body can have a different blood type than the rest of the body?

If you had a tape worm would that be considered part of your body?

How often have random clumps of cells in your body developed into a separate human being?

If one declares that human life is not human at all does that mean it is not human life?

What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
 
rlg94086 said:
Okay…so how is a raped married woman “left facing the abortion issue” alone?
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Lets see now - the woman doesn’t want the baby nor the life long reminder of the rape but the husband does, so she is either morally beaten to a pulp and forced to do something she doesn’t want, or sticks to her guns and suffers at the hands of her husband for the rest of their life together, or he just leaves her for her ‘‘sinfullness’’ and the fact he didn’t get his own way.

Or, the woman wants the baby but the husband doesn’t so she is forced to abort against her wishes or she has the baby but she and the baby are shunned in the marriage or forced out

Or, she is not able to tell the husband she was raped for fear of his reaction and the consequences and she has to sort it all out by herself

Lots of ways …
 
agnostic said:
Lets see now - the woman doesn’t want the baby nor the life long reminder of the rape but the husband does, so she is either morally beaten to a pulp and forced to do something she doesn’t want, or sticks to her guns and suffers at the hands of her husband for the rest of their life together, or he just leaves her for her ‘‘sinfullness’’ and the fact he didn’t get his own way.

Or, the woman wants the baby but the husband doesn’t so she is forced to abort against her wishes or she has the baby but she and the baby are shunned in the marriage or forced out

Or, she is not able to tell the husband she was raped for fear of his reaction and the consequences and she has to sort it all out by herself

Lots of ways …
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Bob is right…you do hate men. I recommend some sessions with a psychologist.

I already explained how it would work in my home. There would be no abuse, abandonment, etc. We would deal with the situation together, which is what married couples do. The child should not be killed just because of the terrible circumstances under which it was conceived. I am sad to hear such a calloused viewpoint.
 
estesbob said:
I was wondering when the Iraq war was going to get tthrown into the mix. Why dont you go ahead and bring up Abu Ghabi and Gitmo and get out your system and then we can get back to discussing the killing of 1.2 million children a year
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I wasn’t referring to the Iraq war, but that’s by the by
So when embryo’s are created in a petri dish are they part of a petri dish?
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Duh???
How often have random clumps of cells in your body developed into a separate human being?
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You nearly got it 😃 Random clumps of cells - in my body - correct. That is all. Random clumps of cells, in my body - not a human, random clumps of cells 👍
If one declares that human life is not human at all does that mean it is not human life?
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Yes it does. In pretty much the same way your church declares things like masturbation is a sin, and it is so, purgatory exists and it is so, Jesus’ mother was a virgin and it is so, I declare a clump of cells is a clump of cells, and it is so. However, once I have given birth, the goalposts change and we are now talking about a human being.
 
rlg94086 said:
Bob is right…you do hate men. I recommend some sessions with a psychologist.
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That’s funny 😃
I already explained how it would work in my home. There would be no abuse, abandonment, etc. We would deal with the situation together, which is what married couples do. The child should not be killed just because of the terrible circumstances under which it was conceived. I am sad to hear such a calloused viewpoint.
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That might well be the case in your home, but let’s be honest, your home does not set the standard for worldwide marriage unions, that would not be the case in billions of homes, so the fact that YOU in YOUR home, would be an exception, is neither here nor there. It is most definitely NOT how most women would be treated.
 
agnostic said:
Random clumps of cells - in my body - correct. That is all. Random clumps of cells, in my body - not a human, random clumps of cells 👍

… I declare a clump of cells is a clump of cells, and it is so. However, once I have given birth, the goalposts change and we are now talking about a human being.
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Unfortunately for you, your declaration is completely contrary to science. The cells are not random, and they are definitely human. This can be verified in a laboratory. You need to go back to school (unless you are still in school, in which case you need to pay attention) and learn some basic biology.
 
rlg94086 said:
Unfortunately for you, your declaration is completely contrary to science. The cells are not random, and they are definitely human. This can be verified in a laboratory. You need to go back to school (unless you are still in school, in which case you need to pay attention) and learn some basic biology.
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Oh Please - I was repeating what bob said - the cells, are just that, cells, how the heck are they ‘‘human’’. They are just cells for pete’s sake dividing and subdiving as cells do!!! Are you seriously telling me that I can take my ovum out after it’s been blitzed, put in under a microscope, and see a human

😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 :

That’s the funniest thing ever - except it’s that exact mentality that results in the persecution every day of women at clinics.
 
agnostic said:
Thanks for your concern :rolleyes: but it is misplaced. If I’m angry at anything it’s women always being scapegoated for men and their sins. Women get raped and sexually abused every minute of every day, both inside and outside of marriage, and if they get pregnant they are expected to carry to full term and ‘‘love’’ the results of the rape :eek: otherwise they are undermining the very fabric of society. Do you see that? It’s the woman’s fault - not a mention of the men who abused and raped? It would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad.
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Statistically rape/incest account for less than 1% of abortions around the world.
 
agnostic said:
Oh Please - I was repeating what bob said - the cells, are just that, cells, how the heck are they ‘‘human’’. They are just cells for pete’s sake dividing and subdiving as cells do!!! Are you seriously telling me that I can take my ovum out after it’s been blitzed, put in under a microscope, and see a human.
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If you are talking about a zygote, you will see cells with human DNA that don’t match yours. That is scientific evidence that another being, distinct from you has started to grow. If you are talking about a fetus, you will see a pre-born human with hands, feet and heartbeat.

If you believe that the difference between a non-human “part of your body” and a human baby is merely location (in womb vs. out-of-womb), then your position is completely illogical…and sad.
 
agnostic said:
Lets see now - the woman doesn’t want the baby nor the life long reminder of the rape but the husband does, so she is either morally beaten to a pulp and forced to do something she doesn’t want, or sticks to her guns and suffers at the hands of her husband for the rest of their life together, or he just leaves her for her ‘‘sinfullness’’ and the fact he didn’t get his own way.

Or, the woman wants the baby but the husband doesn’t so she is forced to abort against her wishes or she has the baby but she and the baby are shunned in the marriage or forced out

Or, she is not able to tell the husband she was raped for fear of his reaction and the consequences and she has to sort it all out by herself

Lots of ways …
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Why is it all of your scenarios are premised on men being volent and non-supportive??
 
rlg94086 said:
then your position is completely illogical…and sad.
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No it isn’t, it is neither illogical nor sad … it’s a fact … you don’t agree of course, and that’s fine, but then you’re a man, and as you will never have to face what a woman goes through in reaching the decision to have an abortion, not go through the abortion itself, your patronising misogynistic views count for nothing 😃
 
agnostic said:
No it isn’t, it is neither illogical nor sad … it’s a fact … you don’t agree of course, and that’s fine, but then you’re a man, and as you will never have to face what a woman goes through in reaching the decision to have an abortion, not go through the abortion itself**, your patronising misogynistic views count for nothing** 😃
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Well I stuck around for a while giving you the benefit of the doubt BUT you are obviously not serious about discussing anything. Bye
 
estesbob said:
Well I stuck around for a while giving you the benefit of the doubt BUT you are obviously not serious about discussing anything. Bye
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😃 😃

YOU stuck around, giving ME the benefit of the doubt, 😃 Brilliant 😃 You can’t even see it can you 😃
 
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