No sense of community

[ServantofMary]

Remember St Paul’s saying about feeding people on milk at first and only then getting to the meat when they’re good and ready for it? Private study of scripture and the like is the meatiest meat, and not everyone is nearly ready for it.

Very excellent point! I was also going to mention that the average person in the pew really isn’t that interested in sitting down and discussing the Scriptures, and it has nothing to do with them not being good Christians. I know several people who have great faith in God, they always show God’s love to others, they have an awesome prayer life, and a growing spiritual life. But sitting down and discussing the latest papal encyclical or the Scriptures just isn’t their “thing.” We (me included) need to be careful not to compare the spirituality of others with our own personal passions. For example, just because I may have a passion to sit down an discuss theology with others, that doesn’t mean that someone who doesn’t share that passion (like my wife ) isn’t as good of a Christian that I am.

 

[Bryan77]

Where I live, there is a “Catholic Campus Ministry” at the college here. (University of New Mexico) I went to their website, and it sounds like exactly the kind cure to my complaints earlier, and this post as a whole. They have retreats, and other kinds of Christian activities. to me it sounds like an actual community! On all Saints Day, every other church started super early, or at weird times when I was at work, and this was the only one whose mass I was able to attend, so I went. I saw people my age (22ish), and overheard conversations about some “retreat” and stuff. But I felt weird not being a student. And of course Obviously I wouldn’t be able to attend any of these activities, or even be a part of this community, since I don’t go to school here.

Just because someone isn’t a student at the moment doesn’t mean that they like being alone in their faith. Something is wrong with this picture!

 

[mamaslo]

You be the difference. If you want community you be community for others. Don’t gossip, don’t detract, support leadership and help them. Listen well to others and figure out ways to help…You be the hands and feet of Jesus…you already are and so are they, but maybe they are afraid or need help to change things.

 

[may_they_be_one]

This is a great topic-- thanks joshrp for caring about REALLY living out the faith of the apostles!

Has anyone noticed the 15/85 phenomenon? 15% (or less) of a parish’s/church’s members are regularly involved in 85% (or more) of the volunteer/community-building/etc opportunities. Of course some fun events attract a much higher percent, but for day-to-day, “core” gatherings (prayer/bible study) of the Body, it seems to be the same few people comfortable enough with their faith to lead the charge.

What is causing this lack of comfort with their faith? I believe its due to a TREMENDOUS lack of true preaching of the Gospel, better known as evangelization, in the vast majority of RCC parishes. This lack of preaching the Good News obviously can be attributed to the DISMAL 10-15 minutes/week dedicated to this ESSENTIAL job assigned by Christ himself after his resurrection. The Bishops need to seriously consider reforming the way homilies are treated by the majority of priests. There is absolutely NO WAY that 10-15 minutes per week will bring about serious fruit for evangelization of most Mass attenders. Given the stats on how most Catholics behave (premarital sex, divorce, excessive drinking, lewdness, etc etc etc) we should treat every Sunday Mass as an opportunity to evangelize, instead of treating Sundays as a time when the true believers in Christ gather.

And before I am criticized, I am only speaking from personal experience. The vast majority of my Catholic school friends, once we hit high school/college, took on the behaviors of the lost world. We were never evangelized, hence, we had no fruit of true repentance and faith in the Gospel. My conversion occurred after stumbling across evangelical Christian radio, where the Gospel was preached hour after hour. I found repentance and true faith, and from then forward, began living out a MUCH more obedient and holy life. Going to Mass for 18 years FAITHFULLY every Sunday didn’t convert me; it took a few weeks of hearing the Word preached on evangelical radio to do that most important job!

We need to gather and exhort and read/preach the Word to one another! You don’t know how many of your “Catholic” brethren are not really Catholic. The best way to describe their faith practice is superstition. So many of the Catholics sitting in the Sunday pews have never heard the Gospel preached, and follow “dead” rituals and rules and laws for decades of their lives without ever taking the first simple step of true repentance and belief in the Gospel.

Please pray for our Bishops to wake up and begin the process of evangelizing our lost priests, and exhorting the true believers to evangelize with all their hearts. The harvest is great, but the workers are few! And time is short.

By the way, I still try my best to live out my Catholic faith practice. I do not consider myself having left the Church.

 

[iloveangels]

:angel1:

I’ve been lurking on the Catholic Answers Forum for quite a white, and this post made me decide to actually register and post, because I agree completely and I have an issue with this, and it frustrates me!

I’m trying to grow in my faith, but it’s hard to do that alone. When most of your friends don’t have catholic values it makes you the loner, and you don’t really have anyone to talk to about your faith. I believe that one thing that will really help me be a better catholic would be to be around fellow Catholics, and be friends with them. I’m 22, and at most of the time there’s hardly anyone around my age at mass, and if there is what am I supposed to do? Run up to them after mass and say “Hey let’s be catholic friends!” that would be weird. This would be extra weird if if she were a cute girl (Hey, If I’m going to date someone I’d rather her be catholic. with no sense of community this seems impossible.)

It seems that protestants have all kinds of bible studies and fun little community things in which they are all a family of friends in which together they can grow in their faith. there seems to be none of this for us Catholics. Just like you said joshrp, it’s like we’re all loners in our faith. I see what my “non denominational” friends (or whatever they call themselves) have with their community of religious friends, and it’s beautiful! I want that! but there’s nothing for us. It’s a little disheartening.

I even had a conversation about this with a non catholic friend, and his main gripe with the church is that he feels that it’s not very welcoming (IE no sense of community)

This is actually a very common problem, and if you’ve converted from a Protestant church that just seems to make it worse, yes. Look at your diocesan paper for classes you can attend and programs you can volunteer with to get to know some other Catholics. Catholics don’t have the same kind of structure that Protestants do and it can be a little off-putting to someone who is used to a lot of fellowship in Protestant churches. IN addition, some cradle catholics don’t like to talk about their faith and may actually act like they’re ashamed of it. However, in Protestant churches, there are more important things you can’t get, right? I’m happily Catholic but I have to work at it.

mc

PS. There is a program called “DISCOVERING CHRIST” that you might like. It’s a video series with conversations and food. They do talk about the big issues in depth and you meet people. You might enjoy it, Josh. I have been. Here’s a link to their stuff because it’s hard to find due to the name: christlife.org/discover/

 

[fred_conty]

This is a great topic-- thanks joshrp for caring about REALLY living out the faith of the apostles!

Has anyone noticed the 15/85 phenomenon? 15% (or less) of a parish’s/church’s members are regularly involved in 85% (or more) of the volunteer/community-building/etc opportunities. Of course some fun events attract a much higher percent, but for day-to-day, “core” gatherings (prayer/bible study) of the Body, it seems to be the same few people comfortable enough with their faith to lead the charge.

What is causing this lack of comfort with their faith? I believe its due to a TREMENDOUS lack of true preaching of the Gospel, better known as evangelization, in the vast majority of RCC parishes. This lack of preaching the Good News obviously can be attributed to the DISMAL 10-15 minutes/week dedicated to this ESSENTIAL job assigned by Christ himself after his resurrection. The Bishops need to seriously consider reforming the way homilies are treated by the majority of priests. There is absolutely NO WAY that 10-15 minutes per week will bring about serious fruit for evangelization of most Mass attenders. Given the stats on how most Catholics behave (premarital sex, divorce, excessive drinking, lewdness, etc etc etc) we should treat every Sunday Mass as an opportunity to evangelize, instead of treating Sundays as a time when the true believers in Christ gather.

And before I am criticized, I am only speaking from personal experience. The vast majority of my Catholic school friends, once we hit high school/college, took on the behaviors of the lost world. We were never evangelized, hence, we had no fruit of true repentance and faith in the Gospel. My conversion occurred after stumbling across evangelical Christian radio, where the Gospel was preached hour after hour. I found repentance and true faith, and from then forward, began living out a MUCH more obedient and holy life. Going to Mass for 18 years FAITHFULLY every Sunday didn’t convert me; it took a few weeks of hearing the Word preached on evangelical radio to do that most important job!

We need to gather and exhort and read/preach the Word to one another! You don’t know how many of your “Catholic” brethren are not really Catholic. The best way to describe their faith practice is superstition. So many of the Catholics sitting in the Sunday pews have never heard the Gospel preached, and follow “dead” rituals and rules and laws for decades of their lives without ever taking the first simple step of true repentance and belief in the Gospel.

Please pray for our Bishops to wake up and begin the process of evangelizing our lost priests, and exhorting the true believers to evangelize with all their hearts. The harvest is great, but the workers are few! And time is short.

By the way, I still try my best to live out my Catholic faith practice. I do not consider myself having left the Church.

Well said about not being evangelised. We could learn a lot from Billy Grahm, a great
spiritual man. I would make a better selection of a church than him, but he has a
terrific way of opening up people’s heart to Jesus and helping them to touch Him as
the sick woman in the bible did. Jesus becomes alive and real, not just a subject to be
be studied. In fact I have often thought the CC should have a special service
periodically in a similiar way to Grahm’s to help our people to commit themselves and
really experience the closeness of Jesus. Having said that, I do know that Communion
does do that for many. But so many are missing this vitality. Even the Catechism
mentions that a person should go thru this experience at least once in their life.

Someone mentioned that they went to Catholic schools but still didn’t have what they
needed. I agree. Again the closeness cannot be taught. It has to be experienced.
One has to “know” Jesus, not “know of” Jesus to make an impact in their lives.
Some have little knowledge of their faith, which I am not advocating, but still they are
seemingly warm, kind, and caring people. Knowledge helps, but that’s not “it”.

One of the things that helps us to keep the faith is giving it away by doing
something worthwhile for someone else. Just anything along this line will make
a difference. Our life dries up if we don’t. Concentrating on others in the
most simple ways draws God’s goodness upon us. Others are always more
needy than we are and the divine interest payment is great.

 

[iloveangels]

Well said about not being evangelised.

True. Many Catholics haven’t learned a new thing about their faith in ages and can be very resolute about not learning anything. As a result, some of them don’t know the first thing about Christianity even though they go through all the moves (sort of) and repeat all the “code phrases.” It can be very discouraging, and even baffling for a convert. But I think we’re headed into a time where that’s going to change a bit, I certainly hope. There are many orthodox and wonderful things to learn about the faith!

 

[Brun_0]

I “converted” back from Protestantism and do find a lack of community in my suburban church.

Big protestant churches can be better for fellowship because they have denominations specifically geared for the ‘nicer’ crowd. They are almost marketed that way. Catholicism is one flavor fits all so it all depends on the neighbourhood which is why my suburban church is the way it is.

 

[littleflower77]

Where I live, there is a “Catholic Campus Ministry” at the college here. (University of New Mexico) I went to their website, and it sounds like exactly the kind cure to my complaints earlier, and this post as a whole. They have retreats, and other kinds of Christian activities. to me it sounds like an actual community! On all Saints Day, every other church started super early, or at weird times when I was at work, and this was the only one whose mass I was able to attend, so I went. I saw people my age (22ish), and overheard conversations about some “retreat” and stuff. But I felt weird not being a student. And of course Obviously I wouldn’t be able to attend any of these activities, or even be a part of this community, since I don’t go to school here.

Just because someone isn’t a student at the moment doesn’t mean that they like being alone in their faith. Something is wrong with this picture!

The retreats at my university are open to all students. I know that some students at other schools actually help run our retreat. I also think that any college aged person is welcome on the retreats. I would definitely send that church an email to see if you can go.

 

[Dorothy]

Where I live, there is a “Catholic Campus Ministry” at the college here. (University of New Mexico) I went to their website, and it sounds like exactly the kind cure to my complaints earlier, and this post as a whole. They have retreats, and other kinds of Christian activities. to me it sounds like an actual community! On all Saints Day, every other church started super early, or at weird times when I was at work, and this was the only one whose mass I was able to attend, so I went. I saw people my age (22ish), and overheard conversations about some “retreat” and stuff. But I felt weird not being a student. And of course Obviously I wouldn’t be able to attend any of these activities, or even be a part of this community, since I don’t go to school here.

Just because someone isn’t a student at the moment doesn’t mean that they like being alone in their faith. Something is wrong with this picture!

There doesn’t seem to me to be any reason why you should not be able to attend the spiritual and social activities of these young people.

 

[mathematoons]

I have the same problem. Every parish I’ve been to, there’s no community at all. I ask about it, and they get defensive. I figure it’s just not God’s will for us to have community at this point in time. After all, some Protestants say the community in their churches is a distraction, with all the gossip and being forced to attend too many events.

Myself, I’ve abandoned the idea of close Catholic friends. Since I don’t relate to non-Catholics (or liberal “Catholics”) well enough to get close to one, that means my only friends are God and my mom. Perhaps when I finally get confirmed this next Easter, I’ll be able to join Knights of Columbus. That’s where Catholic men who want to meet other Catholics go.

You want community? Be a good person. You’ll have all the community you can stand in Heaven.

 

[Dorothy]

I have the same problem. Every parish I’ve been to, there’s no community at all. I ask about it, and they get defensive. I figure it’s just not God’s will for us to have community at this point in time. After all, some Protestants say the community in their churches is a distraction, with all the gossip and being forced to attend too many events.

Myself, I’ve abandoned the idea of close Catholic friends. Since I don’t relate to non-Catholics (or liberal “Catholics”) well enough to get close to one, that means my only friends are God and my mom. Perhaps when I finally get confirmed this next Easter, I’ll be able to join Knights of Columbus. That’s where Catholic men who want to meet other Catholics go.

You want community? Be a good person. You’ll have all the community you can stand in Heaven.

Well you certainly aren’t discouraged by the lack of community!

But, I would still hope that you find some Catholic friends. Knights of Columbus sounds like a good idea, and hopefully they have some members in your age range.

One of the priests in our parish is in charge of planning things and instructing the youth in our parish…the high school and college age. They meet at different times. If you have such a priest in your area (not necessarily your parish) perhaps you can get in on some of those spiritual and social activities.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Please do not make the mistake of believing that because one or two parishes lack groups or ministries, that all Catholic churches or the Church in a larger sense is lacking community.

What it probably speaks to is that your parish is not large enough or does not have enough families with children, and people of all ages. One parish I go to has had a huge exodus, and all the ministries and groups went with the people who left. The pastor alienated a bunch of parishioners when he came and started making Mass 90 minutes, being late to start, and including rituals such as quinceneras within the Masses. So that parish is not as strong in community as the other one I attend. Yet, it is more “catholic” in that the services are very international in make-up. After I am finished saying my prayers of thanksgiving after communion, I love to look up and watch the people filing past my pew. They are from all continents and locations, all over the earth!!

The other parish is HUGE, and more orthodox Catholic, and has dozens and dozens of ministries and groups to choose from. There are many more Masses to choose from, since there are 3 priests and several Deacons on staff. There is Adoration 24/7, traditional confession 2 or 3 times a week, a food bank, a social services department, etc. etc. etc. Yet the population of the parish is much more vanilla than the other one. And in my very international city, that just doesn’t seem “catholic” enough. Here is a list of the organizations this parish supports:

Organizations

ACTS Retreat (Men)
ACTS Retreat (Women)
ALPS - Adult Learning Program Seminars
Altar Servers
Altar Servers (Hispanic)
Brazilian Prayer Group
Charismatic Prayer Group
Church Choirs and Cantors
Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion
Faith in Families
Familia
Hispanic Hospitality
Honeymooners at Heart
In-Betweens
Knights of Columbus
Knights of Columbus (Squires)
Lectors
Legion of Maria
MFC - Mov. Fam. Cristiano
Men’s Club
Nueva Alianza
Eucharistic Adoration
Prayer and Share
Ree Tye Rees
Regnum Christi
Respect Life Committee
SJV Westside Senior Singles (formerly 50+ Group)
Samaritans
Scouting
St. Anne’s Society
T de O (Talleres de Oracion)
That Man is You
Ushers
Women’s Club
Young Adults
Young Married Couples

Whew!

The people who are comparing us to the Protestants…don’t. They have to make up for the lack of the fullness of truth with all sorts of exciting activities and of course you know that all of them are Scripture-truth only. We are never going to be like them and they are never going to be like us. If you start looking over the fence at the grass that seems greener, you are ripe for conversion…They “hunt” for Catholics who are not solid in their faith. It’s like you are giving off some sort of secret vibe they pick up on.

 

[mathematoons]

Please do not make the mistake of believing that because one or two parishes lack groups or ministries, that all Catholic churches or the Church in a larger sense is lacking community…

That list you gave is amazing. What city do you live in? Maybe I should move there. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, one of the epicenters of the culture of death.

 

[SurlyMermaid]

I’ve been going to a mom’s group at the local Catholic church. I love these ladies and yesterday we went to a church event together. I live in a smallish town so there is hope!!!

 

[may_they_be_one]

The people who are comparing us to the Protestants…don’t. They have to make up for the lack of the fullness of truth with all sorts of exciting activities and of course you know that all of them are Scripture-truth only. We are never going to be like them and they are never going to be like us. If you start looking over the fence at the grass that seems greener, you are ripe for conversion…They “hunt” for Catholics who are not solid in their faith. It’s like you are giving off some sort of secret vibe they pick up on.

My prayer for ALL Christians continues to be Jesus’ own in John 17:21-… “Father, may they be one so the world may believe You sent me…”

It is true–many protestants don’t see/believe the full truth of all Scripture. But the same goes for many Catholics. At some point, someone has to be the bigger person (believer) and allow those whose faith is less than ours to still be acceptable. We do Jesus’ own Body such a disservice when we continue the “we are never going to be like them and they are never going to be like us” attitude. :banghead:

St. Paul warns us to not let arguments over words divide us. The reality is that all doctrinal/Scriptural disputes are arguments over words. When Jesus returns in His glory, is He going to be more concerned with how well we defended the definitions of our faith, or is He going to be more concerned with how well we lived out our faith in love?

I challenge everyone to step out of their “correct” positions of faith, and through love and forgiveness, reach out to a fellow non-Catholic believer (or vice versa), who like us, places their hope in Christ’s atoning death, resurrection, and return in glory–even if they think they’re right and you’re wrong about how to express it on Sunday! It’s worth noting the obvious here… the RCC acknowledges ALL baptised believers as part of the Body of Christ.

We are all gifted with different gifts to help the Body function at its best. The real test of righteousness and belief is how we live and treat our neighbors Monday - Saturday. Is it in holiness, service and forgiveness? Or is it in judgementality, self-righteousness, and division?

 

[nickybr38]

Yup, I’m on the wagon with others who’ve commented.

Basically if you want to start feeling a sense of community you have to insert yourself into the community by volunteering to help with the various ministries in the church.

A community prays together, praises together and works together. You won’t feel part of the community until you get your hands dirty.

 

[opus101]

. I believe that one thing that will really help me be a better catholic would be to be around fellow Catholics, and be friends with them. I’m 22, and at most of the time there’s hardly anyone around my age at mass, and if there is what am I supposed to do? Run up to them after mass and say “Hey let’s be catholic friends!” that would be weird. This would be extra weird if if she were a cute girl (Hey, If I’m going to date someone I’d rather her be catholic. with no sense of community this seems impossible.)

It seems that protestants have all kinds of bible studies and fun little community things in which they are all a family of friends in which together they can grow in their faith. there seems to be none of this for us Catholics.

Bryan,
I can really relate to you! I’m considerably older than you are, but I’ve experienced the same thing. My faith is the most important thing in my life, and as a single who is over 40I find it very difficult to meet people who love the Faith and want to share a friendship. Your comment about walking up to others and saying “Hey let’s be Catholic friends” had me smiling, as I often have the same remark passing through my mind.

Every time I’ve joined a small group, such as “Renew” or a study of some sort, I was confronted with a room full of people who didn’t accept Church teachings, but they kept that info from the Pastor, etc. Sometimes arguments would ensue, etc. This is the sad state of affairs in the Church right now, and might explain (if just a little bit) why people are reticent about reaching out to one another - they don’t know where the other person stands!

I actually DID approach some people now and then and introduced myself, and was greeted with a quizzical look or even smirked at.

Now that I’m too old to be in the “Young Adult” groups for those under 40, I really feel isolated! Bryan, maybe we should approach the pastor with a request to host a small group to read the bible/a book/ a Papal document, etc. Maybe your group could do readings by Popes Benedict and John Paul II related to Youth. Maybe mine can be about “the Single vocation ACCORDING TO THE MIND OF THE CHURCH”. (That way we might not end up w/ dissenters, and can form friendships based on the Truth).

I really feel for you. Actually, your college campus minister should be providing all kinds of activities for the students to get to know one another. Isn’t there a Newman Club there?
If there isn’t, you should say something to the pastor.

 

[opus101]

My post was supposed to read “over 40, I…”, NOT “over 401”. I’m not THAT old!

 

[opus101]

Bryan,
Actually, your college campus minister should be providing all kinds of activities for the students to get to know one another. Isn’t there a Newman Club there?
If there isn’t, you should say something to the pastor.

Sorry… I wrote the above without having read all of the posts. The topic has already been addressed! Ooops.