No list of RCC Traditions???

[joshua_b]

Sorry to be mysterious: it’s just that concrete examples have such a potential to mutate into thread-hijacking side arguments. I’m just saying that even if they’re not part of official Church teaching, the fact that the Church apparently countenances certain sorts of popular customs or devotions could blindside a convert and give him a case of buyer’s remorse–even lead to resentment and reversion.

That was just an example, in any case, and not necessarily one that I’m resting my argument on. Point is, there are conceivable good reasons for someone to want a resource on the Church’s minor customs and small-t traditions.

This is reasonable (this is weird…having a polite and respectful conversation on the forums without arguing…interesting change of pace…I like it). Others have pointed out that being an organization that is 2000 years old, we have developed many of these customs, and abandoned or changed just as many if not more. An exhaustive list would be near impossible I would imagine.

One poster pointed out a book (can’t remember the author…somebody help me out here) “Why do Catholics do That ?”. I think there may be another book by the same author titled “Why Do Catholics Bounce on One Knee ?” One book I read myself, which was actually brought home by my wife before her conversion from the Baptist faith was “Catholocism for Dummies” by Father Frank Tregillio (sp?).

My statement on this would be (if I were speaking to someone considering conversion to Catholocism) to first focus on Catholic teaching as found in the Catechism. The Catechism is the Deposit of Faith and is the true Catholic Church. If a potential convert has worked through every issue they may have with Doctrine, they will have more than enough time invested in researching to have had quite a number of these customs or traditions come up in the course of their research.

 

[gus]

I don’t have a list in front of me but here is a few…

The Holy Trinity
Infant Baptism
Confession
Communion
Mass
Purgatory

This is just a fast list, we really don’t have a list as it is just part of the general teaching. I guess we should get one for our Protestant friends.

You forgot my personal favorite
The cannon of the Bible

 

[kellie]

Sorry Kellie, but this is just the kind of thinking that either confuses our Protestant Separated Brethren, or re-inforces their misconceptions of the Catholic Faith.

All the things you mentioned, your family traditions, are “restricted” to your family. They are not binding - or of interest - on anyone outside your family. And your mum does not speak for all families in all times in all ages as a Pope often does.

Catholics do have “traditions”, like the color of vestments, reading the Gospel on the left side of the sanctuary etc.

But the “list” people are looking for here is that of the “Traditions”. These must be understood as the non-changing Truths of the Church… the eternal and un-changable things that God reveals to us.

I was trying to show that “traditions” or “Traditions” dont have to be written down.

People learn them when joining the organization.

And of course no one who isnt a Catholic would be interested in the Church’s Traditions, same as other families wouldnt be interested in my family’s traditions.

I was using my family as an analogy of our Church.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

This is reasonable (this is weird…having a polite and respectful conversation on the forums without arguing…interesting change of pace…I like it).

Feels sort of unnatural, doesn’t it? Have no fear–the status quo will be back before we know it!

One poster pointed out a book (can’t remember the author…somebody help me out here) “Why do Catholics do That ?”. I think there may be another book by the same author titled “Why Do Catholics Bounce on One Knee ?” One book I read myself, which was actually brought home by my wife before her conversion from the Baptist faith was “Catholocism for Dummies” by Father Frank Tregillio (sp?).

Many thanks–I think you’ve just blown for me the bookstore gift card I got for Xmas.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Good points. However, a Protestant (or anyone else, for that matter) who’s considering Catholicism needs some reliable way of getting up to speed. The Catechism and RCIA cover a lot, but not everything. Not even a tenth of it, in fact. One can convert to Catholicism, believing he’s got all the bases covered, and later discover a widely held belief or practice that might have affected his decision. I just picked that scenario out of a hat, but it illustrates why a fellow might reasonably want some way of finding out what gives.

Yes! Thank you! It’s like you read my mind!!!
I’ve been researching Catholicism for a couple of years now and that’s one of my set-backs to wanting to think about joining.
I can see alot of truth in the Catholic Church but some of the Traditions seem shady. Why aren’t they written down somewhere to make sure each diocese is staying consistent with Rome? The Church prides themselves on unity so why can’t these all be written down for ignorant Protestants like myself to study and review?

 

[tassitus]

Yes! Thank you! It’s like you read my mind!!!
I’ve been researching Catholicism for a couple of years now and that’s one of my set-backs to wanting to think about joining.
I can see alot of truth in the Catholic Church but some of the Traditions seem shady. Why aren’t they written down somewhere to make sure each diocese is staying consistent with Rome? The Church prides themselves on unity so why can’t these all be written down for ignorant Protestants like myself to study and review?

Can you give us at least one example of one of the more “shady” Traditions you are interested in, so we might be better able to direct you to a source?

Merry Christmas all.

 

[MrS]

One poster pointed out a book (can’t remember the author…somebody help me out here) “Why do Catholics do That ?”. I think there may be another book by the same author titled “Why Do Catholics Bounce on One Knee ?” One book I read myself, which was actually brought home by my wife before her conversion from the Baptist faith was “Catholocism for Dummies” by Father Frank Tregillio (sp?).

.

The first was written by Patrick Madrid

The second, “Why do Catholics Genuflect?” was written by Al Kresta

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Can you give us at least one example of one of the more “shady” Traditions you are interested in, so we might be better able to direct you to a source?

Merry Christmas all.

I guess I worded it wrong (once again) and I apologize. What I meant to say was that since the Traditions aren’t written down anywhere and are just passed on orally, I think it seems kinda shady because it leaves it open to get misconstrued from generation to generation. And, how do you know your dioceses are all following the same Tradition?

 

[tassitus]

I guess I worded it wrong (once again) and I apologize. What I meant to say was that since the Traditions aren’t written down anywhere and are just passed on orally, I think it seems kinda shady because it leaves it open to get misconstrued from generation to generation. And, how do you know your dioceses are all following the same Tradition?

Well, perhaps my wording was not at that great, either. If you can tell us precisely which one or more of the Traditions you have in mind, we may be able to SHOW YOU where they ARE INDEED written down.

And this IS a good thread. Perhaps the more argumentative of us are taking the day off!

Peace all.

 

[Evan]

I don’t think one could make an exhaustive list. Because items of faith would be added whenever someone begins to doubt something that has been held for all time.

eg The real presence. Noone doubted it for a thousand years, it was assumed that when Jesus said ‘this is my body’ he meant ‘this is my body’ but now some think he meant ‘I’m saying “this is my body” but we all know it’s just bread and I’m doing this to prove some point (wink wink)’

We believe Jesus was a heterosexual male. We would not list that as a Sacred Tradition. Yet if it became popular in some circle that he was homosexual, and this was used to justify some change in the understanding human sexuality, it could be cited as a Tradition held since the time of the apsotles. Noone ever doubted it.

What else should we list? Things that are not true:that he did not ascend in an alien spaceship, that none of the apostles were conjoined twins, that the virgin Mary did not have a long flowing beard?

Things that we commonly believe that are true: That the cross had a cross beam (as opposed to a torture stake), that the apostles celebrated the mass, that God knows what He is doing?

The Sacred Traditions are things we have held all along, many are unstated because no-one has ever doubted them. If you try to make an exhaustive list, you become another source of revelation: You list becomes another ‘bible’.

It cannot be done. Each catechism that has been made has had a specific purpose, the one from trent was to help priests prepare homilies. The one from baltimore, to prepare people to enter the church. the New one is to advertize to the world much of what we believe and why and to show how it forms a cohesive whole.

It does not purport to be a comprehensive list of all things. For example: Look up gluttony in the index. It has one entry. It is listed in the 7 deadly sins. No definition, no nuanced understanding, nothing. No teaching on gluttony is given, no warnings issued.

 

[mercygate]

Yes! Thank you! It’s like you read my mind!!!
I’ve been researching Catholicism for a couple of years now and that’s one of my set-backs to wanting to think about joining.
I can see alot of truth in the Catholic Church but some of the Traditions seem shady. Why aren’t they written down somewhere to make sure each diocese is staying consistent with Rome? The Church prides themselves on unity so why can’t these all be written down for ignorant Protestants like myself to study and review?

The great Traditions are all written down. The “oral” part was going on before the death of the last apostle, before the canon of the New Testament was codified. Nothing that counts has remained in oral tradition.

You must have figured out by now that the theological constructs about the Holy Trinitiy and the Person of Jesus Christ are part of Sacred Tradition. The big doctrines not spelled out in detail are part of Tradition. Other things, like the way we identify, define, and celebrate the Sacraments, which we believe were instituted by Christ himself, are part of Tradition/tradition.

It’s not shady. It’s perfectly open.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Well, perhaps my wording was not at that great, either. If you can tell us precisely which one or more of the Traditions you have in mind, we may be able to SHOW YOU where they ARE INDEED written down.

And this IS a good thread. Perhaps the more argumentative of us are taking the day off!

Peace all.

Speaking of taking time off, since this is New Year’s weekend, I won’t be back til after the 1st of the year.
I’m not abandoning this thread because I enjoy hearing your points of view, as I know virtually nothing about the CC.
I’ll pick up on this again then. Til then, have a happy and safe New Year!

 

[MrS]

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_6_11v.gif

%between%

 

[JesusOnly]

Can you give us at least one example of one of the more “shady” Traditions you are interested in, so we might be better able to direct you to a source?

Merry Christmas all.

You guys make an upside down cross every time you make the “sign of the cross” with your hand. From forehead to heart to shoulders make an upside down cross.

 

[geezerbob]

You guys make an upside down cross every time you make the “sign of the cross” with your hand. From forehead to heart to shoulders make an upside down cross.

So? The point that you’re missing is that when we make the sign of the cross, we’re dedicating what we are about to do or have just completed to the glory of God. Tell me, if you can, what’s wrong with that.

 

[JesusOnly]

So? The point that you’re missing is that when we make the sign of the cross, we’re dedicating what we are about to do or have just completed to the glory of God. Tell me, if you can, what’s wrong with that.

So?! My point is that you guys make an UPSIDE DOWN CROSS with your hand in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In case you are completely unaware, the upside down cross is SATANIC.

 

[tassitus]

You guys make an upside down cross every time you make the “sign of the cross” with your hand. From forehead to heart to shoulders make an upside down cross.

“Yeah, but when God looks down the crosses we make appear right-side-up to Him…”

(for a response that is just as juvenile as the objection)

Read all about it here (from *Catechism of the Catholic Church *online):

1. The Christian begins his day, his prayers, and his activities with the Sign of the Cross: “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.” The baptized person dedicates the day to the glory of God and calls on the Savior’s grace which lets him act in the Spirit as a child of the Father. The sign of the cross strengthens us in temptations and difficulties.
2. The sign of the cross, on the threshold of the celebration, marks with the imprint of Christ the one who is going to belong to him and signifies the grace of the redemption Christ won for us by his cross.

With plenty more information where these paragraphs come from - check it out some time.

And since you’re new to our Catechism we won’t make you turn the text upside down, even…

Peace again.

 

[JesusOnly]

“Yeah, but when God looks down the crosses we make appear right-side-up to Him…”

(for a response that is just as juvenile as the objection)

Read all about it here (from *Catechism of the Catholic Church *online):

1. The Christian begins his day, his prayers, and his activities with the Sign of the Cross: “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.” The baptized person dedicates the day to the glory of God and calls on the Savior’s grace which lets him act in the Spirit as a child of the Father. The sign of the cross strengthens us in temptations and difficulties.
2. The sign of the cross, on the threshold of the celebration, marks with the imprint of Christ the one who is going to belong to him and signifies the grace of the redemption Christ won for us by his cross.

With plenty more information where these paragraphs come from - check it out some time.

And since you’re new to our Catechism we won’t make you turn the text upside down, even…

Peace again.

So what you’re saying is… God is looking down… and all your crosses standing in your chuches are upside down to HIM… right?

That would also mean the whole world is upside down to God.

 

[estesbob]

You guys make an upside down cross every time you make the “sign of the cross” with your hand. From forehead to heart to shoulders make an upside down cross.

Well I never was very good at geometry but how does that make it an upside down cross? Or is it detremined by the size of the person doing it? you know right side up for a small person and upside down for a tall person(or would that be the other way around)?

 

[tassitus]

That would also mean the whole world is upside down to God.

Well, I don’t know about upside-down, exactly, but perhaps He has found it slightly askew since October 31, 1517.

:clapping: