No such thing as a Prolife Democrat (Illinois)

[Fitz]

chicago:

Well, what do you mean by “allowed”? I mean, it isn’t like the university really has any signifigant control over the group. It’s basically a private organization which can do whatever it wants. .

Yes, in a free country they would have the right, but the University could have had more influence. I have one degree from a Catholic University and we always have our awards given at the University. I believe Loyola had to request that they do so outside of the University so that they could get around the request of the Holy Father for Catholic Universities to adhere to Church teachings. I think they could have had significant influence if they had so chosen.

chicago:

Well I think that they all “care”. It may not manifest itself in a full understanding or dedication to the kinds of things which we would hope. Therefore, it becomes hard to understand and sometimes caues a rift as to their seeming inaction.

As far as the black communities, the irony is that they are largely very pro-life at the root. And very family oriented to the point of wanting to support each other. I think that what may be needed are more very practical programs of grass roots type support. I have always thought that the Gabriel Project would work wonders for the black communities if they had it in many of their churches.

Black communities are prolife once children are born. However, a very high percentage of their pregnancies are terminated due to our culure of death. I wish that all women that are pregnant were routinely given ultrasounds so that they thought of the fetus as a baby with a hearthbeat. I think that is one way both the Democrats and the Republicans could agree to be more prolife. If all young women were shown that picture, we would have so many fewer abortions. I guess that is a proven phenomenon. I am not familiar with the projects that do help these women. I know that there are several, but I do think the ultrasound would be key.

 

[bluezone7]

First, God is not a Democrat or Republican!!! Second, there are plenty of Pro-Life Democrats; in the last election most of them voted for Bush. Also has anyone ever heard of Democrats for Life … it is a great Anti-Abortion Democratic organization! Third, there are many pro-Choice (AKA: Pro-Abortion) Republicans. Many use the Abortion issue to gain support for their political party but are really pro-Choice. Really look at all the Republican politicians who claim to be Pro-Life and once elected do nothing about the murder of many innocent babies but give it lip service. Those types of politicians disgust me the most. Also, as biased, as our justice system is against the have-nots how can any Christian truly believe the death penalty in this country is fair or right. Life must be protected from conception to natural death. The only justification for killing is in war or for the protection of one’s own or someone else’s life that is in imminent danger. As a Christian your Christian beliefs should come before allegiances to any political party! Give to God what is God’s and give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.

 

[Fitz]

bluezone7:

Many use the Abortion issue to gain support for their political party but are really pro-Choice. Really look at all the Republican politicians who claim to be Pro-Life and once elected do nothing about the murder of many innocent babies but give it lip service.

I think that there are prolife sources that rate the politicians on their voting record and that should be all the we go by so that we aren’t fooled. Illinois has a bad record on life and Mike Madigan (Democrat) is supposedly prolife. We really can’t take them at their word, can we?

bluezone7:

As a Christian your Christian beliefs should come before allegiances to any political party! Give to God what is God’s and give to Caesar what is Caesar’s

I don’t think that happens in the city of Chicago. As a rule the Democrats are supported no matter what. We even have Fr. Greeley posting weekly in the Sun Times and he routinely says all Catholics should vote Democrat no matter what. In the bigger state area, there is more independent thinking. However, in the city of Chicago it is the Democratic machine.

 

[John_Higgins]

fitz:

We even have Fr. Greeley posting weekly in the Sun Times and he routinely says all Catholics should vote Democrat no matter what.

Not exactly. I’d like to see more than one quote.

Look, the Republicans in Illinois showed their true colors and why there won’t be a Republican in office statewide for a while when they picked Alan Keyes.

BTW, Blagojevich is not a “CINO” (a term I object to anyway), he’s Orthodox.

John

 

[Fitz]

John Higgins:

Not exactly. I’d like to see more than one quote.

I tried to access his columns but that last 30 I could access were about the new Pope and the conclave. I know he has written that we should always vote Democratic because I have written letters of complaint. However, my exaggeration gets the best of me and yes of course he doesn’t say it every week. I know he implies it often and he is a persistent Bush basher. I am not an expert in politics, but Fr. Greeley is a solid Democrat through and through and it comes out in his writings.
John Higgins:

Look, the Republicans in Illinois showed their true colors and why there won’t be a Republican in office statewide for a while when they picked Alan Keyes.

I agree that the Republicans in Illinois or poorly organized or I should say disorganized. They made some big mistakes in the last election with Alan Keyes. I think that my original posts indicate my dismay over the Republicans in this state. I am really still disgusted with our last Governor.
John Higgins:

BTW, Blagojevich is not a “CINO” (a term I object to anyway), he’s Orthodox.John

So he is prolife afterall? I really haven’t heard that. Do you at least agree that Illinois is in trouble?

 

[chicago]

Fitz:

Yes, in a free country they would have the right, but the University could have had more influence. I have one degree from a Catholic University and we always have our awards given at the University. I believe Loyola had to request that they do so outside of the University so that they could get around the request of the Holy Father for Catholic Universities to adhere to Church teachings. I think they could have had significant influence if they had so chosen.

Perhaps they didn’t do as much as possible. But, in the end, what could have been effectively done to stop the group? Anything? Again, it was a group of polico and big wig wheeler dealer self important types who probably don’t really give a damn about what the university thinks, let alone orthodox Catholicism. Rather than bashing the university, then, for failing to be able to control the group (I want to say that they even asked that the group not give the award to Lisa), I’d rather focus on the positive aspects of what they did to try to address the concern in some way. I really do think that Fr. Garandzini is trying to do the best he can to move things positively forward under difficult cicrumstances of a longstanding mess. We can’t expect overnight miracles.

Black communities are prolife once children are born. However, a very high percentage of their pregnancies are terminated due to our culure of death.

The communities are actually quite anti-abortion, also, despite the fact that the culture and circumstances of our fallen society often lead many of them to the abortion mills. I honestly believe that what is needed is largely more hands on, practical projects which can help women in need in those communities to fearlessly come forward for help from people in their neighborhood, church, social group who are supportively willing to help.

I wish that all women that are pregnant were routinely given ultrasounds so that they thought of the fetus as a baby with a hearthbeat.

As do I.

I think that is one way both the Democrats and the Republicans could agree to be more prolife.

Well, one would hope so. But on both sides of the aisle there are some people who are so sold out to the culture of death that they would see even this as an imposition.

If all young women were shown that picture, we would have so many fewer abortions. I guess that is a proven phenomenon. I am not familiar with the projects that do help these women. I know that there are several, but I do think the ultrasound would be key.

Undoubtedly.

 

[chicago]

Fitz:

I think that there are prolife sources that rate the politicians on their voting record and that should be all the we go by so that we aren’t fooled. Illinois has a bad record on life and Mike Madigan (Democrat) is supposedly prolife. We really can’t take them at their word, can we?

The pro-life voter sources take them at the voting records.

But, again, we have to appreciate how the political game is working down there. Madigan has allies among the pro-life lobbying groups in Springfield. They help him determine how to call the shots and decide upon which bills get called.

And, again, if you’d rather have him out than working where he is, then accpet the reality that you’d definitely have a liberal woman leading the state house who wouldn’t likely give an inch.

I don’t think that happens in the city of Chicago. As a rule the Democrats are supported no matter what. We even have Fr. Greeley posting weekly in the Sun Times and he routinely says all Catholics should vote Democrat no matter what. In the bigger state area, there is more independent thinking. However, in the city of Chicago it is the Democratic machine.

In the “bigger state area” there isn’t much more independent thinking. Boundaries are drawn (as they are all over the country) to make certain areas “safe” for either Democrats or Republicans. DuPage is as firmly and dedicatedly Republican, for instance, as Cook is Democratic. There are relatively few swing districts. And amoung those which are, it’s often just a matter of whether the Democratic or Republican candidate who look much alike (whether they both be liberals, both moderates, or both conservatives) is more appealing at the moment.

 

[Fitz]

chicago:

The communities are actually quite anti-abortion, also, despite the fact that the culture and circumstances of our fallen society often lead many of them to the abortion mills. I honestly believe that what is needed is largely more hands on, practical projects which can help women in need in those communities to fearlessly come forward for help from people in their neighborhood, church, social group who are supportively willing to help…

I would agree with the projects and the use of the ultrasound. DO you think that the statistics I am hearing are not right? It is something like 3/5 of all Black pregnancies end in abortion. I wish I had the accuate number, but is is very high.

 

[chicago]

Fitz:

I would agree with the projects and the use of the ultrasound. DO you think that the statistics I am hearing are not right? It is something like 3/5 of all Black pregnancies end in abortion. I wish I had the accuate number, but is is very high.

I’m not disputing the stats. (I’m not sure if what you have specifically cited are correct, but certainly there is a higher percentage of abortions in the black community.) But that doesn’t indicate that the black communities are pro-choice supporters or general believers in that ideology. Talk to any of them and they’ll likely rail on about how terrible such is (much more so than the mushy “well I don’t want to tell anybody else what to do, it’s not my problem” that is typical of the white middle class). Rather, those in the black community who get abortions are just human like everybody else and easily despair without a proper support system while finding what appears to be the easy out. Let’s also recognize the reality that this population has been highly targeted by the abortion industry. So this accounts for part of the problem. Rememer, that abortion is ultimately about abandonment as opposed to solidarity. If someone feels alone and doesn’t know what to do, perhaps hasn’t even told anybody about their “problem”, they’ll run fast to the person promising to “help” them find a way out. Then they’ll abandon their child in their own despair. And that’s how the abortionists market their stuff.

 

[chicago]

Fitz:

So he is prolife afterall? I really haven’t heard that.

What John means is that he can’t be a “CINO” because he isn’t Catholic. He is a memeber of an Orthodox Church.

 

[Fitz]

chicago:

If someone feels alone and doesn’t know what to do, perhaps hasn’t even told anybody about their “problem”, they’ll run fast to the person promising to “help” them find a way out. Then they’ll abandon their child in their own despair. And that’s how the abortionists market their stuff.

I agree that all are human and take refuge with someone offering a solution. I think that is why I like the idea of everyone that is pregnant having to be presented with the ultrasound. If these people saw the beating heart they would be less likely to take the abotion option. I wish that the Fr Phlegars and Jessie Jackson’s were as vocal about the abotions in the black communities as they are about other injustices.

I think this also points out where Planned Parenthod and sex education in our schools have failed the children. Our lawmakers also are involved since these young people don’t need to notify their parents.

fitz:

The Illinois House is pushing HB 2492, which would outlaw the use of ultrasounds except by doctor’s orders. The bill is clearly designed to shut down crisis pregnancy centers…

This is the type of legislation that is meant to save money but not protect the unborn. It is being introduced by a Republican, Rosemary Mulligan of Park Ridge…

 

[chicago]

Fitz:

I wish that the Fr Phlegars and Jessie Jackson’s were as vocal about the abotions in the black communities as they are about other injustices.

Actually, I would say that Fr. Pflegher actually is pretty outspoken on abortion.

Our lawmakers also are involved since these young people don’t need to notify their parents.

The Illinois State Legislature passed a parental notifciation law over a decade ago. The State Supreme put them in a box where nothing could effectively happen and the problem is essentially perpetuated by their decree.

 

[Fitz]

chicago:

Actually, I would say that Fr. Pflegher actually is pretty outspoken on abortion…

So having Obama speak at his chruch during the last campaign is not an endorsement of abortion?

chicago:

The Illinois State Legislature passed a parental notifciation law over a decade ago. The State Supreme put them in a box where nothing could effectively happen and the problem is essentially perpetuated by their decree…

I will go back to my original statement, Illinois is in trouble.

 

[chicago]

Fitz:

So having Obama speak at his chruch during the last campaign is not an endorsement of abortion?

No. Not specifially. One can hear out a person’s position and even agree with or advocate for them on certain things without necessarily intending to support something else which they stand for.

While I don’t find it to have been a good move for Fr. Pfleger to have brought him in to speak (or to be bringing in anybody else to pontificate like that, particularly if it is at Mass), I don’t believe that he had any intention to endorse or support Barrack’s positions on abortion by doing so.

Fr, Pfleger has spoken out against abortion pretty strongly, IMO. Admittedly, how that translates to influence his electoral politics (if at all) may be a question of concern.

 

[Fitz]

chicago:

Fr, Pfleger has spoken out against abortion pretty strongly, IMO. Admittedly, how that translates to influence his electoral politics (if at all) may be a question of concern.

I am glad to hear that he is speaking out against abortion. He should get Jessie Jackson back on his side and then maybe people would pay attention because the African American community in Chicago is being hurt by abortion. I will have to try to find something in writing about Fr. Fleger’s position on abortion because I thought he was fairly liberal on that too.

 

[chicago]

Fitz:

I will have to try to find something in writing about Fr. Fleger’s position on abortion because I thought he was fairly liberal on that too.

I believe that one address which would be easy to find is his address last year in Atlanta in commemoration of Martin Luther King Day. As I recall, he made mention of abortion in that speech. And, mind you, probably not to a crowd of conservatives.

 

[Fitz]

chicago:

I believe that one address which would be easy to find is his address last year in Atlanta in commemoration of Martin Luther King Day. As I recall, he made mention of abortion in that speech. And, mind you, probably not to a crowd of conservatives.

OK, I went to Fr.Pflegar’s parish bulletin to find out about his articles. Here is an excerpt from the MLK Day speech that is about abortion.
saintsabina.org/spotlight/kingdayspeech_transcript.htm
EXCERPT:
Brothers and sisters, it is a MIDNIGHT HOUR when we have relegated the term abortion only to what goes on in a womb and at a clinic but have failed to declare that whenever a life is not able to reach its God given potential and achieve the high calling and the purpose God has ordained it for before the foundations of the world. Whenever a life is not allowed to acheive its purpose it is abortion.
Thus we are practicing abortion not just in clinics, but in our homes, in our schools, in our communities, in corporate America, in churches, in board rooms and in work places all across this country. All abortion must be named and all abortion is immoral and evil. It’s evil! (applause)

Ok, so I will grant you that indeed he is against abortion, however his parish has about 40 outreach ministries and I don’t find a prolife one. He is including any failure to reach one’s potential as abortion. It could be that it is handled under another name. Here is the church website: parishdirectory.archchicago.org/ParishList.aspx?sType=AA&sName=St.%20Sabina&sChoice=4
This is a very strange Catholic church. They call everything a service- never a mass! They are very agressive with politics and they invite others to talk at mass. It is quite a hopping place, but definitely they didn’t even mention the Holy Father this past weekend. It was their neighborhood ecumenical weekend where they shared services. Yeah, I think he does wonders for his parish, but certainly does not do anything in a traditional sense.

 

[Lucania]

cathologos:

No such thing as a pro-life Democrat?

Robert P. Casey Sr., former Governor of Pennsylvania, comes to mind. I’m from Pennsylvania, and had the honor of voting for Governor Casey – both in multiple runs for the Governorship and when he sought earlier statewide offices. Governor Casey provided convincing evidence that decent, pro-life people can and do exist in the Democratic party, even given that party’s foolish concessions to pro-choice interest groups.

Partisanship tends to blind folks to reality…and that’s just as true of partisans on “our side” as of partisans on “their side.”

Any others because he is the ONLY one I’ve ever heard of.

 

[Lisa_N]

geezerbob:

Fitz, I think most politicians are cut from the same cloth. Our wonderful legislature just changed cockfighting from misdemeanor to felony the same day they refused to do the same for domestic violence. I guess a dead chicken is worth more than a dead spouse.

Our state penalizes animal abuse as a felony (and it should be) but allows euthanasia. It’s sad to see the proud Democrat party sell its soul.

Lisa N

 

[4_marks]

There are a great many pro-abortion Republicans as well. In fact, in the New England States, virtually every elected Republican is a so- called “moderate pro-choice” Republican.

I know one way to get the “progressives” to reconsider their stance on abortion. Enact legislation that requires all women in America to have an abortion should they become pregnant after giving birth to two children. The feminists would have a cow.

The whole matter is moot. Face it, Legalized abortion in America is here to stay. There is absolutely nothing that can be done about it at this point. The Church was blindsided in '73 and caught off guard by the Roe decision. By the time people began to rise up in the mid to late 80’s, it was already too late.

As Christians, our primary mission must be to to point people toward the Heavenly Kingdom, and not to transform society into some sort of earthly utopia. as Jesus said, “the poor you will always have with you.”