No Muslims Allowed

[Path_Finder]

motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2

There is Cho from Korea, there is the Fort Hood shooter, there is a Native American.

And as bad as these events are, the number is surely .01 of a single 1 percentage point if that high of the type of violence that is routinely seen in the Middle East.

So we are comparing 200 people killed maybe to 190,000 fatalities and 3 million refugees in the Syrian war since 2010? Really?

Radical Islam has declared us their enemy just the same way, Iran seems to have made threatening statements towards Israel. Does Israel simply say, “well, there aren’t any Israeli Iranians that have threatened us”, no, Israel sees this as a problem.

Blanket discrimination is wrong, to a point but Morgan’s points to seem valid. It does seem to show some serious flaws in the Theocracy and she never could open up a gun store in Iran or Saudi Arabia, sure, say Israel but Israel, how about that, has legitimate safety concerns. That in KSA and Iran is just because that is how the law works, no matter how safe they could be.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2

There is Cho from Korea, there is the Fort Hood shooter, there is a Native American.

And as bad as these events are, the number is surely .01 of a single 1 percentage point if that high of the type of violence that is routinely seen in the Middle East.

So we are comparing 200 people killed maybe to 190,000 fatalities and 3 million refugees in the Syrian war since 2010? Really?

Radical Islam has declared us their enemy just the same way, Iran seems to have made threatening statements towards Israel. Does Israel simply say, “well, there aren’t any Israeli Iranians that have threatened us”, no, Israel sees this as a problem.

Blanket discrimination is wrong, to a point but Morgan’s points to seem valid. It does seem to show some serious flaws in the Theocracy and she never could open up a gun store in Iran or Saudi Arabia, sure, say Israel but Israel, how about that, has legitimate safety concerns. That in KSA and Iran is just because that is how the law works, no matter how safe they could be.

You keep talking about and point to acts done by Muslim extremists, but then you keep supporting discrimination against all Muslims. One would begin to think that you are under the false impression that they (Muslims in general, and Muslim extremists) are one in the same.

I’ll just be direct- Do you think a person just being Muslim is grounds to be concerned about what they do?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

And as bad as these events are, the number is surely .01 of a single 1 percentage point if that high of the type of violence that is routinely seen in the Middle East.

The last time I looked, Arkansas was not in the Middle East. So the potential Muslim clients at the shooting range would not be Middle East Muslims. So the statistics about what Muslims do in the Middle East is irrelevant.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

The last time I looked, Arkansas was not in the Middle East. So the potential Muslim clients at the shooting range would not be Middle East Muslims. So the statistics about what Muslims do in the Middle East is irrelevant.

Actually, if you read the statement the owner put out as to why she was banning Muslims from her range you will find that most of it is similarly irrelevant. After reading her statement, I believe the true motive behind her act can be found here- “The government allows businesses to ban me from entering their business with my gun because the property owner feels uncomfortable or wants to provide a “safe” environment for their patrons which is in clear violation of my 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, so… I should be ale to deny service to people on the same premise. Can my government really force me to invite someone who had threatened to kill me, into my home or business?”

 

[ishii]

If the concern was safety of women, her sign would read “No Men” since the vast majority of murders and rapes are conducted by men. But, why let facts get in the way of using the good old “those darn liberals” statements.

And how many of those rapes and murders by men take place at a gun range? I’m guessing none.

Ishii

 

[oldcatholicguy]

And how many of those rapes and murders by men take place at a gun range? I’m guessing none.

Ishii

How many terrorist attacks have taken place at gun ranges? I’m guessing even less than the number of murders and rapes at gun ranges. Thanks for confirming that there was no justifiable reason for the owner to have put up her “No Muslim” sign.

Edit- cnn.com/2013/02/03/justice/texas-sniper-killed/ Oh look, murder at a gun range. Guess she needs to throw up a “No Veterans” sign next to her “No Muslims” sign.

Edit to the edit- even more murders at a gun range- crimelibrary.com/blog/article/death-at-the-gun-range-five-firearm-deaths-in-firearm-friendly-environments/index.html

 

[ishii]

How many terrorist attacks have taken place at gun ranges? I’m guessing even less than the number of murders and rapes at gun ranges. Thanks for confirming that there was no justifiable reason for the owner to have put up her “No Muslim” sign.

Edit- cnn.com/2013/02/03/justice/texas-sniper-killed/ Oh look, murder at a gun range. Guess she needs to throw up a “No Veterans” sign next to her “No Muslims” sign.

Edit to the edit- even more murders at a gun range- crimelibrary.com/blog/article/death-at-the-gun-range-five-firearm-deaths-in-firearm-friendly-environments/index.html

How many female co-workers were beheaded prior to this week? How many terrorist attacks took place against the WTC before 9/11?

Ishii

 

[oldcatholicguy]

How many female co-workers were beheaded prior to this week? How many terrorist attacks took place against the WTC before 9/11?

Ishii

Yeah, so I should assume there haven’t been any terrorist attacks at gun ranges? But hey, thanks to your question about murders and rapes at gun ranges we now know you are more likely to be murdered at a gun range by a non-Muslim white male military veteran than be a victim of a terrorist attack at one. I wonder if the owner of the gun range in Arkansas can find a small enough font to put up a “No Whites, Men, or Veterans” sign next to her “No Muslims” sign.

 

[GaryTaylor]

So we don’t have any examples of, say for instance, Christians murdering doctors and/or bombing abortion clinics in the name of God and using their particular version of Christianity to justify their acts? And we don’t have say, racist groups and organizations that label themselves as Christian and claim that their racism and related acts of violence are justified by their faith?

As for this “has never occurred with any assimilation process”- What American history books are you using? I’m pretty sure, and please correct me if I’m wrong, the assimilation process of the Native Americans into the US culture was rather far more bloody and horrible and over a much longer period than anything we are seeing regarding the assimilation of Muslims into the US culture. Oh wait, I see where I went wrong, that doesn’t count because the victims weren’t of European descent. I guess the would also exclude the assimilation process of Americans of African descent, Asian descent, Hispanics, etc, etc, etc. Silly me.

being social politically inclusive in its religious practice I’d say its in conflict today

No we have nothing to compare a world wide agenda of radical jihad terrorists to which has spiraled out of control and threatens America. People have the right to be concerned voice their disapproval or approval. Unfortunately they don’t want to assimilate they want to kill you for not converting to that insanity. The isis sympathizers unfortunately are a bad example of good muslims. Unfortunately it calls into question the islamic doctrine just as the Catholic doctrine is called in question in the USA with separation of Church and state. They didn’t call Catholics and evangelicals extremists for no reason. So equal is equal as I see. And yes by all means if people want to protest the Catholic Church thats their American right also, nothing new either. If Catholic’s were running around worldwide cutting heads off I might put a no Catholics allowed sign on my house and it would be my American right. I have a US flag faded as its been up a long time, I don’t believe in taking them down.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

No we have nothing to compare a world wide agenda of radical jihad terrorists to which has spiraled out of control and threatens America. People have the right to be concerned voice their disapproval or approval. Unfortunately they don’t want to assimilate they want to kill you for not converting to that insanity. The isis sympathizers unfortunately are a bad example of good muslims. Unfortunately it calls into question the islamic doctrine just as the Catholic doctrine is called in question in the USA with separation of Church and state. They didn’t call Catholics and evangelicals extremists for no reason. So equal is equal as I see. And yes by all means if people want to protest the Catholic Church thats their American right also, nothing new either. If Catholic’s were running around worldwide cutting heads off I might put a no Catholics allowed sign on my house and it would be my American right. I have a US flag faded as its been up a long time, I don’t believe in taking them down.

Let’s see your post I responded to- “We haven’t proved assimilation with Islam and because of its process of conversion by the sword and being social politically inclusive in its religious practice I’d say its in conflict today with above as its definitely a contrast concern to the American way of life by insistent agenda and violence. Its incompatible without separation of Church and state. We have already assimilated to this here. We have no issue here with violent Christians killing in Gods name contrary to Americas laws and constitution. Islam began flourishing here approx 50 years ago. How many years have we been back and forth with islamic terrorism 35? This has never occured with any assimilation process. Id say we have a major issue.”

-pretty clearly limits your concern to assimilation of Muslims into US society and makes the claim of “We have no issue here with violent Christians killing in Gods name contrary to Americas laws and constitution.” Mind telling me why you decided to go ahead and revise your comment to talk about what is going on in the world? Could it be because there actually is a long history of Christians in the US using violence justified by their faith to forcibly assimilate non-Christian peoples (such as the Native Americans) into US culture and because there are actually easy to find (if one bothers to look for them) examples of Christians in the US using their faith to justify murder, bombings, racism, etc?

 

[TEPO]

The last time I looked, Arkansas was not in the Middle East. So the potential Muslim clients at the shooting range would not be Middle East Muslims. So the statistics about what Muslims do in the Middle East is irrelevant.

I dont understand how you can say for certain which Muslims believe in literal interpretation of the koran and which ones dont. Show me proof of your statistics. How many American Muslims do not believe in literally compared to those in the Middle East?

 

[TEPO]

Let’s see your post I responded to- “We haven’t proved assimilation with Islam and because of its process of conversion by the sword and being social politically inclusive in its religious practice I’d say its in conflict today with above as its definitely a contrast concern to the American way of life by insistent agenda and violence. Its incompatible without separation of Church and state. We have already assimilated to this here. We have no issue here with violent Christians killing in Gods name contrary to Americas laws and constitution. Islam began flourishing here approx 50 years ago. How many years have we been back and forth with islamic terrorism 35? This has never occured with any assimilation process. Id say we have a major issue.”

-pretty clearly limits your concern to assimilation of Muslims into US society and makes the claim of “We have no issue here with violent Christians killing in Gods name contrary to Americas laws and constitution.” Mind telling me why you decided to go ahead and revise your comment to talk about what is going on in the world? Could it be because there actually is a long history of Christians in the US using violence justified by their faith to forcibly assimilate non-Christian peoples (such as the Native Americans) into US culture and because there are actually easy to find (if one bothers to look for them) examples of Christians in the US using their faith to justify murder, bombings, racism, etc?

So to you, all ideologies and religions are to be treated equally in the USA? Then you must also think that KKK members have the legal right to enter into American politics to govern American law, and have all the same rights to gather and do business in trying to live out the values of the KKK, whether they take all the values literally or not.

…and if the KKK treats minorities less than human and teaches about how hangings better society, then those teachings deserve protection and respect equal to any other teaching?

…because if not, that would be discrimination.

 

[ringil]

So to you, all ideologies and religions are to be treated equally in the USA? Then you must also think that KKK members have the legal right to enter into American politics to govern American law, and have all the same rights to gather and do business in trying to live out the values of the KKK, whether they take all the values literally or not…

Well, David Duke has run for national office so anyone is allowed to run for office.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I dont understand how you can say for certain which Muslims believe in literal interpretation of the koran and which ones dont. Show me proof of your statistics. How many American Muslims do not believe in literally compared to those in the Middle East?

There are about 2,600,000 Muslims in the US. Those 2,600,000 are clearly not all planning mass shootings. But no one has answered my question about how the shooting range owner would practically enforce her ban. It is a toothless declaration, meant only to stir up controversy, which she has done quite well.

 

[Path_Finder]

190,000 persons have died in the Syrian War since 2010, 3 million refugees, the best folks can do is somehow bring out mass shootings in the US whose total is something like 100 persons and refer to largely unknown African countries and compare that to Global Jihad. Then declare these two situations being equal.

This woman has done business with Muslims and debated them before so obviously, she does know who some Muslims are. Would she be aware of every Muslim who would come into her store. No, since Muslims are in every country and has spread from Europe to Africa to as Far East as Malaysia and Philippines. All of those countries having a radical element.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

190,000 persons have died in the Syrian War since 2010, 3 million refugees, the best folks can do is somehow bring out mass shootings in the US whose total is something like 100 persons and refer to largely unknown African countries and compare that to Global Jihad. Then declare these two situations being equal.

As I said before, statistics about what happens in Syria or anywhere else are irrelevant since Arkansas is in the US. The only relevant statistic would be the number of Muslim-inspired shootings in the US.

This woman has done business with Muslims and debated them before so obviously, she does know who some Muslims are. Would she be aware of every Muslim who would come into her store. No, since Muslims are in every country and has spread from Europe to Africa to as Far East as Malaysia and Philippines.

Then all she can do is ban the specific Muslims she has had contact with and who frightened her so. But she could have done that without a sign that said “Muslim free zone”. She could have just said “Hey, I recognize you from the debate last night. Get out of here!” And she would have been within her rights under the previously mentioned discretion that every gun shop owner has. There was no reason to attempt the meaningless generalization to all Muslims, which she knows she cannot enforce, other than to draw attention to herself, and oddly enough, actually make her life more dangerous because of the notoriety. No sane person would make deliberately provocative and at the same time unenforceable declarations in order to increase their safety. But if their goal is to win fame for the statement, then it is a very sane thing to do.

 

[Path_Finder]

I can’t believe some posters in this thread would defend a theocracy that uses the Koran, a book that commands its believers to terrorize, behead, hate those who do not convert or submit to Islam, that has honor killings allowing parents to kill their children and the stoning of women. :whacky:

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I can’t believe some posters in this thread would defend a theocracy that uses the Koran, a book that commands its believers to terrorize, behead, hate those who do not convert or submit to Islam, that has honor killings allowing parents to kill their children and the stoning of women. :whacky:

I’m not defending Islam. I’m defending the laws of the United States and the teachings of the Catholic Church. But instead of a generic response like this, how about answering my specific points, if you can?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I can’t believe some posters in this thread would defend a theocracy that uses the Koran, a book that commands its believers to terrorize, behead, hate those who do not convert or submit to Islam, that has honor killings allowing parents to kill their children and the stoning of women. :whacky:

Do you think a person just being Muslim is grounds to be concerned about what they do?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

So to you, all ideologies and religions are to be treated equally in the USA? Then you must also think that KKK members have the legal right to enter into American politics to govern American law, and have all the same rights to gather and do business in trying to live out the values of the KKK, whether they take all the values literally or not.

…and if the KKK treats minorities less than human and teaches about how hangings better society, then those teachings deserve protection and respect equal to any other teaching?

…because if not, that would be discrimination.

Well according to American law, all ideologies and religions are to be treated equally in the US and it is actually legal for KKK members to enter into American politics and govern American law and they have the same rights to gather and do business, etc, etc, etc. I very sure the poster with the faded American flag out front of his house because he is so patriotic can tell you all this.

My question to you concerns your comparison of the religion of Islam to the KKK. Are you claiming that Islam is a racist hate organization like the KKK?