No longer a Roman Catholic

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I’m praying for you, my uncle went through something very much like what your describing at around the same age too, he was actually suffering from sever depression and he finally got help for this and this has been several years and life is really turning around for him and he is working his way back go God. As a person myself who suffers from depression alot of what your saying are things I’ve gone through myself and when I have those thoughts and feelings it has always been when I’m also suffering badly with depression and all things seem so helpless and hopeless and I question God, life, etc.
Just a thought that maybe you should seek some help, don’t give up on God, he will never leave you but he will give you freewill.
Praying For You.
 
Reen, After reading this thread I glean a few things.
  1. You are an honet soft hearted person who really does not know the basics of Catholocism. Your school Catechism was not internalized. You probably didnt believe it back then/
  2. I feel you are not sure that Jesus Christ ever lived. If Jesus didn’t live then I understand why you are afraid. It is true that the life of Jesus is MORE well documented that any other person who lived over a thousand years ago. He did live reen.
  3. Get on your knees for just one week, 20 minutes a day, and ask the Holy Spirit if Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Ask God if Jesus diesd for your sins. Try it, the Holy Spirit is our friend!
 
Hello, KevinWalker,

Thank you for your kind reply.

I have studied the lives of the saints and been
most edified…especially St. Benedict Joseph
Labre. I sent to England for a biography of
him, printed in the 18th century. I even spent a
lot of time reading the Greek and Russian Orthdox
lives of the saints.

I used to have half the collected works of Luther,
and read a couple of biographies. I never spent
one minute on Henry VIII, and very little time
with Calvin…now there’s a man I’d run a mile
in tight shoes to avoid [no offense to followers
of Calvin. It was my personal reaction to him.]

In our dining room is a bookcase full of the
works of the early Fathers of the Church.

There is no way in heaven that 40 years of
reading did not present me with the truths
of the faith. But faith is a gift of grace, not
to be acquired by any knowledge I may have.
Thomas a Kempis was right in that regard,
I think.
God bless you for taking the time to reply,
and your prayers would be appreciated.

reen12
 
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reen12:
…There is no way in heaven that 40 years of
reading did not present me with the truths
of the faith. But faith is a gift of grace, not
to be acquired by any knowledge I may have.
Click to expand...
Then why is it that you reject the Grace He has given you???:confused: …somehow this just doesn’t add up…sorry.
 
Dear kamz,

Thanks for your insights. I have suffered lifelong
chronic depression, and have tried to carry this
with dignity and grace. Only those who suffer in
this way can appreciate what this costs, and
you, too, must realize what this is like from
what you said.
[My blood pressure is great, but my neurotransmitters
aren’t in good shape!]

I thought is was a fine insight, kamz.
The least depressed I’ve felt since childhood
was deciding to pray in a synagogue.
I’m going to say a BIG prayer for you, tonight,
for your kindness.

reen12
 
Maureen,
I am a former Protestant minister. Since becoming Catholic I have felt no fear at all. I absolutely love being Catholic. It is a great joy. I have never felt closer to Christ. I would ask that you consider seeing a good priest for spiritual direction. Also maybe read Catholic books that show the real joy that we have especially in the Eucharist. Consider the Suprised by Truth books. But most importantly find a spiritual counselor. If your local priest is unable to do it check around your diocese. It has been said if you wish God as your Father you must have the Church as your mother. There is no need to fear.
 
Dear Annunciata,

I was educated in the faith, but I do not have the
grace to see it as you see it.
I can’t reject grace that isn’t given to me.
Knowledge doesn’t equal grace.

Thanks for your thought,
reen12
 
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reen12:
There is no way in heaven that 40 years of
reading did not present me with the truths
of the faith.
Click to expand...
Does this mean that your reading has led you to think Catholicism is true?
 
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reen12:
Dear Annunciata,

I was educated in the faith, but I do not have the
grace to see it as you see it.
I can’t reject grace that isn’t given to me.
Knowledge doesn’t equal grace.

Thanks for your thought,
reen12
Click to expand...
Then,you know that there are two kinds of Grace: Sanctifying, which we get from the Sacraments…You’ve been brought up in the Faith so you have been Baptized and Confirmed…You have received First Communion and Penance…all giving tremendous Grace… And, the actual Graces He sends us constantly…
You know the picture of Him standing at the door knocking…there is no handle on the outside because YOU have to open your heart and let Him in!!! So, if you don’t or won’t let Him in then you are rejecting Him…
 
40.png
reen12:
In our dining room is a bookcase full of the
works of the early Fathers of the Church.

There is no way in heaven that 40 years of
reading did not present me with the truths
of the faith. But faith is a gift of grace, not
to be acquired by any knowledge I may have.
Thomas a Kempis was right in that regard,
I think.
Click to expand...
Hi reen12,

No, academic and scholarly understanding of Catholic theology is not what I meant. I meant study the attitude of a Saint or Pope which really turns you on and inspires you. For example, St. John the Baptist, St. Joan of Arc, St. Francis, St. Patrick, and St. Thomas Aquinas really turn me on and I am a big fan. I always enjoy reading or watching a movie about them. (I’m not too crazy about St. Jude). I am inspired by the life of St. Christopher and also St. Francis Xavier and his works, and martyrdom in Japan.

There are tons of Saint and Popes to choose from. There are tons of inspirational Psalms in the Bible.

Also keep in mind that life long chronic depression is a biological problem and not just a case of the blues. You might need medical attention plus a big dose of Roman Catholicism to keep you going.

By the way, if you do give up Roman Catholicism, then what? What is the alternative to the one true faith?
I think seeing a Priest and a medical doctor might be the way to save your faith.
I will say a prayer for you tomorrow morning at the 6am Mass. at a Franciscan Shrine (the Franciscan Friars are such cool guys, but I’m not so hot about the Jesuits, don’t tell anyone I said that.).
 
Dear KevinWalker,

I won’t breathe a word of your attitude about the
Jesuits. [Tho’ Fr. Mitch Pacwa seems to be
a dear heart.]

You know, I’ve been thinking about what you’ve
said. St. Francis of Assisi had a child-like heart,
didn’t he? *

And, yes, I’m familiar with the neurobiological
basis of depression and have taken the
necessary steps to deal with that medical
issue. This is what accounts for my great
interest in St. Benedict Joseph Labre.

reen12*
 
HOw long has it been since you went to confession?

I’m just thinking that there is a circumstance that we are not yet aware of that is causing you to turn away from what you know to be true.

There is no reason why you can not worship the God you knew when you were 6 yrs. old. and still be Catholic. All the info. out there about Catholicism is just for those that need it for understanding. As you said, knowledge doesn’t equal grace.

Pray to God. Worship God and look forward to seeing God when HE SAYS IT IS TIME. You seem to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. So, what is pulling you away? Do you have a circumstance that you find difficult to say in Confession? Do you avoid Confession and Communion?
 
reen12,

I browsed through your post and was caught by the part where you wanted to pray to the God you did when you were a 6 year old girl. God does not change as you probably know, we do instead.
I am reading a book off and on right now called “The Ways of Mental Prayer” (I got it from www.tanbooks.com it is helping me to see what prayer is about a little better.
Anyway, I remember when I was young I had a different view of God…I too have problems with things and always have a sort of longing and seek something.
You said you want to leave the faith of Catholicism, but I was looking again at your writing, not what you wrote, but how you wrote and it reminded me of poetry…I wonder if perhaps God is telling you to leave something, but not to leave the Faith, for if you know it to be the truth, then why leave when their is so much at risk? Have you ever thought that perhaps God is guiding you to leave your “way of life within the faith”? Have you considered that you are maybe meant to be a serious contemplative? There are those that seclude themselves from society completely to be totally with God, yet remain Catholic in every way and practice the faith (like the Cistercians) You can have your dreams and fufill your longing…there is indeed something in the way you come across from these post.
Something to think about…and to pray about…
Please remember this also…satan will stop at nothing to decieve us, he knows the true faith…and is jealous that we have a chance to be with God whom he rejected though we are lower than the angels…he constantly trys to make us feel like we do not have a chance…
May God bless you…
 
I’m wondering if God is using suffering to test you - to mold you.

So often we use our “feelings” to guide us in our relationship with Him.
But it is often in times of suffering, despair, isolation - that He teaches us the most important lessons about Himself.

Even Jesus cried out in anguish “why have you forsaken me?”

Mother Theresa spent much of her life doubting - and sometimes afraid.

I doubt God gives this test to those who cannot bear it.
Please consider offering this difficulty up to Him, and pray for Him to guide you in this time of trial.
 
Reen,

You sound like a devout Christian to me. All other churches pale in compairison to the Catholic Church. I drifted through a bunch of them and I can assure that if you plan to believe in God your gonna be right back in the CC. Why bother … the truth is the truth. If fear is the problem recognise it’s the devil and not the Church of Christ. Can all of this be beaten without the Lord?
-D
 
Dear Flick427,

You found me out. I am a poet. You’re also
absolutely correct about the contemplative life.
If you ever have time, please take a quick glance
at the life of St. Benedict Joseph Labre. It will
demonstrate what would have happen to a person
like me if I had tried to undertake such a life.
[he tried the Trappists and Carthusians several
times.]
I pray a good part of each day, frequently
saying;

Glory to God for the splendor of His creation,
Praise and thanksgiving to the Maker of all things.

I think He will allow me into His Presence one
day. I say with St. Thomas More,
“He would not refuse one who is so blithe
to go to Him.”
I think you are an insightful person, Flick.
reen 12
 
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reen12:
Hello.

Thanks, BulldogCath, for thinking that I have a
good heart…I like to think that I do. Those who
love me tell me that I do.

If you can bear with me for a short personal
annecdote:
I can remember, as if it was yesterday,

being 6 years old, sitting in a classroom,

the sunlight streaming in the window, a small

catechism opened to the first page,

and reading:

Who is God?

God is the Supreme Being Who made all

things.

My little heart sang with joy over this,

and my heart filled with a love of God that

has not diminished one iota in 50 plus years.

As I progressed through school, the

catechism got larger and more

complex…treating topics such as

what “types” of grace there are etc.’

and how each human is enmeshed in

original sin…til my head spun.

I would never have chosen this path

for myself. But it was my path, because
I was born into a Catholic family.

I have no intention of joining another Christian
denomination. I would like to embrace Judaism,
but I wouldn’t fit in there because I could not
pray that the Messiah will come…because maybe
He has already come.
All I want to do is to pray to the God I knew
when I was 6.
Someday I will go to a temple, just to
join in the prayers, not to convert.
I hope they’ll take me in. Maybe I could be
considered a “righteous Gentile.”

God bless each of your hearts,
reen12
Click to expand...
Hello Maureen,

I’ve read your postings here and thought I would respond because I have personal experience with someone I know that sounded very much like yourself.

You said, "
All I want to do is to pray to the God I knew
when I was 6."

Maureen, you are not 6 years old anymore! A 6 year old has a very immature and a very limited ability to grasp concepts regarding God. Even as adults we can only know God through what He has revealed to us. Most of God is unknowable. God requires or commands things from us. It isn’t good enough to just pray to God as you knew him when you were six. What about following the commands that he has given us? What about studying Scriptures to learn and know more about God? We grow up because that is what God intended for us to do. He intended for us to know him in a way that eventually is commensurate with age, study, doing, and wisdom. To have as your goal to pray to God as you knew him at 6 years of age is very irresponsible because it ignores the gift of the intellect, wisdom, compassion, and love that God has given to you to know not only him but others throughout our lives.

Let me say something about Judaism. The heart of Judaism is keeping the Torah. Keeping the Torah means doing what God commands. Keeping the laws and statutes. That is how Jews come to know and trust in God. And I can assure you that all they do not wish to do is to know God as they did as a 6 year old. So you can see that in both Judaism and Christianity we are called to follow God by doing his commands. “If you love me you will follow my commands.” There’s more to our lives than just praying to God. I am not trying to diminish prayer for I think it is a very crucial part of our being. The truth is, prayer is a very important tool to help us know and trust in God as we are the only beneficieries of prayer. But there is so much more than prayer. That is where I believe religion is important. It is yet another tool to know, trust, and develop a relationship with God. Perhaps if you look at it as a tool, something to use to build a bridge with to God then you might realize that you do not have to abandon your Catholic faith.

I’m sorry if I sounded harsh, Maureen. I don’t mean to. It’s just that I’ve been there and done that with somebody close that I know.

Love to you,
Scarlet
 
**Reen; **
You do not strike me as someone who really wants to abandon Catholicism…indeed, I think you know the Church is true deep in the recesses of your heart and soul…and in God’s eyes, the heart and soul are the most important parts of you. I think you are desperately looking for reasons to stay.
Rather than recommend more books to you, I’ll merely say that God only has to be as complicated as you make him. The Church doesn’t complicate God, it merely shows us who He is and points the way to Him. Very often, it is we who complicate matters with our own lack of ability to accept the Lord with a child-like faith.
 
Good morning, Scarlet,

I didn’t think that you sounded harsh at all.
I think that what you said was down to earth, and
reflected the reality of what constitutes maturity.

Maybe the following will convey my
reality:

I oversaw the care of my father, who had
schizophrenia, from age 19 to age 44.

I then segued into caring for my mother,
who has Altzheimer’s and who can no
longer even stand up.

I didn’t even have the luxury of irresponsiblity,
since reality arrived at my doorstep at an
early age.

I’ve spent my life caring for and about
people who have sizable limitations
in their lives.
I have used my intellect to intervene on
behalf of people who cannot care for
themselves.

And I have done this with the heart of a
six year old.

It’s time that I did something that will
soothe the heart of that little part of me,
that still moves and has her being in
“the Supreme Being that made all things.”

For me, that means moving among people
who relate soley to God the Father.

Thank you for taking the time to repond
in so thoughtful a manner to my original
post,

God bless you, Scarlet,
reen12
 
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reen12:
Good morning, Scarlet,

I didn’t think that you sounded harsh at all.
I think that what you said was down to earth, and
reflected the reality of what constitutes maturity.

Maybe the following will convey my
reality:

I oversaw the care of my father, who had
schizophrenia, from age 19 to age 44.

I then segued into caring for my mother,
who has Altzheimer’s and who can no
longer even stand up.

I didn’t even have the luxury of irresponsiblity,
since reality arrived at my doorstep at an
early age.

I’ve spent my life caring for and about
people who have sizable limitations
in their lives.
I have used my intellect to intervene on
behalf of people who cannot care for
themselves.

And I have done this with the heart of a
six year old.

It’s time that I did something that will
soothe the heart of that little part of me,
that still moves and has her being in
“the Supreme Being that made all things.”

For me, that means moving among people
who relate soley to God the Father.

Thank you for taking the time to repond
in so thoughtful a manner to my original
post,

God bless you, Scarlet,
reen12
Click to expand...
 
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