non-Catholic Christians - "Did You Know"?

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guanophore;3381594]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Not necessarily to the faith being incomplete but in the future they may discover more manuscripts for example. For catholics this has been true. There are doctrines catholics believe today that were unknown to earlier catholics.
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guanophore
Not “unknown” thought the fullness of their meaning may not have been understood.
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If Jesus promised His disciples that He would “guide them into all the truth” (John 16:13) then they would have know of these marian doctrines also. These would have been part of “all the truth”. The fact that they did not know these things is an indication of a false teaching.
For example. all the Apostles knew Mary, the Mother of Jesus, but of her ministry they may not have understood, since it did not manifest itself until much later.
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What “ministry” did she have after she raised Jesus?
“His disciples did not understand this at first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that this had been written of him and had been done to him.” John 12:16
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What is this verse a reference to?
Revelation is progressive, to the extent that we are able to understand.
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I thought it doctrines were progressive. I must be wrong.
 
guanophore;3381722]
Originally Posted by justasking4
I don’t think you will see protestants going the same direction as the catholic church has. I doubt you will see in protestant churches by 3508 the marian dogmas, purgatory etc. Some might embrace all these unbiblical doctrines but i don’t think all will. But who knows…
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guanophore
I agree with you. Most Protestants are separated from the Sacred Oral Tradition that produced the Scriptures, and are unable to accept the Revelation of God that ensured their existence. They do not know that the none of the Teachings of Jesus are based on the Bible, but instead, the Bible is based on Divine Revelation, which was revealed in it’s fullness in Jesus.
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I need some clarification on this. Are you saying that none of the teachings of Christ are based on the Scriptures?
" And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father." John 1:14
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The fullness of Divine Revelation is in a Person, not a book.
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I agree in part. However, does not the catholic church teach that the “book” i.e. the Scriptures are Divine Revealtion also?
 
Lampo said:
Originally Posted by justasking4
He is to be strong in Christ, he is to be an example and not a new convert would be some signs of a teacher. It would also follow that he knows the Scriptures well and has studied them.

Lampo
I’d say Pope Benedict XVI meets those standards!
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Do you think most priests you know do?
 
guanophore;3381605]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Just because an historian may have a bias does not rule out he can report history correctly.
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guanophore
Perhaps you have not studied the subject of history academically, ja4. Bias, by definition, prevents one from reporting objectively. It is the duty of the student of history to understand the bias from which each historian writes.
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All historians are biased. No human being can escape this. It is also does not necessarily follow that a biased person cannot report history objectively i.e. the facts. I and countless others can report objectively about some of the events of 911 even though we may have particular biases about these events.
History is the story of what has happened, an is told by the biased.
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True. Even though this is true, can we know true history?
 
guanophore said:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Then we couldn’t say we know what it is by now since oral teachings would not have been able to survive the centuries without corruption.

guanophore;
How is it that you can believe that the HS is powerful enough to preserve the Oral Teachings for 400 years so that you can have your NT, but then they somehow become corrupted? What happened to the HS, the He suddenly lost HIs power, after the canon was formed? 🤷
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This issue is not about the Holy Spirit but about fallen men and the demonic forces against the church. Christ never promised the church would be totally protected from these forces or that they would not be able to do damage to the church. History clearly shows that this is true. The church at times has gotten some things right and at others it has greatly erred not only in some of its doctrines but practices. I’m sure by now you know what i’m referring to. If not i can refresh your mind.
 
justasking4 said:
We know it was not the Roman Catholic church since it did not exist then.
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You are having a difficult time understanding that all of the 22 rites of the Catholic Church are united as one. Therefore, your statement above is incorrect. The Catholic Church is the Catholic Church.
 
Lampo said:
You are having a difficult time understanding that all of the 22 rites of the Catholic Church are united as one. Therefore, your statement above is incorrect. The Catholic Church is the Catholic Church.
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What are these 22 rites and what do they believe? How are they structured?
 
bengal_fan said:
did you know that one of the calls of the reformation was “always reforming”? that means that we don’t just take what luther says as if he’s the pope, but we are constantly trying to seek the truth.

also, i love the quote from luther about venerating mary that you used. it is exactly what nearly every protestant would say. mary is in heaven and that’s all we know about it so we shouldn’t make an article of faith of it.
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All I can say is AMEN! 😃
 
justasking4 said:
This issue is not about the Holy Spirit but about fallen men and the demonic forces against the church. Christ never promised the church would be totally protected from these forces or that they would not be able to do damage to the church. History clearly shows that this is true. The church at times has gotten some things right and at others it has greatly erred not only in some of its doctrines but practices. I’m sure by now you know what i’m referring to. If not i can refresh your mind.
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The Catholic Church, “The Church” has never gotten doctrine or teaching wrong. Some ecclesiastical practices and rituals have been superseded or improved and modernized but the teachings have never been wrong nor have changed. The Church never compromises its teaching for the sake of unity - which is why the Church condemned Luther and let the Protestant rebellion break away rather than cave into pressure and extortion to change its faith and teachings to suit one man’s private interpretation.

As a fallable man who has walked this earth less than 65 years (being generous) what specific doctrines do you judge that the 2,000 year old Church had gotten wrong?

James
 
submittedjoy said:
Amen… Christ is the author and the finisher of our Faith! 🙂 {Hebrews 12:2}:clapping:
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We must not live in the past, we must live in the present and new is good :yup:{Isa. 42: 7-9} but… we must not forget the old ways either… {Jer. 6:16} :bible1:🙂
 
Mickey said:
There is a great worship of the Holy Trinity and honor of Our Lady in the Holy Orthodox Church. But the dogma of IC is an innovation and it does not matter how many capital letters you use.
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Mary was a sinner like the rest of us and acknowledged that she was in need of a saviour. {“And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Luke 1:46-47}
 
submittedjoy said:
Mary was a sinner like the rest of us and acknowledged that she was in need of a saviour. {“And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Luke 1:46-47}
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Have you ever heard of absolutes?

Well here’s one for you…You are absolutely wrong in saying that Mary, Theotokos “was a sinner like the rest of us”!

And that’s all I’m going to say to you. CAF has their eye on me because they know I have very little patience and tolerance for your kind. God rebuke you for the things you imply.

Vade retro satana!
 
Don’t bother CAF mods…I’m kicking myself out of this thread - permanently.
 
submittedjoy said:
Mary was a sinner like the rest of us and acknowledged that she was in need of a saviour. {“And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Luke 1:46-47}
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Incorrect. Her Saviour saved her from sin in a different way than me and you. Of course God is Mary’s Savior! She was freed from original sin in the womb (unlike us who are freed from sin outside of the womb), but needed a Savior as much as the rest of humanity.
 
CentralFLJames said:
Originally Posted by justasking4
This issue is not about the Holy Spirit but about fallen men and the demonic forces against the church. Christ never promised the church would be totally protected from these forces or that they would not be able to do damage to the church. History clearly shows that this is true. The church at times has gotten some things right and at others it has greatly erred not only in some of its doctrines but practices. I’m sure by now you know what i’m referring to. If not i can refresh your mind.

CentralFLJames
The Catholic Church, “The Church” has never gotten doctrine or teaching wrong. Some ecclesiastical practices and rituals have been superseded or improved and modernized but the teachings have never been wrong nor have changed. The Church never compromises its teaching for the sake of unity - which is why the Church condemned Luther and let the Protestant rebellion break away rather than cave into pressure and extortion to change its faith and teachings to suit one man’s private interpretation.

As a fallable man who has walked this earth less than 65 years (being generous) what specific doctrines do you judge that the 2,000 year old Church had gotten wrong?

James
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The marian doctrines and the further developement of them. Celibate leadership, Peter as pope and penance to name a few.
 
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