No girls as altar servers in Extraordinary Mass: Vatican

[irishpatrick]

The Vatican’s Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei has clarified that girls are not allowed to serve at the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, reports the Catholic Herald.

It made clear that the Instruction on Summorum Pontificum, Universae Ecclesiae, does not permit female altar servers at the older Mass.

cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=26779

 

[wisdomseeker]

The Vatican’s Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei has clarified that girls are not allowed to serve at the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, reports the Catholic Herald.

It made clear that the Instruction on Summorum Pontificum, Universae Ecclesiae, does not permit female altar servers at the older Mass.

cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=26779

And I read the commentaries below and they are just horrifying. People like to claim that somehow they have rights before God. It is God who determined how He wants us to worship HIm. He told the jews and He told the Apostles of His Church. Thanks be to God that we can still the have the TM to go to.

 

[nickybr38]

This is one of those things that makes me go; Huh? Why the difference?

Shouldn’t these sort of things be the same whether EF or OF?

 

[Myqyl]

This is one of those things that makes me go; Huh? Why the difference?

Shouldn’t these sort of things be the same whether EF or OF?

The EF is designed for those that can’t yet accept Vatican II. If there were no difference between the EF and the OF there would be no EF and OF. This is one of the differences that many folks are having a problem with so the Church graciously (and I believe wisely) has chosen to give the old school Catholics a Mass they are comfortable with. If God did not want girls as altar servers then the Church would not allow them in the OF either. But some Catholics have a hard time accepting that, so the Church provides the EF.

Make sense?

God bless

 

[Chen_Zhen]

The EF is designed for those that can’t yet accept Vatican II. If there were no difference between the EF and the OF there would be no EF and OF. This is one of the differences that many folks are having a problem with so the Church graciously (and I believe wisely) has chosen to give the old school Catholics a Mass they are comfortable with. If God did not want girls as altar servers then the Church would not allow them in the OF either. But some Catholics have a hard time accepting that, so the Church provides the EF.

Make sense?

God bless

The “Extraordinary form” is not designed for Catholics who can’t accept Vatican II. It is simply the Mass as it existed prior to Vatican II.
Any acceptance or rejection of Vatican II is based on the assent of the mind of the individual.
Vatican II itself did not mandate any liturgical change.
Saying that God wants female altar servers because they are allowed in the Ordinary Form is not logical. God decrees or permits something in His Church and just because it is permitted does not mean it is decreed.

 

[Chen_Zhen]

And I read the commentaries below and they are just horrifying. People like to claim that somehow they have rights before God. It is God who determined how He wants us to worship HIm. He told the jews and He told the Apostles of His Church. Thanks be to God that we can still the have the TM to go to.

Indeed!

Many comments on these forums that you fear are from people who are in the western world and because of this believe reality is what they determine it to be. They may be doing this knowingly of unknowingly.
As you probably know, this error comes from the false philosophies that existed before, but were unleashed as a result of the protestant revolt. This philosophy infected the western world and is continuing to infect the rest of the world the more they become westernized.

 

[SunnaB16]

The EF is designed for those that can’t yet accept Vatican II.

Tell that to the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter. These fellas celebrate the TLM only; and are also POST Vatican II. They often refer to Vatican II documents.

If there were no difference between the EF and the OF there would be no EF and OF. This is one of the differences that many folks are having a problem with so the Church graciously (and I believe wisely) has chosen to give the old school Catholics a Mass they are comfortable with. If God did not want girls as altar servers then the Church would not allow them in the OF either. But some Catholics have a hard time accepting that, so the Church provides the EF.

Make sense?

No!
Your reference to the “old school Catholics” is insulting. Patronising!
Have you experienced the TLM lately? If you have, you will have noticed the number of young people there: people who were born long after the conclusion of Vatican II. They`re hardly “old school”.

The Mass is the Mass is the Mass; and the OF is just as much the Mass as is the EF: but some of us just happen to prefer the EF. i refer to my own outlook as being that of a ***post-***Vatican II traditionalist.

PS:
Vatican II didnt demand the wholesale changes that resulted in the Novus Ordo. And it certainly didnt call for altar girls! Altar girls were inttroduced by disobediant clergy who bowed to the demands of the FEMINISTS; and then, Church bureaucrats found a “legal loophole” which allowed the practice.
In any case, the Church`s teachings on Faith and Morals are infallible; but mistakes can be made in other areas.

 

[preppyboy6]

excuse me but canon 230 i beleive states that the female gender is never to set foot in the sanctuary without nesccesity therefore the bogus argument that if god didnt want girls up there the church wouldnt let them be is baseless as the canon of the church forbids them from being their so anyone who says they can serve anytime is wrong.

 

[irishpatrick]

Indeed!

Many comments on these forums that you fear are from people who are in the western world and because of this believe reality is what they determine it to be. They may be doing this knowingly of unknowingly.
As you probably know, this error comes from the false philosophies that existed before, but were unleashed as a result of the protestant revolt. This philosophy infected the western world and is continuing to infect the rest of the world the more they become westernized.

Yes, but there are signs of hope, many actually.

 

[Myqyl]

No!
Your reference to the “old school Catholics” is insulting. Patronising!
Have you experienced the TLM lately? If you have, you will have noticed the number of young people there: people who were born long after the conclusion of Vatican II. They`re hardly “old school”.

I’m sorry you took offense as certainly none was intended… Old school does not in any way infer “old people”… I am an old person, but am not (completely) “old school”… My 12 year old daughter is in many ways “Old School”… Perhaps it was a poor choice of words… Maybe “Traditionalists” would have been better? Again, sorry to anyone that took offense.

I enjoy the EF and attend it whenever I can… I’m very sorry that people have reacted to my observations as if I had suggested they were “wrong” in some way.

All I was trying (unsuccessfully it seems) to say is that the EF has been left for those that prefer the way things were, while the OF has evolved for those that prefer the way things are. The Church clearly allows female altar servers.

I am however dismayed by how quickly some will claim the Church is in error on every issue they disagree with. Christ established His Church to teach us and to lead us. We are suppose to be obedient to His Church. Not just the parts of the Church we like and agree with. It is the job of Catholics to agree with the Church, not the job of the Church to agree with Catholics. The Church allows many things that are not in the EF, This does NOT mean the Church is in error on these things.

God bless

 

[irishpatrick]

Altar serving was always seen as means to encourage young men to consider the Priesthood.

 

[nickybr38]

I’m a bit confused again (although I thank everyone for explaining the difference between OF and EF). If female altar servers are truly not supposed to be happening at all then why has this not been addressed by the Bishops?

 

[Corki]

This is one of those things that makes me go; Huh? Why the difference?

Shouldn’t these sort of things be the same whether EF or OF?

No. Even within the OF, this is not something that is universally allowed. There are parishes that only allow male servers, diocese that only allow male servers, etc. I traveled quite a bit in South America and never saw a male altar server.

The EF is designed for those that can’t yet accept Vatican II. If there were no difference between the EF and the OF there would be no EF and OF. This is one of the differences that many folks are having a problem with so the Church graciously (and I believe wisely) has chosen to give the old school Catholics a Mass they are comfortable with. If God did not want girls as altar servers then the Church would not allow them in the OF either. But some Catholics have a hard time accepting that, so the Church provides the EF.

Make sense?

God bless

That’s no where near true. First of all the EF was “designed” long before Vatican II was ever held. Second, most people I know who prefer the EF Mass are fully accepting of Vatican II.

At best, I am neutral about girl servers in the OF Mass but would have a real hard time seeing them in an EF Mass. They don’t “fit” there. It’s like insisting that the NY Yankees institute the position of Quarterback.

And I am quite sure that over the centuries, there have been many disciplinary decisions by Church leaders that saddened our Lord and were not what God wanted. Rules about the gender of altar servers are not protected by the Holy Spirit.

The Church allows many things that are not in the EF, This does NOT mean the Church is in error on these things.

But it doesn’t mean she is RIGHT either. The rules are not “right” or “wrong”. They are simply authoritative. A Bishop or priest can be “right” or “wrong” depending on if he obeyed or not but the concept of error on the part of the Church does not apply here.

 

[Myqyl]

I’m a bit confused again (although I thank everyone for explaining the difference between OF and EF). If female altar servers are truly not supposed to be happening at all then why has this not been addressed by the Bishops?

The link below is an article about altar servers welcomed to the Vatican by Pope Benedict…

ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/vatican-paper-comes-praise-altar-girls

This next link covers both sides of the issue quite well and is as non-biased as any I’ve seen… It’s a long read, but worthwhile.

catholicexchange.com/2010/04/22/129481/

Clearly female altar servers are permitted. Not required by any means, but certainly permitted.

God bless

 

[Chen_Zhen]

I’m a bit confused again (although I thank everyone for explaining the difference between OF and EF). If female altar servers are truly not supposed to be happening at all then why has this not been addressed by the Bishops?

This is not being addressed by the bishops because they (a good number of them) are not doing their job. The pope has made plenty of statements telling the bishops what the standard is and the bishops are simply being disobedient.
This is why we must pray all the more for our church.
Many bishops are corrupt because they are serving special interests and not the Church.
However, know that there are many good bishops!
There is a tendency for the more extremists so called “traditional” Catholics to bad mouth bishops, but they need to understand that many bishops are good even if they don’t celebrate the Extraordinary Form all of the time, or to their liking. I am not saying traditionalists are extremists, they are not and they are a very positive thing for our church, but I am trying to point out that a fraction of them are.
The bishops who are trying to do the right things need support, not detraction. They need people to stand behind them. Good leaders need to have good followers!
Consider if a bishop is trying to do the right things and people are bad mouthing him and claiming they are more Catholic that he is. Does that give him incentive to to better? No, only to be defensive.

 

[Corki]

The link below is an article about altar servers welcomed to the Vatican by Pope Benedict…

ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/vatican-paper-comes-praise-altar-girls

Just to be clear. The altar servers - boys and girls - were not being welcomed “to” the Vatican; they were being welcomed “at” the Vatican. The first implies that they were coming to serve when in reality they were there for an annual gathering. There was lots of praise for female servers in the article but none of it came from the Pope but rather from an essayist writing for the paper. In fact the actual title of the article is

“Vatican paper comes in praise of altar girls”

 

[Myqyl]

The link below is an article about altar servers welcomed to the Vatican by Pope Benedict…

ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/vatican-paper-comes-praise-altar-girls

This next link covers both sides of the issue quite well and is as non-biased as any I’ve seen… It’s a long read, but worthwhile.

catholicexchange.com/2010/04/22/129481/

Clearly female altar servers are permitted. Not required by any means, but certainly permitted.

God bless

I’m going to quote a summary of the 2nd link, written by someone that clearly does NOT approve of female altar servers in hopes of showing that the Bishops that allow female alter servers are doing their job…

So how does all this add up to altar girls?

In 1992, a dubium, or doubt, was submitted to the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts. As we saw in the October 5, 2007 column, this Council has been given the exclusive right and authority to issue authentic—i.e., official—interpretations of all legal documents promulgated by Rome, including the Code of Canon Law. Whenever there is a question raised about the correct way to interpret a given canon, this Council has the final say.

The dubium that was raised was this: does canon 230.2, which mentions lectors, cantors, commentators, and “other functions,” also pertain to the function of altar server?

The Council answered in the affirmative. (All the Council’s authentic interpretations are posted on the Vatican’s official website, but in Latin only, and can be found here.) Regardless of one’s personal preferences, there was no other possible answer to the question, since the whole notion of altar servers as we know them is covered by this paragraph. Were it not for canon 230.2, there would be no canonical justification for the existence of altar boys at all!

The problem, however, is that canon 230.2 mentions not viri laici, but just laici. It pertains not only to altar servers, but also includes other roles which are commonly exercised by women as well as men. Thus the canon cannot be interpreted to exclude the possibility of altar girls.

This is why girls are permitted to serve at the altar as well as boys.

 

[Phemie]

I’m going to quote a summary of the 2nd link, written by someone that clearly does NOT approve of female altar servers in hopes of showing that the Bishops that allow female alter servers are doing their job…

It’s up to the Bishop to allow them in his diocese but he can’t impose them on any particular priest. It always remains up to the celebrant whether to use female altar servers.

The clarification that has just come out on the EF just makes the point that a law that came out after 1962 cannot impose something on the Missal of 1962 when it violates the rubrics of that Missal.

 

[Myqyl]

It’s up to the Bishop to allow them in his diocese but he can’t impose them on any particular priest. It always remains up to the celebrant whether to use female altar servers.

The clarification that has just come out on the EF just makes the point that a law that came out after 1962 cannot impose something on the Missal of 1962 when it violates the rubrics of that Missal.

And I take no issue with that. Earlier a question was asked as to why female alter servers are allowed in the OF. That’s what I was addressing.

I’m old enough to remember the Latin Mass when it was the only Mass… I also remember how profoundly moved I was when Father O’Brien turned around and said Mass in a language I spoke. He held several Masses where he explained which phrase in Latin we were saying when we said “And also with you”. He explained what was happening through out the Mass and I was literally moved to tears. The EF is wonderful, but so is the OF. Neither is a “better” or “truer” celebration. That the EF is maintained in it’s original form is truly a blessing. But the fact that young women are called to serve at OF Mass is equally wonderful and should be celebrated by ALL Catholics.

 

[Phemie]

And I take no issue with that. Earlier a question was asked as to why female alter servers are allowed in the OF. That’s what I was addressing.

I’m old enough to remember the Latin Mass when it was the only Mass… I also remember how profoundly moved I was when Father O’Brien turned around and said Mass in a language I spoke. He held several Masses where he explained which phrase in Latin we were saying when we said “And also with you”. He explained what was happening through out the Mass and I was literally moved to tears. The EF is wonderful, but so is the OF. Neither is a “better” or “truer” celebration. That the EF is maintained in it’s original form is truly a blessing. But the fact that young women are called to serve at OF Mass is equally wonderful and should be celebrated by ALL Catholics.

They are not so much called to serve as allowed to at the discretion of the celebrant. I’ve got absolutely no problem with that but they are not in the same category as readers and EMHCs. I suppose a priest could arrange to have only males in those two ministries, but he could not arbitrarily just ban women because they’re women. He can do that with altar servers.