I don’t know much, but I just did that to see…You guys make an upside down cross every time you make the “sign of the cross” with your hand. From forehead to heart to shoulders make an upside down cross.
Ok so I had some spare time this morning (grandma is baby-sitting the boys) so I thought I’d sneak on the computer for awhile.Can you give us at least one example of one of the more “shady” Traditions you are interested in, so we might be better able to direct you to a source?
Merry Christmas all.
Then why did Jesus commission the Apostles to do so?Ok so I had some spare time this morning (grandma is baby-sitting the boys) so I thought I’d sneak on the computer for awhile.
One of the traditions that I have issues with is confession of sins to a priest.
I was taught what is said in Timothy 2:4-6:
4
who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
5
For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human,
6
who gave himself as ransom for all
I see no need to confess my sins publicly to a priest when I confess them to God each and every day before I go to sleep at night.
Shucks, Blue! Confession is just about the best thing there is about being Catholic! Estesbob did a great job of delineating the primary scriptural warrant in John 21 and the Didache etc. We also look to the admonition in James to confess our sins to one another. In the early Church, confession was not made to a priest . . . in private. It was done in public before the entire congregation. So private confession is definitely a great move.Ok so I had some spare time this morning (grandma is baby-sitting the boys) so I thought I’d sneak on the computer for awhile.
One of the traditions that I have issues with is confession of sins to a priest.
I was taught what is said in Timothy 2:4-6:
4
who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
5
For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human,
6
who gave himself as ransom for all
I see no need to confess my sins publicly to a priest when I confess them to God each and every day before I go to sleep at night.
Just when I think I have heard it all, a new example of the boundless energy devoted to anti-Catholic polemics pops up…You guys make an upside down cross every time you make the “sign of the cross” with your hand. From forehead to heart to shoulders make an upside down cross.
I am sure that you have already read this but here is a link about confession.Ok so I had some spare time this morning (grandma is baby-sitting the boys) so I thought I’d sneak on the computer for awhile.
One of the traditions that I have issues with is confession of sins to a priest.
I was taught what is said in Timothy 2:4-6:
4
who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
5
For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human,
6
who gave himself as ransom for all
I see no need to confess my sins publicly to a priest when I confess them to God each and every day before I go to sleep at night.
Q: Why do Catholics confess their sins to a priest, rather than going directly to God?Ok so I had some spare time this morning (grandma is baby-sitting the boys) so I thought I’d sneak on the computer for awhile.
One of the traditions that I have issues with is confession of sins to a priest.
I was taught what is said in Timothy 2:4-6:
4
who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
5
For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human,
6
who gave himself as ransom for all
I see no need to confess my sins publicly to a priest when I confess them to God each and every day before I go to sleep at night.
Blue Serenity, your problem with this sacrament is a very common one. Perhaps it would help you if you look at this the way Catholics do: not that we tell our sins to a priest instead of telling them to God, but that we tell our sins to God through a priest.Ok so I had some spare time this morning (grandma is baby-sitting the boys) so I thought I’d sneak on the computer for awhile.
One of the traditions that I have issues with is confession of sins to a priest.
I was taught what is said in Timothy 2:4-6:
4
who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
5
For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human,
6
We were taught this, too, of course, and agree with Paul 100%. We, however, obediently allow the “one mediator” to have the final say-so on just how His mediation will be applied to us sinners. See John 20:22-23:22. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.who gave himself as ransom for all
Oh, Blue Serenity, we all do this. But some of us also pray daily that our all Christians may one day be blessed to hear the Prayer of Absolution in this Sacrament:God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and** I absolve you from your sins** in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.I see no need to confess my sins publicly to a priest when I confess them to God each and every day before I go to sleep at night.
lol low blow! hahaWell, I don’t know about upside-down, exactly, but perhaps He has found it slightly askew since October 31, 1517.
:clapping:
John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME.JesusOnly
The dimensions of how the sign of the cross is not what is important. It’s the meaning behind the sign of the cross. We are proclaiming the Holy Trinity when we make the sign and say “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." It would seem to me that only a warped mind would look at something so simply and reverent like making the sign of the cross and if it wasn’t done to specifications, than it becomes satanic. It was mentioned after all that St. Peter was crucified upside down. Does that mean that St. Peter was satanic? He welcomed it because he didn’t feel worthy of being crucified like our Lord.
Let me ask you, you signed yourself JesusOnly. Can we then assume then that you are denying the Father and the Holy Spirit? Can we assume by your sign that you are actually saying to h— with the Father and the to h— with the Spirit? After all you are clearly specifying JesusOnly, which we can interpret as you meaning NO to the Father and NO to the Spirit. Now you would consider that being disrespectful and warped. Well by the same token we consider your assumptions disrespectful and warped.
Slightly askew meaning people leaving a religion and having faith in Jesus only… then you’re right.Well, I don’t know about upside-down, exactly, but perhaps He has found it slightly askew since October 31, 1517.
:clapping:
Then you’re doing it wrong. If you really want to know then make an upside down cross starting from your forehead to your heart… then your shoulders from left to right.I don’t know much, but I just did that to see…
and I don’t picture an upside down cross, but a cross laying on it’s side.
forehead to heart would be the “arm” of the cross
shoulder to soulder would be the the other part of the cross.
So forhead to heart and shoulder to shoulder makes a cross laying on the side, or in other words a cross laying on the gound.
Sorry to dissappoint you but Paul wrote this to the Thessalonians in the 2nd epistle.Wow. Regarding “confession” or the Sacrament of Reconciliation, I really like the following, taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1914 Edition:
*By way of further explanation it is needful to correct certain erroneous views regarding this sacrament which not only misrepresent the actual practice of the Church but also lead to a false interpretation of theological statement and historical evidence. From what has been said it should be clear: *
But to get back to the OP’s question.
- that penance is not a mere human invention devised by the Church to secure power over consciences or to relieve the emotional strain of troubled souls; it is the ordinary means appointed by Christ* for the remission of sin. Man indeed is free to obey or disobey, but once he has sinned, he must seek pardon not on conditions of his own choosing but on those which God** has determined, and these for the Christian** are embodied in the Sacrament of Penance. *
- No Catholic believes that a priest simply as an individual man, however pious or learned, has power to forgive sins. This power belongs to God* alone; but He can and does exercise it through the ministration of men. Since He has seen fit to exercise it by means of this sacrament, it cannot be said that the Church or the priest interferes between the soul and God**; on the contrary, penance is the removal of the one obstacle that keeps the soul away from God**. *
- *It is not true that for the Catholic the mere “telling of one’s sins” suffices to obtain their forgiveness. Without sincere sorrow and purpose of amendment, confession avails nothing, the pronouncement of absolution is of no effect, and the guilt of the sinner is greater than before. *
- While this sacrament as a dispensation of Divine mercy facilitates the pardoning of sin, it by no means renders sin less hateful or its consequences less dreadful to the Christian* mind; much less does it imply permission to commit sin in the future. In paying ordinary debts, as e.g., by monthly settlements, the intention of contracting new debts with the same creditor is perfectly legitimate; a similar intention on the part of him who confesses his sins would not only be wrong in itself but would nullify the sacrament and prevent the forgiveness of sins then and there confessed. *
- Strangely enough, the opposite charge is often heard, viz., that the confession of sin is intolerable and hard and therefore alien to the spirit of Christianity* and the loving kindness of its Founder. But this view, in the first place, overlooks the fact that Christ**, though merciful, is also just and exacting. Furthermore, however painful or humiliating confession may be, it is but a light penalty for the violation of God’s law**. Finally, those who are in earnest about their salvation count no hardship too great whereby they can win back God’s** friendship. *
Both these accusations, of too great leniency and too great severity, proceed as a rule from those who have no experience with the sacrament and only the vaguest ideas of what the Church teaches or of the power to forgive sins which the Church received from Christ*. *
For those requesting something in writing on Catholic “Traditions” with the big “T”, I would suggest the *Catholic Encyclopedia *may be the ideal place to start. After all:
“When it was first published, the old Catholic Encyclopedia [1914 Edition] was universally praised for its vast scope and top-notch scholarship. One Protestant reviewer called it "the greatest work undertaken for the advancement of Christian knowledge since the days of Trent.”
Not bad… You can find the whole thing here: newadvent.org/cathen/index.html
Peace all.
The problem with your argument is that it’s not in the Bible.Wow. Regarding “confession” or the Sacrament of Reconciliation, I really like the following, taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1914 Edition:
*By way of further explanation it is needful to correct certain erroneous views regarding this sacrament which not only misrepresent the actual practice of the Church but also lead to a false interpretation of theological statement and historical evidence. From what has been said it should be clear: *
But to get back to the OP’s question.
- that penance is not a mere human invention devised by the Church to secure power over consciences or to relieve the emotional strain of troubled souls; it is the ordinary means appointed by Christ* for the remission of sin. Man indeed is free to obey or disobey, but once he has sinned, he must seek pardon not on conditions of his own choosing but on those which God** has determined, and these for the Christian** are embodied in the Sacrament of Penance. *
- No Catholic believes that a priest simply as an individual man, however pious or learned, has power to forgive sins. This power belongs to God* alone; but He can and does exercise it through the ministration of men. Since He has seen fit to exercise it by means of this sacrament, it cannot be said that the Church or the priest interferes between the soul and God**; on the contrary, penance is the removal of the one obstacle that keeps the soul away from God**. *
- *It is not true that for the Catholic the mere “telling of one’s sins” suffices to obtain their forgiveness. Without sincere sorrow and purpose of amendment, confession avails nothing, the pronouncement of absolution is of no effect, and the guilt of the sinner is greater than before. *
- While this sacrament as a dispensation of Divine mercy facilitates the pardoning of sin, it by no means renders sin less hateful or its consequences less dreadful to the Christian* mind; much less does it imply permission to commit sin in the future. In paying ordinary debts, as e.g., by monthly settlements, the intention of contracting new debts with the same creditor is perfectly legitimate; a similar intention on the part of him who confesses his sins would not only be wrong in itself but would nullify the sacrament and prevent the forgiveness of sins then and there confessed. *
- Strangely enough, the opposite charge is often heard, viz., that the confession of sin is intolerable and hard and therefore alien to the spirit of Christianity* and the loving kindness of its Founder. But this view, in the first place, overlooks the fact that Christ**, though merciful, is also just and exacting. Furthermore, however painful or humiliating confession may be, it is but a light penalty for the violation of God’s law**. Finally, those who are in earnest about their salvation count no hardship too great whereby they can win back God’s** friendship. *
Both these accusations, of too great leniency and too great severity, proceed as a rule from those who have no experience with the sacrament and only the vaguest ideas of what the Church teaches or of the power to forgive sins which the Church received from Christ*. *
For those requesting something in writing on Catholic “Traditions” with the big “T”, I would suggest the *Catholic Encyclopedia *may be the ideal place to start. After all:
“When it was first published, the old Catholic Encyclopedia [1914 Edition] was universally praised for its vast scope and top-notch scholarship. One Protestant reviewer called it "the greatest work undertaken for the advancement of Christian knowledge since the days of Trent.”
Not bad… You can find the whole thing here: newadvent.org/cathen/index.html
Peace all.
To Catholics, the Bible is not a book of arguments.The problem with your argument is that it’s not in the Bible.
It has been pointed out in previous posts that confession and forgiveness of sins is indeed in the Bible, portions of which you hold to be the only source of truth. Why don’t you read these posts and refute them, if you can, from the Bible? Better yet, why don’t you accept all of the New Testament teachings, not just selected passages that support your erroneous theology, so you can see what the truth really is?The problem with your argument is that it’s not in the Bible.
As long as we are in John:John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME.
But you are not saying Through JesusJohn 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME.
Why didnt you bold the rest of it. “…and hold the traditions which ye has been taught whether by word.…”2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.