Nominees for worst hymn

[daeve]

I once played that processional for a wedding. It is a nice, formal tune, but in keeping with my personal ban on playing show tunes (whether from musicals or operas), I wouldn’t do it again. There are some beautiful organ arrangements of the Grand March from Aida or Wagner’s Tannhäuser Overture, but I would not play these in a Catholic wedding.

Gather/GIA: Much better musical arrangements written for organ rather than keyboard as with OCP, but just as politically correct. With regard to Simple Gifts, whose tune was hijacked for Lord of the Dance, it really is hard to dance with the devil on your back!

I would probably choose something else today, but in 1976 it seemed fine to me. Most of the people in the wedding were our theatre friends, and about half of us had done a production of SoM the year before. I have a lot of different attitudes now. Our first dance was from Pippin, and the orchestra had never heard of the song at all. I had to send them the sheet music.

 

[donmaximuso27]

Even though I believe there is nothing theologically incorrect in “You Are My All In All”, I cannot help but be dissapointed when comparing hymns such as these to traditional Gregorian Chant and Latin Hymns. The sacredness of the music is now only focused on words today, most of which are just poetical and lyrical. We need to return to the true sacred music, such as Palestrina, Mozart, and Gregorian Chant. This music is truly contemplative and the lyrics have such an enormous meaning theologically and spiritually.

 

[BrianGarland]

This has to be one of the most heartless threads I have ever read. Any piece of music, either from this century or from centuries of old, can be dissected musically and theologically, but what’s the point? You don’t like “I Am the Bread of Life?” You must not like the New Testament all that much either. “All Are Welcome?” Name one theological discrepancy in it. It’s OK not to like a song because you don’t like it, but don’t belittle the people who DO like it and the composers who are serving the church with their gifts. Remember, “in all things, charity.”

 

[mercygate]

This has to be one of the most heartless threads I have ever read. Any piece of music, either from this century or from centuries of old, can be dissected musically and theologically, but what’s the point? You don’t like “I Am the Bread of Life?” You must not like the New Testament all that much either. “All Are Welcome?” Name one theological discrepancy in it. It’s OK not to like a song because you don’t like it, but don’t belittle the people who DO like it and the composers who are serving the church with their gifts. Remember, “in all things, charity.”

This is a long thread; its criticisms of contemporary hymnody are largely based on sound musical and liturgical principles, not least of which is that liturgical music not be based on popular secular models. Another of the criticism levied here has been a legitimate distaste for twisted politically correct and artifically “inclusive” language (as in Bread of Life, which would be a perfectly decent song if it stuck to the actual words of Scripture).

One of the liabilities of being a contemporary composer is that you put your stuff out there and wait to see if it stands the test of time. Older hymnody HAS stood that test.

 

[donmaximuso27]

This has to be one of the most heartless threads I have ever read. Any piece of music, either from this century or from centuries of old, can be dissected musically and theologically, but what’s the point? You don’t like “I Am the Bread of Life?” You must not like the New Testament all that much either. “All Are Welcome?” Name one theological discrepancy in it. It’s OK not to like a song because you don’t like it, but don’t belittle the people who DO like it and the composers who are serving the church with their gifts. Remember, “in all things, charity.”

Actually, throughout most of the history of the Catholic Church, hymns were written for specific theological and spiritual meaning. The most recent compositions, however, often contradict the NT and most Scripture for that matter. Modern composers focus on poetical, lyrical words, rather then sound theological meaning. Perhaps you should refer to these links:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/june/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060624_fondazione-bartolucci_en.html

catholiceducation.org/articles/arts/al0288.htm

 

[RosaMystica]

This has to be one of the most heartless threads I have ever read. Any piece of music, either from this century or from centuries of old, can be dissected musically and theologically, but what’s the point? You don’t like “I Am the Bread of Life?” You must not like the New Testament all that much either. “All Are Welcome?” Name one theological discrepancy in it. It’s OK not to like a song because you don’t like it, but don’t belittle the people who DO like it and the composers who are serving the church with their gifts. Remember, “in all things, charity.”

You got it right when you called them songs - we’re supposed to be singing hymns in the mass, aren’t we?

By the way, I was laughing out loud when I read the reference to the “Holly Holly Holly LOO ooh yah!” My husband and I were just talking about how bad that one is earlier tonight. That’s one thing I can say for the Anglicans - they can SING! I’ve been scouring the internet for recordings of old Latin classics.

 

[Tracy07]

The gloria one where everyone claps in the chorus takes the biscuit for me.

JD

Have to say that is the one i dislike most, when the children have a mass at school it is always sung only now and again is it sang in church.

 

[benedictgal]

Have to say that is the one i dislike most, when the children have a mass at school it is always sung only now and again is it sang in church.

You’ll be happy to know that someone finally took OCP to the woodshed for that nappy, clappy Gloria and they’ve removed it form the realms of service music and transferred it to the hymns section, instead. Furthermore, that is not even the Gloria, but a very loose paraphrase of the prayer.

I am grinding my teeth as I type this, but, I just heard the recessional hymn for my Cathedral Mass (on the internet radio). Some brilliant person decided to sing Jesus Christ is Risen Today to the tune of Michael Rowed His Boat Ashore, Alleluia. Talk about tacky. It totally killed an otherwise glorious song. Another parish did that last night. It is scary.

 

[Tracy07]

You’ll be happy to know that someone finally took OCP to the woodshed for that nappy, clappy Gloria and they’ve removed it form the realms of service music and transferred it to the hymns section, instead. Furthermore, that is not even the Gloria, but a very loose paraphrase of the prayer.

I am grinding my teeth as I type this, but, I just heard the recessional hymn for my Cathedral Mass (on the internet radio). Some brilliant person decided to sing Jesus Christ is Risen Today to the tune of Michael Rowed His Boat Ashore, Alleluia. Talk about tacky. It totally killed an otherwise glorious song. Another parish did that last night. It is scary.

We had mass at school on friday and had to sing the gloria one the kids love to sing it but i just cannot seem to get away with it of course i do sing it because we sing to the lord but its just not my favourite my all time favourite has to be the one that goes
’ this is my body, broken for you
bringing you wholeness making you free
take it and eat it and when you do
do it in love for me’
everytime we sing it at mass if makes me feel like jesus is saying those words to us its beautiful.
Kum by yah is another one i aint keen on partly because we sang it constantly in school
x

 

[benedictgal]

We had mass at school on friday and had to sing the gloria one the kids love to sing it but i just cannot seem to get away with it of course i do sing it because we sing to the lord but its just not my favourite my all time favourite has to be the one that goes
’ this is my body, broken for you
bringing you wholeness making you free
take it and eat it and when you do
do it in love for me’
everytime we sing it at mass if makes me feel like jesus is saying those words to us its beautiful.
Kum by yah is another one i aint keen on partly because we sang it constantly in school
x

You might point out to the folks at school that this Gloria is not allowed. Clapping aside, no one has the authority to change the words of any part of the Mass, and, this includes the Gloria.

Regarding the song you quoted, it’s a little on the questionable side because while the Body and Blood of Jesus bring us wholeness, there is much more to that than the lyrics represent. No wonder children have such a skewed understanding of the meaning of receiving Jesus in Holy Communion. Why not sing something that is a little easier such as I Received the Living God, and My Heart is Full of Joy?

From the sounds of it, y’all need a stronger program of solid liturgical music. As a Catholic School, you are responsible for forming these young children. The songs that are being chosen are far from doing that.

I don’t want to sound mean. I, too, went through that horrid period known as the Glory and Praise, SLJ era. It was particularly bad. I hated the songs we had to sing at my Catholic School. It wasn’t until I left my hometown to attend the University of Texas that I discovered that a plethora of liturgically and doctrinally sound music existed. When I look back at the stuff we had to sing (and I still hear children singing it), it makes me wonder if we are doing children any favors by introducing them to junk. Certainly the music is not very easy to sing. The older pieces (like At the Lamb’s High Feast, O Sun of Justice and O Come, O Come Emmanuel) are certainly easier to sing.

It was a losing battle to try to get my diocese to change direction. Hopefully, when the Holy Father comes and has to be subjected to the kind of mindless junk we have to endure Sunday after Sunday, he will make some very necessary changes.

 

[Phemie]

You’ll be happy to know that someone finally took OCP to the woodshed for that nappy, clappy Gloria and they’ve removed it form the realms of service music and transferred it to the hymns section, instead. Furthermore, that is not even the Gloria, but a very loose paraphrase of the prayer.

This morning at Mass I felt as though I’d gone through a time warp:

Entrance Hymn: Seek Ye First, Karen Lafferty

Gloria: Carey Landry, Young People’s Mass

Offertory: All That I Am, Sebastian Temple

EP Acclamations: MOC

Agnus Dei: MOC with tropes

Communion: Take and Eat

Recessional: The Mass Is Ended (all go in peace, we must diminish and Christ increase…

 

[Tracy07]

You might point out to the folks at school that this Gloria is not allowed. Clapping aside, no one has the authority to change the words of any part of the Mass, and, this includes the Gloria.

Regarding the song you quoted, it’s a little on the questionable side because while the Body and Blood of Jesus bring us wholeness, there is much more to that than the lyrics represent. No wonder children have such a skewed understanding of the meaning of receiving Jesus in Holy Communion. Why not sing something that is a little easier such as I Received the Living God, and My Heart is Full of Joy?

From the sounds of it, y’all need a stronger program of solid liturgical music. As a Catholic School, you are responsible for forming these young children. The songs that are being chosen are far from doing that.

Well we have never been told that this is not allowed it is sung as a hymn so why is this not allowed?
With regards to the hymn that i quoted the children are educated and know full well what else is involved in receiving the body and blood of christ, this is not one of the songs we sing at school mass anyway it is one we sing at mass in church i said it was one of my favourites not one we sang at school sorry if it confused you the way i wrote it.
The children all go through holy communion classes and are taught in these classes but also in school the importance of the eucharist so i can honestly say hand on heart that these children are formed very well in their understanding not only of that but of all things to do with mass and about their faith.
There is many many hymns sung at school and church masses this is just one i am not overly keen on.x

 

[benedictgal]

This morning at Mass I felt as though I’d gone through a time warp:

Entrance Hymn: Seek Ye First, Karen Lafferty

Gloria: Carey Landry, Young People’s Mass

Offertory: All That I Am, Sebastian Temple

EP Acclamations: MOC

Agnus Dei: MOC with tropes

Communion: Take and Eat

Recessional: The Mass Is Ended (all go in peace, we must diminish and Christ increase…

That is terrible. What’s even worse is that they seem to have forgotten that we are still in the Easter season. That is bad. I guess it is just as horrid to hear that as it is to hear Jesus Christ is Risen Today to the tune of Michael Rowed His Boat Ashore, Phemie.

Now, regarding what you posted, Tracey, I would suggest that you get the Christopher Walker version of the Gloria (clappy one) and compare it to what is found in the Roman Missal. This is what Redemptionis Sacramentum says on the matter:

For the Sacred Liturgy is quite intimately connected with principles of doctrine,25 so that the use of unapproved texts and rites necessarily leads either to the attenuation or to the disappearance of that necessary link between the lex orandi and the lex credendi.26

[11.] The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured”.

Furthermore, OCP may have the word “Catholic” as its middle name, but, quite a few of its selections run contrary to what is allowed for use in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Inasmuch as there will be some who will claim that Children’s Liturgies have some leeway; you cannot paraphrase one of the parts of the Mass to the point that it is unrecognizable.

It shouldn’t so much be a matter of that:

Well we have never been told that this is not allowed it is sung as a hymn so why is this not allowed?

Rather, some basic research would actually help illuminate the issues of doubt. The idea of the Children’ Mass is supposed to be to mainstream children into the Liturgy. However, in order to properly teach them about the Mass, they need to learn the correct prayers and not a paraphrase (and a very bad one, at that) of these important Mass parts.

As far as the hymn that you quoted is concerned, I am not questioning what is going on in the classroom. All that I am saying is that everything should be on the “same page”, so to speak. The Church’s teaching on the Holy Eucharist should be accurately reflected in the hymn selection for the Mass. This is very important. These children need to receive the same message and it must be a doctrinally correct message.

 

[Tracy07]

That is terrible. What’s even worse is that they seem to have forgotten that we are still in the Easter season. That is bad. I guess it is just as horrid to hear that as it is to hear Jesus Christ is Risen Today to the tune of Michael Rowed His Boat Ashore, Phemie.

Now, regarding what you posted, Tracey, I would suggest that you get the Christopher Walker version of the Gloria (clappy one) and compare it to what is found in the Roman Missal. This is what Redemptionis Sacramentum says on the matter:

Furthermore, OCP may have the word “Catholic” as its middle name, but, quite a few of its selections run contrary to what is allowed for use in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Inasmuch as there will be some who will claim that Children’s Liturgies have some leeway; you cannot paraphrase one of the parts of the Mass to the point that it is unrecognizable.

It shouldn’t so much be a matter of that:

Rather, some basic research would actually help illuminate the issues of doubt. The idea of the Children’ Mass is supposed to be to mainstream children into the Liturgy. However, in order to properly teach them about the Mass, they need to learn the correct prayers and not a paraphrase (and a very bad one, at that) of these important Mass parts.

As far as the hymn that you quoted is concerned, I am not questioning what is going on in the classroom. All that I am saying is that everything should be on the “same page”, so to speak. The Church’s teaching on the Holy Eucharist should be accurately reflected in the hymn selection for the Mass. This is very important. These children need to receive the same message and it must be a doctrinally correct message.

Thankyou for your suggestions i will of course look into what you have said I would like to say however that father is heavily involved with the school in fact two priests are involved with the school and neither one of them have mentioned any of what you have said, furthermore these hymns are both in our hymn book for catholic schools which is used allover the uk, in fact there is a message to all the children in this book it reads:
“Dear children,
the songs in this book have a simple message- that god loves you, all the time and everywhere! He also loves everyone else in the world, and because he made the world, he loves that too.
Wouldnt it be wonderful if we could love everyone and everything the way god does so there would be no more bullying, quarrels, fighting or wars? That might not happen straight away but we can make a start on it right now, wherever we are.”
Surely the point is that children do go to church and sing hymns i think thats much more important to be honest i would much rather they did go then not.
Thanks again for your words.
x

 

[benedictgal]

Thankyou for your suggestions i will of course look into what you have said I would like to say however that father is heavily involved with the school in fact two priests are involved with the school and neither one of them have mentioned any of what you have said, furthermore these hymns are both in our hymn book for catholic schools which is used allover the uk, in fact there is a message to all the children in this book it reads:
"Dear children,
the songs in this book have a simple message- that god loves you, all the time and everywhere! He also loves everyone else in the world, and because he made the world, he loves that too.
Wouldnt it be wonderful if we could love everyone and everything the way god does so there would be no more bullying, quarrels, fighting or wars? That might not happen straight away but we can make a start on it right now, wherever we are."
Surely the point is that children do go to church and sing hymns i think thats much more important to be honest i would much rather they did go then not.
Thanks again for your words.
x

Christopher Walker, the songwriter of the questionable Gloria, hails from the UK; in fact, OCP’s tentacles reach all the way across the pond, and, into Australia, as well.

The problem I see with the foreword to the hymnal is that the First Commandment is completely forgotten. More important than loving everyone on the planet is the fact that we must love God first. That is the most important Commandment. Loving God means that we have to offer Him the worship that is due Him. This worship must follow the norms and rubrics established by the Church. When we begin to worship God in the right way, then, everything else will fall into place.

The problem is that we have not made the First Commandment first in our lives. If we ourselves aren’t doing that, how can we expect our children to do the same? If we aren’t teaching the children about proper liturgy (through song) what will they do when they grow up?

 

[Tracy07]

Christopher Walker, the songwriter of the questionable Gloria, hails from the UK; in fact, OCP’s tentacles reach all the way across the pond, and, into Australia, as well.

The problem I see with the foreword to the hymnal is that the First Commandment is completely forgotten. More important than loving everyone on the planet is the fact that we must love God first. That is the most important Commandment. Loving God means that we have to offer Him the worship that is due Him. This worship must follow the norms and rubrics established by the Church. When we begin to worship God in the right way, then, everything else will fall into place.

The problem is that we have not made the First Commandment first in our lives. If we ourselves aren’t doing that, how can we expect our children to do the same? If we aren’t teaching the children about proper liturgy (through song) what will they do when they grow up?

I understand what you are saying however, i have just asked my son the question who do we love first in our lives? and he answered God he is the one we love most in our lives. Now if we werent teaching them the most important commandment then he wouldnt have answered the question with those words.
I do understand the importance of music in liturgy but i also think that mass as a whole, music included, is what teaches our children, also school and home life its all of it combined that makes our children who they are and allows them to learn what their faith means to them.
I do think though that those who are not taking their children to church in our parish are wrong because the children who do not go to church might not give the same answer as my son just has not unprompted anyway.
Fortunately for me my children are at church every week and listen and take part in mass i feel this is very important.
My son is an altar server and loves to go to church, despite some people in our community not being particularly accepting of people going to church he still goes because he loves god, that to me speaks volumes.
x

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Re. the awful “clapping” Gloria-can someone direct me to a document forbidding its use in Mass & I will gladly share that at our parish. We had to endure that for my son’s Confirmation, also the “Harry Belafonte” Holly, holly, holly loooooyah.
The kids even seemed to think this stuff was out of a time warp-how old are the composers? In their 60’s, 70’s?
Let’s pick out a couple hymns from that time period that have a little integrity & put the rest in the recycling bin.

 

[benedictgal]

Re. the awful “clapping” Gloria-can someone direct me to a document forbidding its use in Mass & I will gladly share that at our parish. We had to endure that for my son’s Confirmation, also the “Harry Belafonte” Holly, holly, holly loooooyah.
The kids even seemed to think this stuff was out of a time warp-how old are the composers? In their 60’s, 70’s?
Let’s pick out a couple hymns from that time period that have a little integrity & put the rest in the recycling bin.

I posted this a couple of posts back. It comes from Redemptionis Sacramentum:

For the Sacred Liturgy is quite intimately connected with principles of doctrine,25 so that the use of unapproved texts and rites necessarily leads either to the attenuation or to the disappearance of that necessary link between the lex orandi and the lex credendi.26

[11.] The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured”.

That infamous Gloria is a bad paraphrase of the Gloria found in the Roman Missal. While the Directory for Children’s Masses does have some leeway, it does not go to the point of completely slaughtering the texts, as this song does. If we are supposed to integrate children into the Mass, we need to teach them the appropriate prayers correctly and straight from the Roman MIssal.

Now, regarding Tracey’s previous post, it’s good that your understands the meaning of the First Commandment. Unfortunately, not very many parents will sit down and take the time to prepare their children in the Faith. They seem to abdicate this responsibility to their parish CCD programs. Parents are supposed to be the first teachers of the Faith. That is how we pass down the Faith from one generation to the next.

Music, especially for children, is supposed to help. However, when the lyrics are questionable and when they go against what the Church requires, then you’ve got some serious problems.

 

[Tracy07]

I posted this a couple of posts back. It comes from Redemptionis Sacramentum:

That infamous Gloria is a bad paraphrase of the Gloria found in the Roman Missal. While the Directory for Children’s Masses does have some leeway, it does not go to the point of completely slaughtering the texts, as this song does. If we are supposed to integrate children into the Mass, we need to teach them the appropriate prayers correctly and straight from the Roman MIssal.

Now, regarding Tracey’s previous post, it’s good that your understands the meaning of the First Commandment. Unfortunately, not very many parents will sit down and take the time to prepare their children in the Faith. They seem to abdicate this responsibility to their parish CCD programs. Parents are supposed to be the first teachers of the Faith. That is how we pass down the Faith from one generation to the next.

Music, especially for children, is supposed to help. However, when the lyrics are questionable and when they go against what the Church requires, then you’ve got some serious problems.

Hi there i agree with you 100% parents are supposed to be the first teachers they are the people who children learn from most everyday in the examples we set and the things we teach them.
Combined with the school i feel my children are getting the very best catholic upbringing myself and my parish can possible offer, we live in a world now where children are ridiculed for their beliefs my children stand firm in their beliefs and pray for those that ridicule.
With regards to the music i think we will have to agree to disagree im afraid i will certainly look into what you have said about the gloria but as for the other music i myself think that the music we sing at mass and at school mass reinforces what they learn at school and dont have any problem with it. sorry if you disagree but thats just my opinion
I think in some parishes parents need to be more involved with the children and the church as some of the children take the children to church during the preparation for first holy communion and then are never seen again at church after the children receive it for the first time, i feel its only the children that lose out in this situation and its such a shame.
Just to add the gloria the children sing is not to replace the original Gloria all the children know the original it is not being taught instead of the original merely used as a hymn, just wanted to clarify.
God bless
x

 

[daeve]

The gloria one where everyone claps in the chorus takes the biscuit for me.

JD

The calypso Gloria. Yes, despise it. It seems so trivial for Mass. We don’t clap anymore (thank You Lord) but we did sing it on Easter morning. Yuck.