Noise before Mass

[Cat]

I thoroughly agree with everything you have written, why are catholics so judgmental , they pay attention to trivial things,& Your right , it has to be their way

Thanks.

If the noise before Mass can be stopped or reduced, wonderful.

If a church building has a practice room that is unlocked and that doesn’t involve going up and down steps (that’s for me, because I can’t do steps without a lot of pain and slowness), that’s where the cantor and instrumentalist should practice before Mass.

If a parish can set up a successful “Run Through Rehearsal before Mass” for all the cantors and instrumentalists sometime during the week, wonderful (I have my doubt that this is possible, unless it is held at around 5 in the morning when people, other than figure skaters, aren’t doing anything.)

If a parish can hang up “Quiet Please” signs and it actually brings about quiet, super.

Try all of these things. And if you have the opportunity to get in on planning a new church building, build all of these things into the building–a music practice room right next to the nave or even better, right next to the choir loft or music area, a coat room where people can chat to their heart’s content before Mass (a lot of Protestant churches have these), a Fellowship Hall that isn’t hidden in a basement with steps so that people can meet and greet each other easily before or after Mass, a lobby that is right next to the nave so that people can say hi before or after Mass, a more soundproof cry room that allows participation in the Mass by families with disruptive children.

BUT…if the parish can’t do all these things and more, why complain and condemn? We should learn to make do and enjoy what we have rather than longing for things that we can’t have. Even if you are correct and the time before and after Mass should be silent, well, it’s just not going to happen in the United States in this year 2009 in the majority of parishes. It’s just not going to happen! I think that rather than sitting in the pew and stewing over things that you can’t fix, it is wise for Catholics to work to develop detachment and learn to pray in the midst of the noise.

 

[Leonius]

Was it quiet on Calvary before they drove the nails into Jesus’s hands and feet?

Yes I would imagine so, you have never been to an execution have you? It’s very much like at a funeral when all are gathered by the open grave and the coffin is lowered, the only sound is that of weeping, such would it have been on Calvary, weeping and praying.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Leonius]

Even if you are correct and the time before and after Mass should be silent, well, it’s just not going to happen in the United States in this year 2009 in the majority of parishes. It’s just not going to happen! I think that rather than sitting in the pew and stewing over things that you can’t fix, it is wise for Catholics to work to develop detachment and learn to pray in the midst of the noise.

It can and does happen at some churches in the US in the year of 2009, if it can happen at those places it can happen at any other church, all it requires is for the parishioners to want it, it is something entirely in the control of the congregation.

So others have to change because you don’t want to? It is much wiser, not to mention much easier and much more charitable for people to have some respect for God, their fellow parish and the sacred place they are in and keep a dignified quiet in church. Is it really so hard to keep your mouth shut for an hour?

What do you think the purpose of liturgical music is?

 

[Ockham]

It’s not about being “judgemental” and “condemn”. It’s about being in the presence of our Lord; showing Him reverence and consideration to the parishioners who are in prayer. There is not supposed to be chatting in the nave - period. All these excuses about needing to reherse, modern society’s unrestrained need to flap their gums, community building, etc, are against the norms and dignity of God’s house. It’s not up to the Church to conform to the individual. When the music ministry becomes more about performance than prayer it has lost its purpose. It is also not up to Catholics to “develop detachment and learn to pray in the midst of the noise”. It is up to the noise makers to learn their place and respect something that is bigger than themselves.

 

[Ockham]

Picture then the High Priest Christ leaving the sacristy of heaven
for the altar of Calvary. He has already put on the vestment of
our human nature, the maniple of our suffering, the stole of
priesthood, the chasuble of the Cross. Calvary is his cathedral;
the rock of Calvary is the altar stone; the sun turning to red is
the sanctuary lamp; Mary and John are the living side altars; the
Host is His Body; the wine is His Blood. He is upright as Priest,
yet He is prostrate as Victim. His Mass is about to begin.

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, Ph.D., D.D., LL.D., Litt.D.
CALVARY AND THE MASS
ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/CALMASS.TXT

 

[Black_Dog]

…Even if you are correct and the time before and after Mass should be silent, well, it’s just not going to happen in the United States in this year 2009 in the majority of parishes. It’s just not going to happen! QUOTE]

what a terrible indictment of American society

Slightly off topic, two women left Mass early on Sunday and then remained in the vestibule gossiping and laughing loudly within earshot of all and were still at it when Mass did finish and everyone was leaving

 

[turtle18]

Hopefully the baby boomer post Vatican II years of relativism and chaos are coming to an end. A return to our true heritage will renew our reverence towards God and with that quiet all the chatter in the pews.

The clamshell design is an absolute atrocity which contributes to the noise in Church. When you have people sitting across from each other, you are going to hear who is in front of you. If you are sitting on the sides, the priest’s voice, the lector’s voice and even the choir are not going to project the right way for you to hear them. All you are going to hear is the person on the opposite side of you because their voice is projecting towards you. If you are sitting in the middle, you are going to get bombarded with noise from the front and both sides.

But of course, the clamshell design is all about “we” instead of the Lord so it makes perfect sense that we would be hearing our brothers & sisters instead of the actual Mass.

As for the noise on Ash Wednesday, the priest announced there would be no closing hymn and there was to be silence. He asked if we needed to chat to do it outside in the narthex in order to respect congregants who wanted to stay in the sanctuary and pray. Of course, he was ignored by a set few who just popped up and started talking to each other at the end of Mass.

I’ve given up any hope of ever being silence in Mass again. People are so oriented towards themselves nowadays it is impossible for them to not talk.

 

[CrazyCat]

I’ve given up any hope of ever being silence in Mass again. People are so oriented towards themselves nowadays it is impossible for them to not talk.

What if a priest got angry like Jesus did in the temple?
"My house shall be a house of prayer; but you have made it a den of…chatterers…"

 

[Methodi]

Talk about noise, should the priest during his sermon say funny things, or tell jokes to make the congregation laugh. I have no problem with it, just curious as to how others feel about it

 

[jmcrae]

Talk about noise, should the priest during his sermon say funny things, or tell jokes to make the congregation laugh. I have no problem with it, just curious as to how others feel about it

As long as the purpose of the humour is to draw attention to the Gospel message and make it memorable, it’s fine. I’d have a problem with it if he was just telling pointless jokes that had nothing to do with the message of the day, though.

 

[Ockham]

Talk about noise, should the priest during his sermon say funny things, or tell jokes to make the congregation laugh. I have no problem with it, just curious as to how others feel about it

Would jokes have been appropriate at Calvary?

 

[Gardenman]

This issue of noise before Mass really gets me steamed.

I left my childhood parish because of it and liturgical abuses. I realize I’m reacting like a typical traditionalist, but the irreverance and the noise just got me too angry.

In the old days of the latin Mass and even during the first decade or so of the New Mass, the silence and decorum were there. The church was quiet, there was soft organ music playing before the Mass began, and you could still have QUIET private prayer time, The sanctuary was already set up for the Mass to begin and the only “distraction” was MAYBE one altar boy lighting candles or putting out the cruets.

The congregation entered in silence, found their seats and either prayed silently or just sat meditating.

Then it slowly evolved into what I call a “Production”. The sanctuary became like the stage in a theater. There are now probably a dozen or more people milling about “setting up” for the “show”. Musicians dragging instruments, electrical chords, stands, dropping sheet music, folding chairs being clanged around and rearranged a million times. Then there are all these other assorted people walking around up there, up and down from the pulpit, going through the communion rail and into the congregation. Then several engage in conversation with each other right up in front of the tabernacle. Then a few more come on to the scene and start fussing with flowers and plants. Then a few more start fussing with testing microphones, tuning pianos, then they move those infernal chairs around a few more times…next comes the “half-vested” celebrant and he putters around for a few minutes. You don’t even want to know how sloppy most of these people are dressed.

Meanwhile, the choir loft in the rear is dark and empty. Then someone starts playing with the lights.

Meanwhile, the congregation has followed the cue of the “production staff and prop crew” (yes, sarcasm) and are just merrily chatting away, standing in groups in the aisles, waving to each other, joking, etc. like they’re in the parking lot.

I’ve seen better decorum in a real theater. At least the stage is hidden behind a curtain and all the set up is out of the audience’s view, and the noise is minimal.

When the time comes for Mass to begin, the sanctuary is now this congested, cluttered mess of “props” which have pretty much become the focus for the “performance” which is soon to begin. DURING the mass, it’s no different. The musicians come and go at will. They are constantly trading seats with each other, and preparing for their next “number”…the altar servers are pretty much clueless as to what they’re supposed to be doing, and it’s all TOO DISTRACTING.

[edited]

 

[Ockham]

“Did I just attend Mass or a dress rehearsal for a play?”

Sad isn’t? The Bugnini Mess tops the list of the liberal agenda. Our generation all but lost our true Catholic heritage in the 'Spirit of Vatican II" fog. Thankfully the younger generation is smarter and reaching out for the Mass of all ages. Hopefully the history pages will mark this time as liberal experimentation gone wild. When people in the future call for changes to the Mass this dark age will be used as the reason not to.

 

[Appleby]

And she should stand guard at the door, too:

http://themasterstable.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/nun_ruler.jpg

Aaaaaaaugh! Sister Mary Bernadette and the Ruler of Doom! Boy, does that bring back memories.

I agree that people are by and large determined to fill every unforgiving minute with sixty seconds worth of blah blah blah, no matter where they may be. The week after Daddy died, I came early to the sanctuary to kneel in prayer before the Blessed Mother – and could not do so because of the shouting, banging of doors, giggling, beeping, beedle-beedle-bee of ringtones and of course, crying of toddlers. I went into the chapel and the racket from the sacristy was even worse. Finally I went into the Parish Hall and asked one of the CWL ladies, “Is there anywhere QUIET in this church where a person can pray?” She suggested the chapel and then admitted after accompanying me there, that the noise level was pretty high there, too. I was quite upset because of dealing with Daddy’s death and I told her that if I had to go into the washroom to pray I might just as well stay home. To her credit she went into the sacristy and said something quiet and polite, and the altar boys etc. got quiet enough so I could pray in the chapel. I have since changed parishes and my current one has the big SILENCE signs – plus people who make unnecessary noise are Stared At which generally settles them down.

People may come to the sanctuary in genuine distress (think of Hannah, mother of Samuel, for example, or the Publican who did not dare to raise his eyes to heaven) and the last thing they need is an encounter with a Football Crowd.

If people simply cannot stop talking, texting, telephoning and so on, could they not wait in the anteroom until their urgent need for noise has subsided?

 

[Katie1723]

Aaaaaaaugh! Sister Mary Bernadette and the Ruler of Doom! Boy, does that bring back memories.

I agree that people are by and large determined to fill every unforgiving minute with sixty seconds worth of blah blah blah, no matter where they may be. The week after Daddy died, I came early to the sanctuary to kneel in prayer before the Blessed Mother – and could not do so because of the shouting, banging of doors, giggling, beeping, beedle-beedle-bee of ringtones and of course, crying of toddlers. I went into the chapel and the racket from the sacristy was even worse. Finally I went into the Parish Hall and asked one of the CWL ladies, “Is there anywhere QUIET in this church where a person can pray?” She suggested the chapel and then admitted after accompanying me there, that the noise level was pretty high there, too. I was quite upset because of dealing with Daddy’s death and I told her that if I had to go into the washroom to pray I might just as well stay home. To her credit she went into the sacristy and said something quiet and polite, and the altar boys etc. got quiet enough so I could pray in the chapel. I have since changed parishes and my current one has the big SILENCE signs – plus people who make unnecessary noise are Stared At which generally settles them down.

People may come to the sanctuary in genuine distress (think of Hannah, mother of Samuel, for example, or the Publican who did not dare to raise his eyes to heaven) and the last thing they need is an encounter with a Football Crowd.

If people simply cannot stop talking, texting, telephoning and so on, could they not wait in the anteroom until their urgent need for noise has subsided?

I LOVE this post!
This however is my FAVORITE part: If people simply cannot stop talking, texting, telephoning and so on, could they not wait in the anteroom until their urgent need for noise has subsided?
It is a sad commentary on our churchgoing society today. I saw someone texting on her way to Communion. How very sad.

Kathy

 

[pnewton]

Would jokes have been appropriate at Calvary?

Of course not, but that does not mean it is inappropriate for a homily.

 

[Ockham]

"According to the New Testament, especially in Ephesians and Hebrews, the death of Jesus on the Cross on Calvary was a sacrifice to God the Father made by Jesus Christ, the God-Man, in reparation for sin and the salvation of those who would believe in him. Jesus was understood to offer that sacrifice in a special, mystical way at the Last Supper when he said to his apostles, “Do this in memory of me.” The Church did just that for 1500 years until the time of the great revolt of the Protestants in the 16th century, especially Luther, Calvin and Melanchton who denied that the Mass is a sacrifice.

The most that they would grant is that the Mass is a type of memorial of thanksgiving to God for the sacrifice of the Cross, while denying that the Mass itself is a sacrifice. The Catholic Church responded during the Council of Trent and declared dogmatically that the Mass is “a true and proper sacrifice”" (D 948). Kenneth Baker, S.J

 

[Sarabande]

I LOVE this post!
This however is my FAVORITE part: If people simply cannot stop talking, texting, telephoning and so on, could they not wait in the anteroom until their urgent need for noise has subsided?
It is a sad commentary on our churchgoing society today. I saw someone texting on her way to Communion. How very sad.

Kathy

Yes, it is very sad. Everywhere you go, not even just in church, people are like this.
As I’ve mentioned in my previous posts, though, I really think this pervasive way of thought and action is a reflection of society in general. Etiquette, decorum, manners, formality (or lack there-of) have all been blurred. It used to be people would know or learn that there was a certain decorum and action in various situations and places. Today, one’s actions, dress, etc. at a church picnic, for example, is also the way to go when at mass. People have grown to think that talking in the church is perfectly fine. I think this is mainly because no one in authority or in a leadership position have taken the pains to nip this type of behaviour in the bud. Some parishes have, so you can see a difference. As someone who has the opportunity to be in many parishes because of the nature of my profession, I have been able to see major differences between certain parishes in regards to noise. I don’t want to generalise, but from what I’ve found, the parishes that have overly focused and concentrated on “community” tend to be much more chatty and noisy.
That said, I think it starts at the top. If the pastor encourages a “laid back” atmosphere where people can chat with each other, text message people, etc., of course the people will be like that as well. And it really doesn’t matter if the church is more community-oriented, because I’ve also been to parishes which still kept reverence in the church, but have a strong community. It really does have to do with the leadership to give example that although the society today tends to be laid back with everything, it doesn’t mean that mass has to be the same way.

 

[Ockham]

“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.” Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

“The Church which Christ founded has not only preserved the Word He spoke, and the wonders He wrought; it has also taken Him seriously when He said: “Do this in commemoration of me.” And that action whereby we re-enact His Death on the Cross is the Sacrifice of the Mass, in which we do as a memorial what He did at the Last Supper as the prefiguration of His Passion.” Archbishop Fulton Sheen

 

[SteveGC]

“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.” Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

I cringe even when there’s light applause after the recessional (usually accolades for the youth choir)…are there parishes out there that experience outbreaks of applause actually during the liturgy??

What do you all think of the argument about cell phones in Mass? I once heard an argument that some need to have the phone in there, and have it ON, because in case there’s an emergency with such-and-so…etc etc. I thought that was a ludicrous excuse. A couple weeks ago, a lady not only pulled her barely-audible ringing phone from her purse, but actually ANSWERED it during Mass, as she walked to the exit. Unbelievable. How hard is it to leave it in the car? Am I missing something?