Non-Believers who Identify as Catholic, and their effect

[orfeo1]

I’ve known many, many “Catholics” like o, who disavow most if not all of the tenets of the Catholic faith while loudly proclaiming themselves to be Catholic

Yes and some are in politics

I find that very saddening. Truly impedes many potential believers from learning further. . .

 

[Padres1969]

Several things, first, was there a question? I mean I think I know what you’re trying to get at but it would be better next time to spell out what your question or point is for clarity sake.

Second, strictly speaking they’re Catholic. If they were baptized Catholic, per the RCC they’re Catholic. Their identifying as Catholic, while espousing non-Catholic or even anti-Catholic view honestly is irrelevant strictly speaking.

Third, while my second point holds, from a non-RCC view, I can see how the situations you pose in the OP can be distressing for orthodox or at least better adhering Catholics. That “cultural” Catholics who identify as Catholic less out of any agreement or participation with the church and more out of a sense of cultural connection to family, tradition, etc… can skew the way the RCC and its more active and obedient adherents are viewed by the world. Honestly I was once in that realm you discuss about non-obedient or cultural Catholics after I’d drifted away from the RCC as an active place to practice my faith, but still identified as Catholic if asked at the time. My parents are the same today, they’ve not been to mass in more than a decade, and my dad hasn’t taken communion in 30 years, and both hold to many non-Catholic views about a slew of topics, but if you asked them what their religion is they’d both say Catholic without missing a beat. Only difference between us is that I got tired of the hypocrisy of saying one thing but believing another.

 

[orfeo1]

Several things, first, was there a question?

No. . . it was my observations and impression.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

I know quite a few “Catholics” who disbelieve much of our body of faith, but who proclaim themselves to the world as being Catholic.

I am considered a cradle Catholic, but no longer identify as Catholic in the world for this very reason. I am going to declare something that I no longer identify with.

 

[orfeo1]

I have a friend who is male. He chooses to identify as female, but to my mind he is still a man. It is not my official proclamation, just my personal impression.

I know a couple of people who identify as vegetarian, but who eat meat a few times per month. In my mind, they are not vegetarians. It is not my official proclamation, just my personal impression.

I had a childhood friend who identified as Italian. He doesn’t have a single drop of Italian blood in him, but he took on an Italian mob persona, and told everybody he was Italian. I don’t consider him Italian. It is not my official proclamation, just my personal impression.

I knew a guy with a Pontiac Fiero that had a “Ferrari” looking body kit on it with a Ferrari logo. He liked to tell people it was a real Ferrari. I never considered it a Ferrari. To me, it was a Fiero with a Ferrari-looking body kit on it. Again, just my personal impression.

A girl I am close with identifies as being 5 feet 5 inches tall, even though she measures 5 feet 2 inches. It even says 5’ 5" on her driver license and physician records. In my mind, she is 5 feet 2 inches. It’s not my official proclamation, just my personal impression.

 

[MNathaniel]

Pattylt:

Do you want a person like Rico to identify himself in public as Catholic or not?

What business is it of mine? Jesus told a parable specifically about this. It’s called the parable of the wheat and tares

The point of the parable isn’t to tolerate a brother scandalizing potential converts. This would be to tolerate grave harm when we could in charity act to prevent the harm. Jesus explicitly says there are times to eject an unrepentant person from the Church community until they’re ready to actually repent and conform to it.

“What business is it of mine?” starts to sound a lot like: “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

 

[historyfan81]

An example is a close member of my family who doesn’t attend Mass (not even on Christmas), doesn’t believe in the Sacraments, doesn’t believe Jesus died for our sins, and doesn’t believe in the Real Presence at Holy Communion. For the sake of anonymity, I’ll call him “Rico”. Rico says Jesus was not God, did not perform miracles, did not rise from the dead, but that He was merely a wise, moral, human preacher. Rico strongly believes that earthly death is final, and that there is no such thing as eternity or life after death. Rico coerced two of his wives into having multiple abortions, and believes a fetus is not human but merely a lump of tissue not unlike a tumor or any other biological “growth”.

that is not even not catholic that is rejecting the fundamental view of christianity even old heresies like arainisim and heck Adoptionism still had the central chirstian doctrines.

 

[orfeo1]

Last night I was watching EWTN. This very topic came up with regard to Biden & Pelosi proclaiming their Catholicity while promoting abortion and the culture of death. The priest said it was a very grave situation, brought scandal to the Church, and that their souls were in imminent jeopardy. . . especially because it tells nominal Catholics that intrinsic evils are ok.

They (people like Rico, Biden, and Pelosi) subvert the truth and the message of the Church (to the peril of their souls).

 

[Le_Cracquere]

The effect of such a thing can be different, depending on where you live. For example, the only Catholics I knew were a handful of scattered northern transplants. Until well into adulthood, I never met a single Catholic who believed OR WAS EVEN AWARE OF usual Christian teachings about God, Jesus, the Trinity, you name it. This is not an exaggeration for effect.

When the situation’s like that, it’s hard to overstate the sheer magnitude of scandal this poses, or the massiveness of the stumbling block it poses to anyone inclined even to curiosity about the Church. If the internet hadn’t been invented, then I have no doubt I’d still be Protestant … and would have no reasons whatsoever to consider being anything else.

 

[orfeo1]

Until well into adulthood, I never met a single Catholic who believed OR WAS EVEN AWARE OF usual Christian teachings about God, Jesus, the Trinity, you name it

. . . the stumbling block it poses to anyone inclined even to curiosity about the Church.

Sadly, I must admit that I too, despite my 12 years of Catholic schools and weekly Mass, was somewhat one of those you mention. Not so much that I was unaware of the usual Christian teachings and disbelieved, but I will say that when I was young there were many “holes” in my education, and a strong tendency to cherry-pick what I felt worked for me. I suspect it was largely the times I grew up in:

The sixties & seventies hit the traditional Church like a mudslide. Everything was changing, and everyone wanted to get with the times. Nuns lost their habits, priests began to turn their sacred spaces into almost unidentifiable, cafeteria-looking buildings. . . It seems everything was upended in the spirit (supposedly) of Vatican 2. I think that there is a much-needed revival of sorts beginning today, which harkens back to a more solemn & devout time. . . Thank God

 

[Marie7]

Catholic is as Catholic does. At best, the people you describe are lapsed Catholics.