non-Catholic Christians - "Did You Know"?

[khutcheson]

Hello khutcheson,

Thank you for your comments,

I appreciated your comments and there is some truth to what you wrote. However, lets be honest, the reason “Protestant” religions are referred to as such, is because, they our “protesting” the Roman Catholic Church, not because they are “protesting” other “Protestant” religions.

Jimmy,

A. I try to be honest all the time.
B. The term Protestant did come out of a protest movement, BUT, that was 400 years ago.
C. I don’t know a single Protestant church that defines itself in opposition to the Catholic Church. To be really honest, the CC really isn’t on the radar of most Protestants. I have seen brutal debate between Protestants–Catholicism doesn’t really come up.
D. Hence, while historically, Protestantism may have been defined by it’s opposition to the RCC, that is no longer the truth.

As an aside, I have seen various posters on here argue that we do define ourselves by our opposition to the Catholic Church. My experience as a Protestant is that that simply isn’t true. I have been both surprised and pleased to discover how much I, as an fundamentalist evangelical agree with the Catholic Church (honestly, leave out the Marianism and veneration of the Saints and I could BE Catholic without compromising anything I was taught as a child).

Sorry dude, as far as I’m concerned, the war’s over.

 

[East_Anglican]

If I quit living in the past, I will never know or have known about my one, holy Catholic and apostolic church, which comes from much history with Christ…maybe you should live in the past…
Remember…To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.

We should look at Church history through Christ. Not Christ through Church History.

 

[East_Anglican]

Yes. Many people forget that Luther was a Catholic Augustinian priestmonk. His intentions were noble. There were many abuses in the Church at that time. But sadly, pride is very powerful. Rome would not listen. And then when things spiraled out of control, Rome was compelled to a counter-reformation at Trent.

Correct.

 

[O.S.Luke]

did you know that one of the calls of the reformation was “always reforming”? that means that we don’t just take what luther says as if he’s the pope, but we are constantly trying to seek the truth.

I believe the term was ecclesia reformata semper reformanda. The search for truth is a journey and process, just as our salvation is a journey and process.

Did you know, according to Martin Luther, Infant Baptism is ok… Absolution and confessing to a priest (“a confessor”) is ok… Martin Luther believed in the “Real Presence” when referring to the Eucharist… that Martin Luther Venerated Mary…

I know all of those things you posted - they are matters of historical records. And my tradition practices infant baptism, confession and pardon, in the Real Presence, and while we don’t venerate, we certain honor and praise God for the Virgin Mary and Mother of God.

I guess I’m asking… what is your point?

 

[East_Anglican]

Protestants argue their own differences with each all the time!!!

Absolutely correct.

1, Protestants have at least three doctrines concerning communion…

2, Protestants have at least three doctrines on baptism.

Jimmy,

A. I try to be honest all the time.
B. The term Protestant did come out of a protest movement, BUT, that was 400 years ago.

But some can’t get over it.

C. I don’t know a single Protestant church that defines itself in opposition to the Catholic Church. To be really honest, the CC really isn’t on the radar of most Protestants. I have seen brutal debate between Protestants–Catholicism doesn’t really come up.
D. Hence, while historically, Protestantism may have been defined by it’s opposition to the RCC, that is no longer the truth.

Correct as a rule.

As an aside, I have seen various posters on here argue that we do define ourselves by our opposition to the Catholic Church. My experience as a Protestant is that that simply isn’t true. I have been both surprised and pleased to discover how much I, as an fundamentalist evangelical agree with the Catholic Church (honestly, leave out the Marianism and veneration of the Saints and I could BE Catholic without compromising anything I was taught as a child).

Amen.

Sorry dude, as far as I’m concerned, the war’s over.

Amen.

Of course there are some idiotic Protestants about the same as there are idiotic Roman Catholics about. If they want to live in the sixteenth century, they can.

 

[East_Anglican]

Did you know that when American Roman Catholics say ‘protestant’ they usully mena ‘Baptist’ or ‘evangelical dispy’ ?

Did you know that most protestants couldn’t care less about Martin Luther.

Did you know that where Church growth is strongest in the world in all traditions no none has heard of Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and that crowd?

 

[Lampo]

Oh yes it is.

Besides, Jesus said he would build his Church, not yours or mine.

(I will discuss this no further over lent.)

p.s

It’s 2008 not 1508.

I thought your church (Anglican) was founded by King Henry VIII in 1583.

Jesus said his Church would be “the light of the world.” He then noted that “a city set on a hill cannot be hid” (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, “I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.(Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth)

 

[Lampo]

Did you know that when American Roman Catholics say ‘protestant’ they usully mena ‘Baptist’ or ‘evangelical dispy’ ?

I’m an American Roman Catholic and when I say “Protestant” I am speaking of any denomination that is an offshoot of the Church founded by Jesus Christ - the Catholic Church.

Did you know that most protestants couldn’t care less about Martin Luther.

How do you know this?

Did you know that where Church growth is strongest in the world in all traditions no none has heard of Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and that crowd?

Source?

 

[East_Anglican]

I thought your church (Anglican) was founded by King Henry VIII in 1583.

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

The 39 Articles that Cranmer wrote were based on the Augsburg confesion.

 

[East_Anglican]

I’m an American Roman Catholic and when I say “Protestant” I am speaking of any denomination that is an offshoot of the Church founded by Jesus Christ - the Catholic Church.

There’s no point discussing with you is there?

My Church was founded by Jesus Christ as well.

How do you know this?

I’m an Anglican. A Reformed Catholic. A Protestant.

Source?

Missionaries who have been to South America.

 

[Lampo]

There’s no point discussing with you is there?

I don’t know.

My Church was founded by Jesus Christ as well.

I thought you are Anglican. I guess in a sense your statement is correct. All Christians are part of the the Catholic Church in different degrees. You are just not in full communion with Her.

I’m an Anglican. A Reformed Catholic. A Protestant.

This is how you know that most protestants couldn’t care less about Martin Luther?

Missionaries who have been to South America.

I’ll take your answer to mean just your opinion then.

 

[East_Anglican]

I thought you are Anglican. I guess in a sense your statement is correct. All Christians are part of the the Catholic Church in different degrees. You are just not in full communion with Her.

cofe.anglican.org/about/history/

This is how you know that most protestants couldn’t care less about Martin Luther?

Yes.
I haven’t heard many talk about him lately. We Anglicans prefer The Wesleys these days anyway.

I’ll take your answer to mean just your opinion then.

Feel free to do so.

 

[Lampo]

cofe.anglican.org/about/history/

I quickly read your link. How do you come to the conclusion that your church was founded by Jesus Christ?

The roots of the Church of England go back to the time of the Roman Empire when a Christian church came into existence in what was then the Roman province of Britain. The early Christian writers Tertullian and Origen mention the existence of a British church in the third century AD and in the fourth century British bishops attended a number of the great councils of the Church such as the Council of Arles in 314 and the Council of Rimini in 359. The first member of the British church whom we know by name is St Alban, who, tradition tells us, was martyred for his faith on the spot where St Albans Abbey now stands.

That was the first paragraph from your link. I didn’t see in that paragraph or any that followed where it was founded by Jesus. The Roman Empire I believe lasted until around 475 AD, correct? Maybe I’ve missed something, but from reading the link, couldn’t the church it is talking about have been founded in 475 AD?

 

[East_Anglican]

I quickly read your link. How do you come to the conclusion that your church was founded by Jesus Christ?

That was the first paragraph from your link. I didn’t see in that paragraph or any that followed where it was founded by Jesus. The Roman Empire I believe lasted until around 475 AD, correct? Maybe I’ve missed something, but from reading the link, couldn’t the church it is talking about have been founded in 475 AD?

If you believe that your Church was founded by Jesus Christ and beleive that Tertullian and Origen who wrote of the British Church were in it and that your Church were at the Council of Arles in 314 and the Council of Rimini in 359 as The British Church was, you have to conclude that it was founded by Jesus Christ. If not you have to conclude that the RC church was not founded by Jesus Christ either.

Also, 475 AD is around 1200 years before Henry VIII. Of course Henry VIII’s reform was destroyed by his daughter Bloody Mary, who liked burning protestants. Thank God for good Queen Bess.

 

[Lampo]

If you believe that your Church was founded by Jesus Christ and beleive that Tertullian and Origen who wrote of the British Church were in it and that your Church were at the Council of Arles in 314 and the Council of Rimini in 359 as The British Church was, you have to conclude that it was founded by Jesus Christ. If not you have to conclude that the RC church was not founded by Jesus Christ either.

That is a very awkwardly worded paragraph and hard for me to follow. Does your church have Apostolic Succession? We might be getting off topic here.

 

[East_Anglican]

That is a very awkwardly worded paragraph and hard for me to follow. Does your church have Apostolic Succession? We might be getting off topic here.

Christs Church has Apostolic Succesionof Which the Anglican church is a part.

 

[Claudius]

Christs Church has Apostolic Succesionof Which the Anglican church is a part.

I personally don’t see how the anglicans have apostalic succession. The Pope was very clear when he did his analysis of it. In fact, this fact is even sort of expressed in anglicanism when they pray that they are Catholic in heiratage but protestant in conscience. But at least some anglicans are trying to worship God where all other protestants have done away with worship entirely in favor of a prayer meeting.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Luther is not our authority.

Yes he is, sorry

 

[Jimmy_B]

I believe the term was ecclesia reformata semper reformanda. The search for truth is a journey and process, just as our salvation is a journey and process.

I know all of those things you posted - they are matters of historical records. And my tradition practices infant baptism, confession and pardon, in the Real Presence, and while we don’t venerate, we certain honor and praise God for the Virgin Mary and Mother of God.

I guess I’m asking… what is your point?

’
My point is, that many non-Catholic “Christians” don’t really know what they believe. They are eager to write about the Roman Catholic Church and what the Catholic Church should or should not practiced, when instead they should look at themselves and other “Protestant” religions first. If you are not a Catholic, what does it matter what Catholics believe?

For any “Protestant” to say; "we don’t believe the Catholic Church is doing it right, when it comes to this or that”, when there exist many more difference among "Protestant” religions, is simply ridicules.

Do “Protestants” ever ask their minister, “where did that belief come from?”, or “why is it that there are 36,000 other “Protestant “religions, who all have different doctrines, beliefs and rule-sets?”; “Why are they not all exactly alike?”

“Protestants” should be more concerned with their own differences than any difference they might have with the Roman Catholic Church.

If you are a Baptist for example, why aren’t you a “Born again”, a Lutheran, or a Fundamentalist Christian? They cannot all be right!

“Protestants” want to “fix” the Catholic Church and in reality, they should be fixing their own “Church”.

What is with this obsession with the Roman Catholic Church? I think it is somewhat bizarre.

I think you might want to take care of your ('Protestant") own “Church” first before you worry about ours.

You can start with Gay marriages performed by some “Christian” ministers or figure out how “Jones Town” happened”. There exist enough to keep you people busy for at least a hundred years or so, before you have to worry about Catholicism

What is up with this obsession with Catholicism and with all this anti-Catholicism?

I wouldn’t tell a football team, which had just lost a game; what was wrong with the other team’s plays or argue with the other coach. Additionally, and I wouldn’t talk about a team plays if we were not going to play that team…

 

[Righteousone]

Beautiful Jimmy, just beautifully said as the truth. If we are so wrong, why the obsession??