non-Catholic Christians - "Did You Know"?

[Jimmy_B]

I find it amazing that there exist “Protestants” here at CAF, who are arguing, just a much with Martin Luther and the early Protestant Church as with Catholicism.

Did you know, according to Martin Luther, Infant Baptism is ok, more here

“That the Baptism of infants is pleasing to Christ”
-The Large Catechism by Martin Luther.

Did you know, according to Martin Luther, Absolution and confessing to a priest (“a confessor”) is ok, more here

“Since Absolution or the Power of the Keys is also an aid and consolation against sin and a bad conscience, ordained by Christ [Himself] in the Gospel, Confession or Absolution ought by no means to be abolished in the Church, especially on account of [tender and] timid consciences and on account of the untrained [and capricious] young people, in order that they may be examined, and instructed in the Christian doctrine.” – --The Smalcald Articles, By Martin Luther.

“When speaking to God, we should plead guilty to all sins, even those we don’t know about, just as we do in the “Our Father,” but when speaking to the confessor, only the sins we know about, which we know about and feel in our hearts.”

• Luther’s Little Instruction Book
  (The Small Catechism of Martin Luther)

Did you know, Martin Luther believed in the “Real Presence” when referring to the Eucharist, more here

“It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ under bread and wine for us Christians to eat and to drink, established by Christ Himself.”
-Luther’s Little Instruction Book
(The Small Catechism of Martin Luther)

Did you know that Martin Luther Venerated Mary:
“There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.”
“The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.” (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

 

[Jimmy_B]

Did you know that Martin Luther Venerated Mary (continued):
“[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.” (Martin Luther’s Sermon, Christmas, 1531).
“No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity.” (Martin Luther’s Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).
“One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God’s grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God.” (Martin Luther’s Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).
Luther gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted position of “Spiritual Mother” for Christians:
*“It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother .” *(Martin Luther’s Sermon, Christmas, 1522)
More here.

 

[bengal_fan]

did you know that one of the calls of the reformation was “always reforming”? that means that we don’t just take what luther says as if he’s the pope, but we are constantly trying to seek the truth.

also, i love the quote from luther about venerating mary that you used. it is exactly what nearly every protestant would say. mary is in heaven and that’s all we know about it so we shouldn’t make an article of faith of it.

 

[Jimmy_B]

bengal_fan posted:
“did you know that one of the calls of the reformation was “always reforming”? that means that we don’t just take what luther says as if he’s the pope, but we are constantly trying to seek the truth.”

*Hello bengal_fan, thank you for your post. You are correct and since the “Protestant” break from Catholicism, “Protestants” are still today “constantly trying to seek the truth”.

So, of the estimate 36,000 different non-Catholic Christian religions, to what 'truth" do you subscribe? Moreover, why aren’t the “truths” contained in all the other (36,000) Christian religions the same?

Protestant, “Christian Reform” is nothing more than: many different expressions of a mans desire to have God on his terms, and not on God’s terms.

*If one does not like or disagrees with the “truthes”, doctrine or rule-set of any given, non-Catholic Christian religion; start another religon. *

*That is why there exist so many non-Catholic Christian religions today. Don’t take my word for it, look-up the history of “your” religion (or beliefs), or any non-Catholic Christian religion (or beliefs) and see for yourself. *

Out of everything I posted (post # 1), all you have for me is one “sort of” disagreement.

If what you say is true, why won’t you dispute Martin Luther’s beliefs? It is because, on these issues, he is in agreement with Catholicism?

Why aren’t “Protestants” as eager to openly argue their own differences with one another, as they are with the Roman Catholic Church, or Catholics?

*Please try again, Thank you *
*

 

[bengal_fan]

i actually don’t disagree with anything you posted from luther. i believe in the real presence. i think confession to a priest is great (although public confession would actually be what the early church practiced and i would be more for that). i do think mary is in heaven and holds a place of significance there. the reason not every protestant denomination (nor any two catholics if you get them in the room together as well as orthodox) don’t have exactly all the same beliefs is because we are human. Christ promised to lead us into all truth, not that He has led us into all truth. also, i think your generalization of protestantism could just as easily be placed upon catholics (the one about wanting God on “our” terms as opposed to “His” terms) or orthodox. every religion is an attempt to commune with God and we do it in the way that: 1. we learn from our parents or other close members of community, and 2. what we realize speaks to us. you obviously find God through the ritual and “sure-footing” of catholicism while i meet Him in other places. both through Christ.

i don’t need to try again… i already succeeded. my goal was not to convince you of anything, it was to communicate a truth which i did. therefore i had already succeeded.

nice font by the way.

 

[Jimmy_B]

i actually don’t disagree with anything you posted from luther. i believe in the real presence. i think confession to a priest is great (although public confession would actually be what the early church practiced and i would be more for that). i do think mary is in heaven and holds a place of significance there. the reason not every protestant denomination (nor any two catholics if you get them in the room together as well as orthodox) don’t have exactly all the same beliefs is because we are human. Christ promised to lead us into all truth, not that He has led us into all truth. also, i think your generalization of protestantism could just as easily be placed upon catholics (the one about wanting God on “our” terms as opposed to “His” terms) or orthodox. every religion is an attempt to commune with God and we do it in the way that: 1. we learn from our parents or other close members of community, and 2. what we realize speaks to us. you obviously find God through the ritual and “sure-footing” of catholicism while i meet Him in other places. both through Christ.

i don’t need to try again… i already succeeded. my goal was not to convince you of anything, it was to communicate a truth which i did. therefore i had already succeeded.

nice font by the way.

Thank you. So you like my font, I do it so I can see it better, I wished everybody here used the same size font.

God Bless You…

P.s. You didn’t “succeed”, because you haven’t returned the Roman Catholic Church. :extrahappy:

Please try again , Thank You!

 

[Jimmy_B]

Hello again bengal-fan,

You know what I like about you…………everything, well almost everything. Maybe we can team up like Batman and Robin and can work together to bring some of these Christians here closer to the truth, or at least to an agreement on the issues that you and I agree. :hug3:

Let’s see;

•     The “Real Presence” of Jesus in the Eucharist (check)

•     Confession to a priest (check)

•     Mary is in heaven and “holds a place of significance there” (check)

I’ll even let you be Batman, how about it? :bounce:

Here is your chance to “succeed”, Please try again, Thank You!

 

[Claudius]

Did you know that Luther adviced his own mother NOT to leave the Catholic Church because he CARED about her? It is like deep down inside Luther knew that he was a fraud. He knew that the Catholic Church and only the Catholic Church is the Ecclesia established by Jesus. He had his own little carrer to worry about but when someone he really loved got involved, he was forced to admit the truth through his actions. He knew he was wrong and he didn’t want his mother to follow him into error. He was willing to take a chance with his own soul, and the souls of million of others and over time, billions but he was not willing to allow his mother, whom Luther really loved, to take a chance with her soul.

 

[Hilde89]

Luther is not our authority.

 

[Righteousone]

Luther is not our authority.

Oh, but he is in some way, since your church with Protestanism only could start with Luther in the 1500’s, followed by King Henry…bottom line is , your religion is not from Christ.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Oh, but he is in some way, since your church with Protestanism only could start with Luther in the 1500’s, followed by King Henry…bottom line is , your religion is not from Christ.

We look only to Christ and his holy word the Bible. You need to quit living in the past.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Did you know that Luther adviced his own mother NOT to leave the Catholic Church because he CARED about her? It is like deep down inside Luther knew that he was a fraud. He knew that the Catholic Church and only the Catholic Church is the Ecclesia established by Jesus. He had his own little carrer to worry about but when someone he really loved got involved, he was forced to admit the truth through his actions. He knew he was wrong and he didn’t want his mother to follow him into error. He was willing to take a chance with his own soul, and the souls of million of others and over time, billions but he was not willing to allow his mother, whom Luther really loved, to take a chance with her soul.

I would like to see some document that says this and what time frame it was done.

You make a lot of assumptions based on what might have been said to his mother and about Luther’s inward thoughts.

He wanted to reform the church, but it would not listen, but instead excommunicated him. He didn’t want to leave the church and according to history he communicated that. If he did say this to his mother I could understand that. He didn’t want her to go through what he did. Why would he?

He never meant to start another denomination and you should be aware of that already. It’s really presumptuous to make your assertions as you have.

The historical documents do not back up your claims.

Peace…

MW

 

[Righteousone]

We look only to Christ and his holy word the Bible. You need to quit living in the past.

If I quit living in the past, I will never know or have known about my one, holy Catholic and apostolic church, which comes from much history with Christ…maybe you should live in the past…
Remember…To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.

 

[Righteousone]

I would like to see some document that says this and what time frame it was done.

You make a lot of assumptions based on what might have been said to his mother and about Luther’s inward thoughts.

He wanted to reform the church, but it would not listen, but instead excommunicated him. He didn’t want to leave the church and according to history he communicated that. If he did say this to his mother I could understand that. He didn’t want her to go through what he did. Why would he?

He never meant to start another denomination and you should be aware of that already. It’s really presumptuous to make your assertions as you have.

The historical documents do not back up your claims.

Peace…

MW

All you have to do is read Luther’s biography…

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Oh, but he is in some way, since your church with Protestanism only could start with Luther in the 1500’s, followed by King Henry…bottom line is , your religion is not from Christ.

You are forgetting that the Orthodox didn’t accept the Pope’s authority approximately 500 years before that. So, they are the first “reformers”. Or they could argue that the Western churches were the reformers or “changers” since they changed the filoque and the pope at Rome claimed supreme authority. It’s all about perspective my friend.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

All you have to do is read Luther’s biography…

And what is his biography going to tell me? And is there a link to such? And is this going to contradict the historical documents that show otherwise?

Peace…

MW

 

[Righteousone]

You are forgetting that the Orthodox didn’t accept the Pope’s authority approximately 500 years before that. So, they are the first “reformers”. Or they could argue that the Western churches were the reformers or “changers” since they changed the filoque and the pope at Rome claimed supreme authority. It’s all about perspective my friend.

Peace…

MW

Well, if you were really a history buff, then you’d know that the Orthodox broke away from the Catholic church in 1059 in unity with the pope. And it is all about Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic church…my friend.

 

[Righteousone]

And what is his biography going to tell me? And is there a link to such? And is this going to contradict the historical documents that show otherwise?

Peace…

MW

Instead of always asking gazillion questions here, why not do some research…

 

[East_Anglican]

I find it amazing that there exist “Protestants” here at CAF, who are arguing, just a much with Martin Luther and the early Protestant Church as with Catholicism.

Did you know, according to Martin Luther, Infant Baptism is ok, more here

“That the Baptism of infants is pleasing to Christ”
-The Large Catechism by Martin Luther.

Yes I did know that and I agree with Martin Luther on this matter.

Did you know, according to Martin Luther, Absolution and confessing to a priest (“a confessor”) is ok, more here

“Since Absolution or the Power of the Keys is also an aid and consolation against sin and a bad conscience, ordained by Christ [Himself] in the Gospel, Confession or Absolution ought by no means to be abolished in the Church, especially on account of [tender and] timid consciences and on account of the untrained [and capricious] young people, in order that they may be examined, and instructed in the Christian doctrine.” – --The Smalcald Articles, By Martin Luther.

Yes I did know this and I agree with Martin Luther on this matter also.

Did you know, Martin Luther believed in the “Real Presence” when referring to the Eucharist, more here

“It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ under bread and wine for us Christians to eat and to drink, established by Christ Himself.”
-Luther’s Little Instruction Book
(The Small Catechism of Martin Luther)

Yes I knew this as well and I also agree with Martin Luther on this matter.

Please refer to my signiture for details.

Did you know that Martin Luther Venerated Mary:
“There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.”
“The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.” (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

Of course she’s in Heaven. Where else would she be?
No article of faith can be made. I agree with Martin Luther here also. Then it gets sticky.

 

[East_Anglican]

Did you know that Martin Luther Venerated Mary (continued):
“[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.” (Martin Luther’s Sermon, Christmas, 1531).
“No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity.” (Martin Luther’s Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).

There is honour of The Mother of our lord and honour that injures Christ and the scriptures.

Of course she is more than Eve or Sarah as the Mother of Christ.

Believeing this does not make somebody Roman Catholic.

]“One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God’s grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God.”

(Martin Luther’s Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).

Through her came Christ and through Christ we come to God.

]Luther gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted position of “Spiritual Mother” for Christians:
*“It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother .” *(Martin Luther’s Sermon, Christmas, 1522)
More here.

I knew this also. But Martin Luther wasn’t right on everything. No Christian I know would call The Book of James an epistle of straw.

Non-Catholics do not all agree and Protestants do not all agree. As an Anglican i’m likely to agree with Martin Luthers teaching.