Noise before Mass

[kage_ar]

Okay, here is another question. If a baby is in a fine restaurant, an opera or a concert hall, or an R-rated movie thatre, and it is screaming, flailing and struggling, how long should the patrons wait before summoning the management and asking them to do something?

I am asking a reasonable question here that is on topic, and I do not think that anyone, anywhere, regardless of age, should be permitted to hold 400 people hostage with misbehaviour (and that includes all the above locations) because his or her relatives believe they GottaRight to be there and everyone else should just suck it up.

What do you think?

To compare the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to a business or entertainment venue is comparing apples to snow shoes.

Babies cry, kids make noise. Parents do the best they can do. I simply cannot imagine Jesus getting angry because a child was crying.

None of us have a right to be at Mass, we have the honor to be there and the duty to be there. I’d way rather those parents have a crying squirmy child at Mass than to have them any where else on this earth.

 

[pnewton]

Okay, here is another question. If a baby is in a fine restaurant, an opera or a concert hall, or an R-rated movie thatre, and it is screaming, flailing and struggling, how long should the patrons wait before summoning the management and asking them to do something?

Why an R-rated movie? Is this that family Mass thing again? If so, I will go on record as being opposed to any Mass that tries to be exclusive of any group. I consider it elitist and selfish, something a Mass should not be.

As to the question, I think a parent owes it to those around to do what is needed to honor their rights. Yes. Failure to do so is rude. I likewise hold it as rude to turn and glare at parents who do not. The Mass is no one’s exclusive property, neither the parent or the intolerant pharisee in the pew that can’t stand the noise of children. Both can be charitable, or both can be rude. One does not justify another.

I find it incredible that adults can find such a spiritual hinderance from a child less than a year old. What a spoiled generation we have become.

 

[Beachcomber]

I’ve attended Mormon church services where there are a ginormous amount of children and, believe it or not, it isn’t particularly loud. During the part of their service where they ‘pass the sacrament’ (their communion) you can hear a pin drop. The kids have been taught to be reverent.

As to how long before taking a child out, IMO–give a couple tries at calmling them down, then take them to the foyer, bathroom, wherever. It shouldn’t be as long as 20, 25 minutes.

 

[Sarabande]

This morning at 11:30 Mass (which is not the Family Mass), a baby 6-8 months old created a disturbance from the Invocation to the Offeratory. Apparently it wanted to get down on the floor, and it screamed and flailed and struggled as the family passed it from hand to hand, to no avail and with no effect, until everyone was turning to look at them, when finally the father gave up and carried little Junior out of the sanctuary. This is why there is an early service for families with children too young to behave properly.

How long should parents allow their baby to scream, flail and struggle before they realize that he/she is disrupting the Mass (by noticing that everyone is looking at them) and take him out of the sanctuary? Do you think 25 minutes is too long?

From what you described, it seemed that the family was doing what they thought best to subdue the child. They probably thought they could get the baby to be quiet, but eventually had to leave the church. These kinds of things happen with very little ones. In regards to acting charitably, perhaps the people around that family could have tried to help subdue the child as well. I’ve been to masses where a baby would start to cry and if I was sitting behind that child, I’d just start giving that baby a big smile and he/she would eventually stop and the parent will actually mouth the words “Thank you,” to me. That’s better than glaring at the parents.

I’m with pnewton in regards to relegating certain groups of people to a specific mass. If it is true that these “family” masses were created so to keep people with families away from other people, it’s not right. I doubt that was the reason for these “family” masses, though. Babies will make noise and of course parents do need to be aware of the people around them should the baby refuse to be subdued. But people around them should also try to be helpful or maybe just a little more understanding. Those kids are the next generation of Catholics and if they are growing up in a parish that actually encourages the relegation of masses so that they won’t be a “bother” to other people, that’s not a good message to send to them.

Oh, I’m an opera singer and have been to many operas as an audience member, I have never seen a baby at any evening and afternoon operas or concerts. Most parents know that a baby won’t sit still or stay quiet during a 2-3 hour opera. It would be torture for them. The only time I have seen babies around was when the parent was the actual singer and even then, we’d help take care of the babe in the green room so that he/she could crawl around and gurgle.

Mass is a totally different story. It’s for everyone. If the parents were actually the ones making the noise and being disruptive, then I’d say there is a good way to get them to stop and maybe even nicely shush them if required. But if the baby is making noise, I think most parents (I’m not talking about those kinds of parents who are totally oblivious and never take their screaming babes/tots out - and I’ve experienced those kinds) do their best to subdue the child. When all normal ways don’t work, then they take the child out. Quite honestly, I’m rejuvenated when I see lots of babies in the pews. It reminds me that their is a new generation coming up and that their parents are making an effort to raise their children as Christians.

 

[Sarabande]

I’ve attended Mormon church services where there are a ginormous amount of children and, believe it or not, it isn’t particularly loud. During the part of their service where they ‘pass the sacrament’ (their communion) you can hear a pin drop. The kids have been taught to be reverent.

As to how long before taking a child out, IMO–give a couple tries at calmling them down, then take them to the foyer, bathroom, wherever. It shouldn’t be as long as 20, 25 minutes.

Agreed, but actual babies aren’t at an age to know what it is to be reverent yet. A 6-8 month old baby wouldn’t know any better.

 

[Appleby]

Are there any mothers here would would disagree, and remove a baby in this situation?

 

[samcarter14]

Are there any mothers here would would disagree, and remove a baby in this situation?

I’ve raised three kids so far and have taken them all to Mass. When they’re babies, I try to make sure their physical needs are met (fed, diapered, comfortable). Until they’re about 2, we take them out of the service when they are fussy and can’t be comforted, so as not to disrupt the service. When they get to be two years old, that’s when we start expecting them to learn proper behavior in church.

In the situation described, I would have taken my baby out after about five or ten minutes of constant fussing. That’s me, though. I usually wore my baby in a sling and that would comfort the baby (even at that age) so they would fall asleep.

That said, I would never stand there and focus on another family’s baby. Every family is different. Some haven’t taken their babies to Mass before, or to any place that is typically quiet and reverent. Maybe it’s the baby’s usual naptime and they thought he or she would sleep. Maybe they forgot to bring an extra bottle, or the mom is reluctant to nurse in public, so the baby is hungry. Maybe they forgot a diaper! Some may be new parents and not know at what point the fussing won’t stop. I focus on my family, our issues, and my own attitude in prayer.

Our priest gave a wonderful homily just this weekend about children and noise in Mass. He said that as far as he’s concerned, any baptized baby is welcome to make any noise at all in his church, and those who complain to him, he tells them that that child, making that noise, is experiencing God in his or her own way. And who are we to judge? We’re not The Judge, as he puts it.

here’s a blog post that may shed some light on the dangers of judging others at Mass:

asksistermarymartha.blogspot.com/2006/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along.html

 

[pnewton]

Are there any mothers here would would disagree, and remove a baby in this situation?

I would/ have. I have always stepped out with a noisy child. I also do not let other noisy children steal my peace. We have no control over the actions and attitudes of others, only our own.

 

[Methodi]

My Church has a cry room for parents who have babies, tho it wouldnt bother me to hear a crying baby, in fact, I love to see the beautiful babies in church, crying or not. I have noticed tho that mothers will remove themselves with their baby if it gets too out of hand

 

[Appleby]

My Church has a cry room for parents who have babies, tho it wouldnt bother me to hear a crying baby, in fact, I love to see the beautiful babies in church, crying or not. I have noticed tho that mothers will remove themselves with their baby if it gets too out of hand

I am not talking about the ordinary cooing, chuckling and maybe babbling from very little ones. That is sweet and charming and one expects it. I am talking about persistent noise that occasionally drowned out the priest, and the kind of thrashing that actually made it necessary for the people in the row ahead of them to duck.

 

[Cat]

To compare the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to a business or entertainment venue is comparing apples to snow shoes.

Babies cry, kids make noise. Parents do the best they can do. I simply cannot imagine Jesus getting angry because a child was crying.

None of us have a right to be at Mass, we have the honor to be there and the duty to be there. I’d way rather those parents have a crying squirmy child at Mass than to have them any where else on this earth.

Wonderful post. Thank you.

I’ll say that I think parents should take a crying baby out immediately, and try all their “quiet strategies” (pacifier, rocking, back-patting, nursing, etc.) OUTSIDE of the nave, and then bring baby back into their pew when he/she is quiet. But if parents choose not to do that, I try not to mind. Like I’ve said many times in this thread and other threads, we need to learn to be detached from earthly distractions and pray in the midst of the noise and clamor.

 

[Methodi]

I am not talking about the ordinary cooing, chuckling and maybe babbling from very little ones. That is sweet and charming and one expects it. I am talking about persistent noise that occasionally drowned out the priest, and the kind of thrashing that actually made it necessary for the people in the row ahead of them to duck.

Well, fortunately I have never seen that , tho I am sure it has happened.

 

[Sarabande]

I am not talking about the ordinary cooing, chuckling and maybe babbling from very little ones. That is sweet and charming and one expects it. I am talking about persistent noise that occasionally drowned out the priest, and the kind of thrashing that actually made it necessary for the people in the row ahead of them to duck.

I’ve never seen that kind of behaviour at mass. The parents probably should have taken that baby out sooner if that was the case, but who are we to judge what was going on in their heads? Most parents are trying to do the best that they can. The baby may have never acted like this before and these parents might have felt incredibly overwhelmed and didn’t know what to do at first.

 

[Ockham]

At the NO I attended yesterday, I sat behind a young family. The couple who had a small baby, appeared to be late twenties, along with a young teenager and a girl around ten years of age. The teenager must be somewhat of a comedian as the two altar servers spotted him and were nearly unable to restrain themselves from laughing. The young comedian waved to them twice prior to the readings.

During the homily, the baby started to fuss a bit. Nothing big, not distracting, no crying. The mother took the child in her arms and started pulling on her sweater. Sure enough, with the priest standing in the pulpit looking down, she started breast feeding. The church has a small family room in the vestibule, but I suppose she either wasn’t aware or thought walking back to it too inconvenient.

Later at the Tridentine Mass I marvelled at another young family. Their five children attend Mass without making any noise and the older ones can even follow along quite nicely in their missals. I doubt their mother ever breast fed them at Mass and I doubt I’ll ever see them distracting the altar servers with waves and chuckles.

 

[kage_ar]

Without fail, this thread always comes to the same point, some horrible mother actually breastfed her child during mass.

Babies eat, God DESIGNED babies to eat mother’s milk. There is nothing wrong or dirty or nasty about it so please, let’s not go there.

 

[Ockham]

Children eat too. Should they be allowed to bring lunch boxes into church? Adults eat too. Why not order pizza? “Hello, Dominos? Could I get a pair of meat lovers delivered to the fifth pew, Gospel side, of St. John Paul II?”

We are not a society of Pygmies running around the jungle half naked. Mom could very easily got up, walked to the family room and fed baby in privacy. Once again the convenience of the individual trumped the consideration of the group.

Of course someone will point out that breast feeding is perfectly natural and those that ask for the decency of restraint are infringing on “rights” or just mean. Farting is natural, why don’t we all do that in church?

 

[pnewton]

Babies eat, God DESIGNED babies to eat mother’s milk. There is nothing wrong or dirty or nasty about it so please, let’s not go there.

To everything there is a time and season. There is a reason that Adam and Eve decided to clothe themselves in the garden when they discovered their nakedness. I wouldn’t call such a mother horrible, for she is probably a great mother. But this action was rude and thoughtless. Again, it doesn’t justify others being rude to her back.

 

[kage_ar]

Children eat too. Should they be allowed to bring lunch boxes into church? Adults eat too. Why not order pizza? “Hello, Dominos? Could I get a pair of meat lovers delivered to the fifth pew, Gospel side, of St. John Paul II?”

You must not be a parent, infants have different nutritional and comfort needs than an older child.

Farting is natural, why don’t we all do that in church?

To compare passing waste products to feeding a child is either ignorant or just plain mean. May our Lady who nursed Jesus soften your heart.

 

[Ockham]

Well, I predicted the “mean” reaction, but “ignorant” wasn’t foreseen.

What’s next, “neo-con”, “anti-women”, “fascist”.?

You don’t have to be a parent to understand the nutritional requirements of an infant. Apparently being an adult doesn’t necessarily remove inconsideration for others - something often described as childish.

 

[pnewton]

If most of the people around one are offended or consider a behavior to be rude, is it the Christian thing to ignore their feelings and selfishly exercise what you preceive to be your rights? We are called to value each other more than ourselves. A woman who would nurse in Mass might do so because she does not understand this basic Christian principle or appreciate the level of discomfort it gives to others. Therefore we should not judge such a one as they may be doing the best they can. However, if a woman does understand her duty to put others first, it is best to step out, find an unoccupied corner or coordinate feeding times and Mass times better.