No Mass for Catholic group after woman performs service

[ProVobis]

A Catholic Bishop should not be ordaining women.

A woman cannot be a priest.

Both are automatically excommunicated if they even try. And good luck in trying to get that excommunication lifted.

 

[ProVobis]

I think women can take communion to people in the hospitals or jails too (with an even smaller ceremony than we do on Sundays at the Children’s Home (and Juvenile Hall).

And they should be properly trained. In some cases, patients aren’t permitted to take in any food, especially if they are being prepped for surgery. Been there recently. And ironically enough, those are the times when the patients could use their company and prayers but won’t get either.

 

[CaptFun]

And they should be properly trained. In some cases, patients aren’t permitted to take in any food, especially if they are being prepped for surgery. Been there recently. And ironically enough, those are the times when the patients could use their company and prayers but won’t get either.

If Holy Communion is the food that takes you out of this world …

- much better than … choking on a lamb chop

:newidea: - even a passover lamb chop !

blushing: Thanks for your take ProVobis. I feel obliged occasionally to live up (or down) to my humorous screen name).

When I worked at convalescent homes, it was mostly women who brought the people communion. Some of those were not even sick … but unable to get to mass, confined to wheelchairs etc. Sometimes the “service” was on a weekday, and as short as a sign of the cross, ONE bible reading, maybe an a capella song, and communion from the pyx.

Then the EM(s) was/were off to the next facility. Nothing of course made then seem like “priests”.

Of course a Eucharistic Minister should not contradict hospital rules by the way. AND should be adequately trained (for all eventualities) as you suggest.

 

[ProVobis]

If Holy Communion is the food that takes you out of this world …

I’ve often thought about this. I think I’d like a priest who will forgive me so that I can meet Christ in person.

 

[7_Sorrows]

If Holy Communion is the food that takes you out of this world …

- much better than … choking on a lamb chop

:newidea: - even a passover lamb chop !

blushing: Thanks for your take ProVobis. I feel obliged occasionally to live up (or down) to my humorous screen name).

When I worked at convalescent homes, it was mostly women who brought the people communion. Some of those were not even sick … but unable to get to mass, confined to wheelchairs etc. Sometimes the “service” was on a weekday, and as short as a sign of the cross, ONE bible reading, maybe an a capella song, and communion from the pyx.

Then the EM(s) was/were off to the next facility. Nothing of course made then seem like “priests”.

Of course a Eucharistic Minister should not contradict hospital rules by the way. AND should be adequately trained (for all eventualities) as you suggest.

But these women are bringing hosts that have been consecrated by the priest already. and they are not coming to the facility or the person’s home to conduct Mass. They are bringing the hosts to the homebound which I was grateful for when I broke my ankle.

 

[ProVobis]

But these women are bringing hosts that have been consecrated by the priest already. and they are not coming to the facility or the person’s home to conduct Mass. They are bringing the hosts to the homebound which I was grateful for when I broke my ankle.

I would not be that grateful if they didn’t understand that one must be disposed properly for the reception. It seems to me to be desacralizing the sacrament to be passing it around like candy. I had a recent hospital stay, and because of acute pancreatitis, it was retching enough. As I said before, they would be more useful to me if they were to say prayers for me. Aside from confession to a priest, I ask for no more.

 

[CaptFun]

But these women are bringing hosts that have been consecrated by the priest already. and they are not coming to the facility or the person’s home to conduct Mass. They are bringing the hosts to the homebound which I was grateful for when I broke my ankle.

Yes God bless them. One further thing:

While the priesthood was ordained by God and was (and is) all male - the taking of the Eucharist elsewhere has been around since St. Tarcisius. < A child martyr who was clandestinely taking the Eucharist to prisoners in Rome – as the guards paid no attention to children.

ewtn.com/library/MARY/TARCIS.htm

excerpt

ST. TARCISIUS
Tarcisius was a twelve-year-old acolyte during one of the fierce Roman persecutions of the third century, probably during that of Valerian. Each day, from a secret meeting place in the catacombs where Christians gathered for Mass, a deacon would be sent to the prisons to carry the Eucharist to those Christians condemned to die. At one point, there was no deacon to send and so St. Tarcisius, an acolyte, was sent carrying the “Holy Mysteries” to those in prison.

On the way, he was stopped by boys his own age who were not Christians but knew him as a playmate and lover of games. He was asked to join their games, but this time he refused and the crowd of boys noticed that he was carrying something. Somehow, he was also recognized as a Christian, and the small gang of boys, anxious to view the Christian “Mysteries,” became a mob and turned upon Tarcisius with fury. He went down under the blows, and it is believed that a fellow Christian drove off the mob and rescued the young acolyte.

The mangled body of Tarcisius was carried back to the catacombs, but the boy died on the way from his injuries. He was buried in the cemetery of St. Callistus, and his relics are claimed by the church of San Silvestro in Capite.

I don’t remember seeing many (any!) extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist when I was a kid. But since there started being laypeople invited up to the altar to be deputized to distribute communion … both sexes have been represented. Women sometimes more so.

The incident at hand of this woman performing a service sounds at first blush to be a slighting of authority - unto a rejection of it possibly - rather than acting under authority.

 

[pnewton]

If they are accepting ordained women and having them preside over mass, I don’t think they are going to stop having mass just because of a letter.

This group seems very devoted and passionate about their beliefs.

.

I sure they are very devoted and passionate, just not very Catholic, at least in this instance. Bringing in an excommunicated Catholic to practice this fakery is not the action of faithful Catholics.

I will not hold this against all of the Catholic Workers. As far as I know, this could simply be the actions of one, or a few of activist catholic dissenters, wolves within the fold, as it were.

 

[ProVobis]

I don’t remember seeing many (any!) extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist when I was a kid.

Yet people still visited the sick and the sick were grateful.

Just sayin…

 

[Cirdan_XII]

It’s invalid and is spelled out in the Catechism 1577. It also results in an automatic excommunication of both the woman and the bishop. Only the Holy See can lift those excommunications.

What about protestant woman priests then?

Doesn’t the Catholic Church recognise the validity of a marriage performed by a non catholic priest for example. So suppose a woman priest marries a couple, what is of the validity of their marriage? If the Catholic Church started to condemn every time a woman priest performed or simulated a sacrament, they would be complaing non stop.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

A Catholic Bishop should not be ordaining women.

A woman cannot be a priest.

And I guess before he can ordain her, she must have attended seminary.

What sort of a seminary enrolls women participants?

Surely such a seminary ought to be reported to the relevanmt authority immediately. How can something like this slip under the radar for so long?

 

[ProVobis]

What sort of a seminary enrolls women participants?

I believe there have been women in the seminaries, both teachers and students, for a long time now. There is no law prohibiting them from getting degrees in divinity or theology.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

I believe there have been women in the seminaries, both teachers and students, for a long time now. There is no law prohibiting them from getting degrees in divinity or theology.

But aren’t they then attending different courses from those attended by men seeking to be priests? So how come she managed to fulfil all the course requirements to be even admitted for consecration?

 

[ProVobis]

But aren’t they then attending different courses from those attended by men seeking to be priests? So how come she managed to fulfil all the course requirements to be even admitted for consecration?

As I understand it, there are more than course requirements to be admitted, and the bishops take it from there. My question would be how do the women even make it to the diaconate level?

 

[CaptFun]

Yet people still visited the sick and the sick were grateful.

Just sayin…

:sad_yes: back in THAT day there were more priests per capita to visit hospitals, etc. too it seemed. Bishop Sheen spoke of doing that duty in one of his talks. Taking Eucharist to a hospital.

Religious orders of nuns and brothers worked in hospitals too besides any lay volunteers. They may have done bedside prayer etc. at that. Were there acolytes and deacons taking the Eucharist to hospitals and prisons even back then 50s - 70s and earlier – that I just didn’t see or know about? May-be. Not women back then is my guess.

And none under dubious color of authority acting as priestesses or such. :nope: - nuh-uh imo.

 

[CaptFun]

But aren’t they then attending different courses from those attended by men seeking to be priests? So how come she managed to fulfil all the course requirements to be even admitted for consecration?

One thought on that. Don’t know about THIS case - but litigious political groups are looking to sue “deep pockets” targets from time to time - and perceived sexism per denial of a woman to any stage of that (like taking a college course at a University required for seminarians) might be endured rather than challenged per legal and fiscal reasons until she had completed similar prerequisites (not to give the Church’s enemies any ideas).

A sympathetic EEOC or Justice Department (or one hostile to certain Church teachings - at odds with whatever ‘transformation of America’ program is popular at the time) might speed “her” case forward through the courts to gain State over Church rulings that punish their perceived antagonists (the Church in that case).

shaw: Not like any of THAT would/could * EVER* hap-pen! … … :hypno: … whuh - oh …

 

[Usige]

What about protestant woman priests then?

Doesn’t the Catholic Church recognise the validity of a marriage performed by a non catholic priest for example. So suppose a woman priest marries a couple, what is of the validity of their marriage? If the Catholic Church started to condemn every time a woman priest performed or simulated a sacrament, they would be complaing non stop.

There may be women ministers, but no protestant has priests… male or female.

The only two sacraments the Church accept as retained by protestants are baptism and marriage (and most protestants reject marriage as a sacrament - go figure). Both these sacraments are interesting in the fact that they do not require holy orders to administer. Baptism is validly conferred by anyone with the intent to baptize as the church does. In marriage a member of the clergy act as a witness, but it is the couple themselves that confer the sacrament.

There is no reason for them to “condemn” someone any time that female ministers simulate a sacrament. Why? Because most would be invalid if done by a male or female. Most protestants dont even hold to the same sacramental theology. What is eggrarious in this case is that the women knowingly reject devine and papal authority. They are both heretical and schismatic and should not perpetuate a lie that they are members of the Catholic clergy.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I believe there have been women in the seminaries, both teachers and students, for a long time now. There is no law prohibiting them from getting degrees in divinity or theology.

Some of the schools here in the San Francisco Bay Area have more women than men as students.

 

[ProVobis]

Religious orders of nuns and brothers worked in hospitals too besides any lay volunteers. They may have done bedside prayer etc. at that. Were there acolytes and deacons taking the Eucharist to hospitals and prisons even back then 50s - 70s and earlier – that I just didn’t see or know about? May-be. Not women back then is my guess.

The laity handling holy communion would have been seen as desecrating the sacrament, to put it mildly. While I don’t have a problem with this per se, (at least I don’t want argue about it further) I have to wonder if those people bringing communion to the sick, knowing everyone is not cut out to be a EMHC, whether they’re concerned more with their own spirituality or their patients. There seems to be an awful lot of gloating from the EMHC’s who post on CAF.

 

[Corki]

But aren’t they then attending different courses from those attended by men seeking to be priests? So how come she managed to fulfil all the course requirements to be even admitted for consecration?

The course work is the same or nearly so. It is the other aspects of seminary studies that women do not participate in. For example, seminarians spend time in parishes, attend workshops on homiletics and most importantly go through intensive discernment with a spiritual advisor (or more than one). They formally pass through the steps of lector and acolyte (formerly called minor orders) and the transitional diaconate.

Merely having a degree from a seminary doesn’t quality one for ordination.