Non- Catholic Christians: can you lose your salvation?

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TULIPed said:
I know - from reading the Catechism and talking with my friends and family (some of whom who are Catholic priests), while technically correct, this is actually sinful behavior in that their intent (and actual contrition at confession) while attending and taking part in Mass is sinful in and of itself
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See there’s the difference.

Catholic teaching doesn’t give that license. OSAS does.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
See there’s the difference. Catholic teaching doesn’t give that license. OSAS does.
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OSAS means that, once “saved”, you can give into any temptation to sin and you will still get to Heaven. So theoretically, a Christian can become another Ted Bundy and the God of holiness and justice will reward that life of grave sin and disobedience with eternal life!

Even from the point of view of simple logic, OSAS is a nonsense doctrine.
 
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Julius_Caesar said:
Catholic teaching doesn’t give that license. OSAS does.
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Please provide support for this (where the Perseverance of the Saints doctrine supports a license to sin) - perhaps a link to a confession. Thanks.
 
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Buzzard3 said:
And I’ve never even heard of any Catholics who think they have “the right to do whatever they want between attending Mass”. If such Catholics exist, they are woefully ignorant of Church teaching. Catholics are not taught that they ever have “the right to do whatever they want”.
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Agreed. Neither are properly catechized Reformed Christians.
 
TULIPed said:
Please provide support for this (where the Perseverance of the Saints doctrine supports a license to sin) - perhaps a link to a confession.
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Because “a true Christian will get up when he sins” isn’t license? You’re right. Totally isn’t.
 
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TULIPed said:
When they leave Mass, they are actually completely righteous (until they sin again). I know Catholics who believe (mistakenly I think) that this gives them the right to do whatever they want between attending Mass.
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Both sides have their carnal Christians, which, IMO, are not Christians at all as they lack true repentance…

But I feel like this is where Calvinism sort of muddies the water by semi-allowing something that God detests(sin), because, well, he/she accepted Jesus into their hearts as Lord and Savior so who am I to step in and cast judgment? I know Jimmy said the prayer because I was there 10 years ago at the prayer meeting when it happened.

On the Catholic/Orthodox or Arminian Protestant side, our mommas will be real quick to slap you upside the head with a rosary or a bible or something if you cross that line 🤣 I’m not saying that does not happen with Calvinists, I just have this perception of them being more tolerant of sin as they have the idea that everything is all pre-destined to happened and the race is already over and done with. Tends to remove the here and now out of the current moment, imo.

Of course I say all this with the upmost respect. You do not conduct yourself poorly like the usual Calvinists I have encountered, especially those on Al Gore’s internets!
 
Lenten_ashes said:
But I feel like this is where Calvinism sort of muddies the water by semi-allowing something that God detests(sin), because, well, he/she accepted Jesus into their hearts as Lord and Savior so who am I to step in and cast judgment? I know Jimmy said the prayer because I was there 10 years ago at the prayer meeting when it happened.
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I think we could do a better job with countering sin, no question. Where we fall short though - in my opinion, is accountability (sort of similar to what you said, but for a different reason). We don’t do confession - not formally at least. Said another way - confession to a human being is not a requirement or discipline we have. I don’t know why we don’t - we should.
Lenten_ashes said:
Of course I say all this with the upmost respect. You do not conduct yourself poorly like the usual Calvinists I have encountered, especially those on Al Gore’s internets!
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You’re too kind @Lenten_ashes. Stay safe and healthy my friend.
 
TULIPed said:
We don’t do confession - not formally at least. Said another way - confession to a human being is not a requirement or discipline we have. I don’t know why we don’t - we should.
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Some of the Southern Baptist men’s groups where I live have voluntary accountability groups to help with this sort of thing. A Baptist friend of mine goes to one, although he’s disappointed that most of the men in his congregation don’t attend.

Are Baptists considered ‘Reformed’ as you understand the term?
 
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There are Reformed Baptists - the classic modern example is John Piper. They are basically non-paedobaptism Calvinists. Said another way - they are Presbyterians who only baptize those at the age of accountability (typically around 7th grade or older).

They pretty much agree with all of the classic Reformed confessions (Westminster, Helvetic, etc.) and govern via a Presbyterian construct (deacons & elders).
 
TULIPed said:
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Julius_Caesar:
Because “a true Christian will get up when he sins” isn’t license? You’re right. Totally isn’t.
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Sorry - not following. Is that quote from a confession?
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Do you deny this?
 
TULIPed said:
We don’t do confession - not formally at least. Said another way - confession to a human being is not a requirement or discipline we have. I don’t know why we don’t - we should.
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The only reason it works in the Catholic Church is because of the the “seal of confession”. It avoids trouble/gossip, etc. So on the Protestant Christian side it would need to be someone or people who you hold a great amount of trust in, imo.

But it’s a tremendous experience. One in which I did not believe in prior to becoming Catholic, tbh.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
Is this not what is taught of the elect?
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Never heard it in my life - and I’m a cradle Presbyterian. I searched the Westminster and Helvetic confessions, also looked through the Institutes just for grins - cant’ find it.

So once again - you said that the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints allows one to sin as much as they want. Please provide a link supporting this claim. For example - here’s one from the 2nd Helvetic Confession saying pretty much exactly the opposite (this is focused more on the concept of predestination, but applies to perseverance as well):

“ What in This Matter Is To Be Condemned . Therefore we do not approve of the impious speeches of some who say, “Few are chosen, and since I do not know whether I am among the number of the few, I will enjoy myself.” Others say, “If I am predestinated and elected by God, nothing can hinder me from salvation, which is already certainly appointed for me, no matter what I do. But if I am in the number of the reprobate, no faith or repentance will help me, since the decree of God cannot be changed. Therefore all doctrines and admonitions are useless.” Now the saying of the apostle contradicts these men: “The Lord’s servant must be ready to teach, instructing those who oppose him, so that if God should grant that they repent to know the truth, they may recover from the snare of the devil, after being held captive by him to do his will” (2 Tim. 2:23 ff.)”

I’m not trying to be pejorative here - you seem like a well learned person. I’m genuinely curious to see scholarly information on Calvinist doctrine. Thanks.
 
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