Noise before Mass

[pnewton]

Cat - I think the majority of cantors do not rehearse a day or more before the mass. They usually only have enough time right before. That is a problem with volunteers. They are giving the time that they can afford, so we can’t expect them to give more than that.

As with all things, each parish has its own dynamics. Some parishes might have enough space to have a separate room and piano for practice while other do not. In some parishes, there is no night of the week that everyone can get togethter and practice. Other parishes may have choir members that do nothing but choir in the Church. My own parish has a unique quirk that out of 900+ families, we have not even one organist or pianist that will play for Mass. I appreciate those like Cat that share their talent.

I think the only legitimate gripe of the OP, and it is very legitimate, is disrespectful talking that goes on during Mass. That is never called for. Basic Mass preparation must be tolerated and not judged, especially if it your first time in five years. There may be plenty going on that you do not know. Even if there is a separate choir room, it may have to pull double duty on Wednesday. It was mentioned a confirmation class came in together.

 

[Sarabande]

As with all things, each parish has its own dynamics. Some parishes might have enough space to have a separate room and piano for practice while other do not. In some parishes, there is no night of the week that everyone can get togethter and practice. Other parishes may have choir members that do nothing but choir in the Church.

Hi. I just wanted Cat to know that what she experiences is not unusual in terms of when cantors have time to practice and wanted to give some tips on keeping the sound levels low when rehearsing especially if it is a parish which does not like that sort of thing. And as one musician to another, I wanted to give some helpful advice to her on what to do if you know you won’t have much time to rehearse at the church before the mass. From what she described in her situation, she sounded like she needed some advice and was having some trouble juggling things around. These are all things church musicians learn and share with each other. We have to help each other out, because non-musicians, no matter how helpful they try to be, just don’t have a true understanding of what we have to do and go through.

My own parish has a unique quirk that out of 900+ families, we have not even one organist or pianist that will play for Mass. I appreciate those like Cat that share their talent.

Now, that is a downright shame!!! How can there not be one musician in those 900+ families? I feel for your parish.

I think the only legitimate gripe of the OP, and it is very legitimate, is disrespectful talking that goes on during Mass. That is never called for. Basic Mass preparation must be tolerated and not judged, especially if it your first time in five years. There may be plenty going on that you do not know. Even if there is a separate choir room, it may have to pull double duty on Wednesday. It was mentioned a confirmation class came in together.

That is true, and agree with that. Unnecessary talking is… well… unnecessary and disrespectful. But mass preparation right before mass is sometimes needed and necessary. Believe me, I’ve been working as a musician in Catholic churches since I was about 16, and I know and understand what goes on “behind the scenes” - the good, the bad and the ugly. (Sometimes, I wish I never got to see what went on behind the scenes, but on the whole, the experience is good.) In all those years working in different parishes, I have found that there is always a way to work around any of these “obstacles”. Some parishes are more forgiving and understanding in terms of practice. Others aren’t and you have to learn how to work around it, especially when the church doesn’t have the rehearsal space. And more often than not, they don’t, which is the case where I am because many of the churches are old and/or historical buildings.

 

[mullenpm]

Whatevergirl, I beg to differ with you (respectfully, of course)

***“I believe in socializing…part of why we attend mass, is to worship with our neighbors…but, it doesn’t mean to treat the House of the Lord as a party hall. It’s disturbing, to a degree, to see such a lack of reverence.” ***

Part of why we attend Mass IS NOT TO WORSHIP WITH OUR NEIGHBORS.

We attend Mass to worship our Dear Lord and we do it between him and ourselves. The church could be empty except for you and the Lord and the Priest celebrating Mass. I have never heard of attending Mass to worship with our neighbors so it is okay to chat. It is disturbing to a very HIGH DEGREE, to see such lack of reverence.

 

[pnewton]

Now, that is a downright shame!!! How can there not be one musician in those 900+ families? I feel for your parish.

just not a pianist or organist (that will come forward). We have three or four guitarist. No trained singers. Our priest often remarks we are part mission field, mostly middle class and down, many immigrants, legal and otherwise.

That is why I know each parish has its own dynamic.

 

[woodswalker]

I agree about the disturbing lack of reverence I’ve seen in some Catholic Churches these days. I left the church years ago and joined an Evangelical church but have recently returned to the one true Church.

This morning my husband and I attended a church in a different parish at the urging of a good friend who was quite excited about how progressive it was… It certainly was different, no pews, no kneeling and a noise level that was incredibly distracting. Prior to Mass, people we running around the sanctuary, laughing talking on cell phones and treating it like a social engagement. I felt like I was back in my former church rather than in the Catholic church.

Things did quiet down once Mass began but I was thrown by a lot of stuff. The priest at one point asked new people to get up and introduce themselves and tell why they were there. Boy, that’s one out of the Protestant playbook!!! My husband and I declined to participate as it felt very strange to break up the Mass by throwing this in. There were a number of other oddities but bottom line, we weren’t comfortable there and won’t return.

We are not exactly traditionalists or old cranks but it seemed as if all the beauty and reverence that is such a part of the Mass was missing. Maybe it’s because I’m newly returned and madly in love with the Lord and His Church but I’m looking forward to Mass next Sunday at my wonderful Franciscan Church where I can quietly meditate on His love, in blessed peace.

 

[Guitar]

Whereas, here in this city, at least at the two parishes that I am most familiar with, if you are not at rehearsal on Wednesday night, then you do not sing in the choir that Sunday, period, full stop, end of story. Both of those organists are very professional, and they expect the volunteers to put in their best effort - the attitude of “Oh, well, they’re volunteers, so what can you expect,” doesn’t fly, around here.

When I run a volunteer group, I run it like those organists. I do not have anything to do with any volunteer group that is not run that way.

A volunteer cantor not rehearsing in advance is not always a matter of volunteer-so-what-can-you-expect. Some volunteer cantors are not in the choir because they know they don’t have the time or schedule flexibility to make the level of commitment needed for a group to work well together. Some of these people do however try to offer their services when they can. Yes, there are some volunteers who think if it’s on a volunteer basis you can take what they feel like offering and be happy with it (and there are some who think they are committed and hard-working but don’t actually understand either concept). Some are doing a juggling act between offering what they can and meeting other commitments. I have been called on to cantor at short notice for both unpaid and paid events and sometimes it is extremely difficult to manage but it means a lot to the people who asked me or I know if I don’t do it they will go without. So as long as I know the repertoire is within my technical abilities, I re-organise everything else and skid in with as much time as I can manage, which might only be 30 minutes beforehand.

No rehearsal does not always mean a cantor isn’t taking things seriously. Sometimes it means the cantor has made a herculean effort to get there at all.

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

All this discussion of cantor difficulty is proof that cantor’s aren’t needed. The priest can do it.

I’m a musician. I often play trumpet during the opening and closing songs at my EF Mass on holy days.

My instrument- more than most- requires preparedness. I must prepare my lip muscles by warming up, I must warm up my instrument to secure the tuning, and I must warm up my fingers to ensure dexterity.

How do I do this?

I walk outside. I play softly and slowly to warm up.

Cantors can step out to their cars and do vocal warm-ups. They can stand outside and do vocal warm-ups. They can do vocal warm-ups on the way to Mass, etc etc.

A vast majority of the “difficulties” faced by singers and musicians at Mass are the same in the secular world— in that they can mostly be traced to musicians being prima donnas!! Trust me, I’m one!

 

[pnewton]

All this discussion of cantor difficulty is proof that cantor’s aren’t needed. The priest can do it.

Not all priests. Besides tin ears, some just would not have the stamina to go four or five Masses, leading the music and still saying all the prayers.

 

[Ockham]

Why do the cantor and organist need to reherse anyway? As long as both can read music the only variable should be tempo.

One of the most strking differences in the congregations of the Extraordinary and Ordinal Forms is talking. It doesn’t exist in the former and practically unavoidable in the latter. The lack of reverence for the Real Presence in the OF contributes to a noisey and distracted atmosphere in the nave.

 

[pnewton]

Why do the cantor and organist need to reherse anyway? As long as both can read music the only variable should be tempo.

Tempo is one reason. Lack of prefection on the part of the cantor is another. Not everyone is a perfect pitch sight-reader. Some people in the real world really need the chance to rehearse.

 

[agapewolf]

Part of why we attend Mass IS NOT TO WORSHIP WITH OUR NEIGHBORS.

We attend Mass to worship our Dear Lord and we do it between him and ourselves. The church could be empty except for you and the Lord and the Priest celebrating Mass. I have never heard of attending Mass to worship with our neighbors so it is okay to chat. It is disturbing to a very HIGH DEGREE, to see such lack of reverence.

Not true. Liturgy, by definition, is “public work”. Otherwise, we should just worship at home by ourselves.

It is about worshiping as a Church, in community. Not ONLY about worshiping with each other, but that is an aspect of it. As she stated, that does not give permission to chat in the sanctuary before Mass.

 

[Ockham]

Tempo is one reason. Lack of prefection on the part of the cantor is another. Not everyone is a perfect pitch sight-reader. Some people in the real world really need the chance to rehearse.

As others have stated, why can’t the two go outside and go over the music or quietly discuss on the organ bench?

Mass is indeed an opportunity to worship together as a faith community. However, the focus is on God and reverence while in the presence of Christ should be expected. When chatter in the pews breaks out you can bet worldly distractions have take place. We should all be showing each other the respect of silence in efforts to come closer to God through prayer.

 

[pnewton]

As others have stated, why can’t the two go outside and go over the music or quietly discuss on the organ bench?

Mass is indeed an opportunity to worship together as a faith community. However, the focus is on God and reverence while in the presence of Christ should be expected. When chatter in the pews breaks out you can bet worldly distractions have take place. We should all be showing each other the respect of silence in efforts to come closer to God through prayer.

I can only speak in hypotheticals. In many cases other options do exist. However, not every parish has the luxury of a separate place to practice, with a keyboard, piano or organ. Talking about the music is not that same as hearing the pitch and making sure one has the melody and pitch right. Remember, not everyone is a first class musician. Some people have to hear something first.

Particularly problematic is the Psalm, which changes week to week. The only reason I personally do not have to practice before Mass is that I almost always just accompany myself as musician and cantor. It is easy to find a time that is suitable for oneself. Occasionally I have another person that helps and I practice outside of Mass. Once we had a change and we had to play real quietly around the corner to figure something out.

I think it is the duty of all who help with the Mass to keep things reverant and low key before Mass, and then if the parishoners have a little understanding for what’s left, then everyone is happy.

 

[Ockham]

I don’t even consider myself a musician; just someone who knows enough to get by. That being said, I’ve never rehersed with a cantor prior to a Mass.

If all churches followed the traditional design with the choir/organ lofted at the back, then we wouldn’t have this problem.

The Vatican II clamshell design with the choir/organ front and nearly centre places an emphasis on performance, distracting everyone’s attention from the Real Presence and point of being there.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Was it quiet on Calvary before they drove the nails into Jesus’s hands and feet?

Forgive me and the cantor for practicing yesterday. I got off work at 3:30, drove to a school to rehearse with a group of teenagers who are in a contest in a few weeks, then I drove over the church and made it by 4:45 for a 5:30Mass. The cantor is someone that I have only played for once, so we don’t know each other’s “mannerisms.” She didn’t know the Psalm or the Lenten Mass parts, so we had to practice them. I didn’t know two of the hymns, and we decided to change them to something more familiar to the congregation (with the priest’s permission). The order of the liturgy was slightly different due to the Distribution of Blessed Ashes, and Father walked over to explain things to us.

What were we supposed to do? Write notes to each other instead of “chatting?”

What exactly would YOU tell us to do? Just “wing it?” Never. As it was, BOTH of us messed up hymns, and the priest and the altar boy got their wires crossed at one point.

You know, Mass doesn’t just materialize out of the spiritual world and float into earthly existence like some kind of apparition. It involves REAL flesh and blood people and real earthly activities.

The instrumentalist and cantor don’t just know all the songs from the moment of earth’s creation. People need to have written down schedules and need to study and review what is written down and sometimes make changes. Someone has to turn on the heat, adjust the fans, find out what that clacking noise is down in the boiler room, turn on the lights, test out the sound system, fix the sound system when it squeals, etc.

We’re human beings and we make noise just by living and moving. During the Mass last night, when I set my book down, I accidentally crashed my arm into the keys and the congregation got treated to a dissonant chordal sequence. Sorry about that, but that’s what clumsy humans do.

If all of us who are involved with presenting you with a Mass didn’t prepare, you would have a very sorry Mass. It doesn’t just happen. It doesn’t just materialize. The musicians have lives outside of Mass and must often wait until the last minute to rehearse.

Again, I ask you and all the rest of us to remember that Golgotha was NOT a quiet place, and yet our Lord prayed.

I’m sorry to be so crabby and grouchy, but honestly, I am having a very hard time with Christians who can’t tolerate anything except their way. Can’t we all just put up with each other and accept all our human limitations? We’ll die soon enough, won’t we, and then we’ll have the peace of heaven to hopefully look forward to.

Amen. I have found that many of the people that get angry at the chaos prior to Mass with the practice of the music or servers are the ones that complain when the music if not to their liking. The organist hits the wrong key and the cantor hists the wrong note. They IMHO tend to be the ones that tell the priest they were not happy when the server forgot something or was not fast enough.

Now the noise immediately after Mass does bother me when I am trying to say my final prayers and people are trying to walk over me instead going to the other side of the isle so they can socialize. In this case I wish they would use their phone and talk to their friends at other times.

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t even consider myself a musician; just someone who knows enough to get by. That being said, I’ve never rehersed with a cantor prior to a Mass.

If all churches followed the traditional design with the choir/organ lofted at the back, then we wouldn’t have this problem.

The Vatican II clamshell design with the choir/organ front and nearly centre places an emphasis on performance, distracting everyone’s attention from the Real Presence and point of being there.

The clamshell design has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Vatican II. Vatican II never called for any changes to Church design, placement of the choir, or anything like that. It didn’t even ask for the altar to be turned around, nor for the altar rails to be taken out.

 

[pnewton]

If all churches followed the traditional design with the choir/organ lofted at the back, then we wouldn’t have this problem.

That would be a little tough in our parish as we do not even have a loft. We had looked at adding one, but the ADA compliancy laws made it cost-prohibitive. Again, there are simply no rules that can apply everywhere.

 

[KathleenElsie]

A properly designed church has the choir lofted at the back. Their voices and the pipe organ lead the congregations’ songs to the front of the nave - to Jesus. It also allows for last minute preparation discussion without bothering the congregation. The Vatican II clamshell design has the choir at the front where they can become a distraction. Form follows function.

Our church was not properly designed. The choir “loft” is to the right side of the altar. It is open to the rest of the one room. Maybe the choir should practice in the priests garage to make other people happy. Practice outside is hard when the temp is below zero.

Sure there are practice nights. Usually Wednesday nights (Ash Wednesday) .

Sometimes the priest changes the Psalms before the Mass. Sometimes the scheduled cantor is ill and his/her replacement needs to go over the music etc.

No one that I know wants to disrupt the prayers of others. There are times it just can not be helped.

 

[Donna_Mc]

I can understand the choir practicing, especially if they have no other place to do it. My problems is with the chatting before and after Mass, I have seen it so much in the past several years in different churches. I know myself if someone approches me to say hello, I ask them if we can talk outside the church.

 

[mullenpm]

We seem to have come to the point in this thread where we are blaming the choir, cantor and musicians for the noise before Mass.

That would never have occurred to me. Our choir is in a loft but at times when I arrive early for Mass either the cantor or some members of the choir are practicing. But I don’t consider that noise.:harp:

The noise I don’t like is chatting noise. People who come into the pew (most without bowing or genuflecting) and immediatedly begin talking to each other.

That noise can be stopped. Perhaps a homily now and again about reverence for the Blessed Sacrament, would work with most people.:tsktsk:

And no agapewolf, we could not just worship at home because then we would not have the benefit of the Holy Mass and the glory of receiving the Holy Eucharist. That is why we go to Mass, not to worship with our neighbors