non-Catholic Christians - "Did You Know"?

[East_Anglican]

LOL! No I’m not EA. I’m a Cradle Catholic. We don’t even have Lutheran Church here in Sri Lanka. Just wondering about some points in the Catholic teachings that don’t go along with the Bible.

Have you been influence by The Church of Ceylon (Anglican) then?

 

[East_Anglican]

Is this phrase and the phrase (above), *“**We are made perfect through Christ” *repeated very often the East Anglican Church? I’m curious, because I thought the East Anglican Church was one of the “older” Protestant Churches and that these two phrases were from relatively recent times, I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am and provide your sources

It probably cooresponds to the Orthodox doctrine on theosis.

We are predestined to become the image of Christ.

As we grow in Christ our point of view changes therefore in him we are a new creation.

3. We ask for their intercession, this is biblical. However, it is not a “Catholic Requirement” to pray to Saints, just to believe in the Creed, and the Communion of Saints, this is how Intercession can be understood. Doesn’t the East Anglican Church believe in the Nicene or the “Apostles” Creed?

Anglicans believe in the Communion of saints. We are one Church in Heaven and on Earth. Hence with them we say or siing Holy, Holy, Holy. during the Eucharistic Liturgy. You also sing or say this because you belong to the same church which is Christ’s body.

The Creeds are excelent heresy checks supported by scripture.

4. Please provide the Bible Chapter and Verse.]

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

5. I do not understand this comment, Jewish people do not believe in Jesus Christ; however, we, (all Christians) do share the same God in Heaven with our Jewish friends, the God Moses and Abraham. Please explain this comment.

My understanding is that Sheol corresponds to Hades and that the belief in Gehhenna (Hell) came later.

Thank you.

I really didn’t want to get in an argument like this over Lent but I felt some posts demanded a response.

Some here are really making me think and pray about stuff.

So thanks to you.

 

[LutheranDK]

Got to love Lutherans. They construct a theory on what they want to believe then go in after the fact and toss out the bible books that does not support their theory.

Do you think the Holy Spirit sat around for 1500 years waiting for Luther to come on the scene to explain to all the preceding generations that they had it wrong?

Can you show us even in Lutheran scripture where it says Luther and King James are the Messiah or the new teachers of truth?

James

Got to love Papists. They regard books that are filled, to the point of overflowing, with errors, anachronisms, etc, just because they justify some of the Roman church’s flawed doctrines.

Your question about the Holy Spirit could also be used as anti-Christian propaganda by rabbinic Jews. Why should God wait 2000 years before sending the Messiah?
That line of reasoning is null and void.

And to your last part:
As it has been said: No, I cannot. For they are neither. There is only ONE Lord - Yeshua HaMashiach - not the pope, or councils, who have so often contradicted themselves.

 

[abcd]

I’m considered a Protestant but I’m wondering if you have a mouse in you pocket with that “we”.
Let me borrow that mouse. "We say we follow scripture and not men. that goes directly against scripture as we are to obey the command of the apostles as well as those above us in the Church. Does the word shepherd have no meaning. We say we follow the direction of the Holy Spirit and yet within the Protestants, there is no agreement. We say, the Lord’s Supper is merely a memorial but accuse our Catholic brethren of being ceremonial. We say we are more like the early Church but we are not willing to live as such. We preach directly against the Catholic and spread lies about them from our pulpits. We (Protestants) allow the layman to vote in the pastors like a popularity contest. We allow any who will to teach our Sunday Schools and even vote on that. We allow so called deacons to fire the pastor even though they are under him. We have no true government. We pick and choose how we will believe without spiritual guidance from those God ordained. We come dangerously close to worshipping the Bible after we individually decide what it means.
You can have your mouse back. I’ll ask Batman and Robin if I can be Alfred.

Cath- I have my doubts that you are not a Catholic…

 

[LutheranDK]

1: Incorrect. The Council of Rome in 382AD decided which books were inspired and to be included in the Bible - 46 OT books and 27 NT books. It was that way for 1,100 years! Luther removed 7 books from the OT on his own authority because they didn’t fit his theology. There were two Canons that the Jews used at the time of Jesus- the Palestinian Canon and the Alexandrian Canon (or the Septuagint.) Jesus used the Septuagint, which is the same one in Catholic Bibles today - 46 OT books. Your Protestant Bible has the same number of OT books the current Jewish Bible does today. The Jews decided this canon in the year 90AD at the Council of Jamnia. At this same Council, they declared the NT to be false. The same NT that is in your Protestant Bible today. If you believe the Council of Jamnia to be authoritative in deciding the Canon of Scripture, you must throw out the NT then. Protestants who reject the Catholic Bible are following a Jewish council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the NT.

2: How do you determine a “true Christian?” Are you a “true Christian?”

I, as Luther, do not accept the rulings of popes and councils who have so often contradicted themselves, as infallible.
The Apocrypha can be useful, yes, but they are not canonical, because they are filled with errors and anachronisms. So if they WERE canonical, the Word of God would be erronous.
Secondly: The Apocrypha were never, to my knowledge, part of Jewish canon. I do not accept the authority of the Jamnia council - neither do I have to in order to reject the Apocrypha as canon.

And, to your second question, “a true Christian” is hard to tell. Only God, ultimately, knows the answer. I CAN tell, however, if someone’s views are unbiblical → not Christian.

 

[abcd]

I’ve heard purgatory explained this way once:

1. Are you perfect now?
2. Will you be perfect when/if you make it to Heaven?
3. If you answered no to question #1 and yes to question #2, what about you changed? How did you become perfect?

Catholics give a name to the “change” - purgatory.

In Gods sight I am perfect now because of Christ. God looks at the sacrifice of Christ for my justification not at my perfection or lack of it. I can never be perfect enough to satisfy God but Jesus was and He is my perfection

 

[LutheranDK]

I will not defend ANY religion that ADDS works to faith alone in Jesus Christ!

The Lutheran religion is just that–religion! It is more religion than God, more ritualistic tradition than truth. Every false religion on the planet is cloaked with some degree of truth. Too many sincere people have churchianity without Christianity. I definitely include the Lutheran religion here. The average person today is utterly confused concerning what the truth really is. Baptism is a prime example. The Bible clearly teaches that baptism is NOT a sacrament (i.e., necessary for one’s salvation). John 4:2 informs us that Jesus did not baptize, the disciples did. 1st Corinthians 1:17 clearly teaches that Paul did NOT come to baptize anybody, but he did come to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m now going to share with you a few teachings from the “Small Catechism of Martin Luther” featured on many Lutheran church websites. Of course, these writings are authored by Martin Luther himself. I had always heard that Martin Luther became a believer after reading that “the just shall live by faith;” however, I simply have to question the genuine salvation of any man who believed and taught baptismal regeneration.

So you reject Scripture… It’s as simple as that.
Baptism is the sign of the new covenant, just as circumsition was the sign of the old.
If a man was not circumsized, he had no part in the covenant of God’s people, or the promise given to them. As baptism is the sign of the new covenant, the same would seem to apply.
I have written a rather lenghty article on this subject on the website of Jews for Jesus, but I am as of yet unable to find it :S

Finally: Am I saying that people who are not baptized cannot be saved?
NO!
I am sayíng that God has bound US to the Sacraments, not Himself.

 

[mangy_dog]

did you know that one of the calls of the reformation was “always reforming”? that means that we don’t just take what luther says as if he’s the pope, but we are constantly trying to seek the truth.

also, i love the quote from luther about venerating mary that you used. it is exactly what nearly every protestant would say. mary is in heaven and that’s all we know about it so we shouldn’t make an article of faith of it.

And this is what is so “in-constant” about protestantism. Being constantly in flux, always changing from pastor to pastor, church to church. Can’t get two protestant ministers to agree on anything except that they’re not catholic. Anything but catholic.

Martin Luther would probably be ashamed of the turn that the so called “reformation” has taken thru the years to present day. A real tower of babel.
Thankfully, the Catholic church is still standing and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[East_Anglican]

And this is what is so “in-constant” about protestantism. Being constantly in flux, always changing from pastor to pastor, church to church. Can’t get two protestant ministers to agree on anything except that they’re not catholic. Anything but catholic.

Martin Luther would probably be ashamed of the turn that the so called “reformation” has taken thru the years to present day. A real tower of babel.
Thankfully, the Catholic church is still standing and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

No it let it’s own gates be open for unbiblical doctrines like Purgatory, indulgencies, Papal Infalibility etc. etc.

OK So some prrotestants have a few unbiblical doctrines of their own, but if The Apostle Paul didn’t have it all worked out (We know in part and prophecy in part) what gives you the idea that you’ve got it all worked out?

 

[Tomster]

No.
Holy Orthodox does not recognize strange definitions that attempt to scientifically explain a glorious mystery. Transubstantiation is alien to us. Consubstantiation is alien to us. Scripture tells us it is the Body and Blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. That is good enough for us. Period.

Understand?

I think East Anglican would disagree with you on that one.

 

[mangy_dog]

No it let it’s own gates be open for unbiblical doctrines like Purgatory, indulgencies, Papal Infalibility etc. etc.

OK So some prrotestants have a few unbiblical doctrines of their own, but if The Apostle Paul didn’t have it all worked out (We know in part and prophecy in part) what gives you the idea that you’ve got it all worked out?

The Catholic church is the one, true church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as its first Pope - 263 popes later to “de Gloria de Olivae” Pope Benedict XVI.

The apostles were catholics. Consistency to the centuries, and the gates of hell have not nor will ever prevail against it.

You probably just need to come home and stop throwing rocks at it lest the “rock” falls on you.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[East_Anglican]

I think East Anglican would disagree with you on that one.

You think wrong. The gospel writers called it bread because it is and Jesus called it his body because it is.

Words like Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation are alien to Orthodoxy. They are not alien to me because I’m an Anglican.

Even then, Consubstatiation is not a word we often use.

 

[East_Anglican]

The Catholic church is the one, true church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as its first Pope - 263 popes later to “de Gloria de Olivae” Pope Benedict XVI.

The apostles were catholics. Consistency to the centuries, and the gates of hell have not nor will ever prevail against it.

You probably just need to come home and stop throwing rocks at it lest the “rock” falls on you.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

The One True Church originally did not believe in Purgatory or indulgencies and The One True Church would never conduct masses for the Nazi Party. The whole idea of Peter, paul and the apostles going arond Judea in Roman costume is bizarre. (OK we do that too.)

 

[Tomster]

No it let it’s own gates be open for unbiblical doctrines like Purgatory, indulgencies, Papal Infalibility etc. etc.

OK So some prrotestants have a few unbiblical doctrines of their own, but if The Apostle Paul didn’t have it all worked out (We know in part and prophecy in part) what gives you the idea that you’ve got it all worked out?

Would you care to list the few unbiblical doctrines some protestants adhere to?

 

[East_Anglican]

Would you care to list the few unbiblical doctrines some protestants adhere to?

Could this server handle it?

The differance is, we don’t think we are infallable and we don’t think our leaders are infallable either. (Well most of us anyway.)

 

[Tomster]

You think wrong. The gospel writers called it bread because it is and Jesus called it his body because it is.

Words like Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation are alien to Orthodoxy. They are not alien to me because I’m an Anglican.

Even then, Consubstatiation is not a word we often use.

1. Jesus called it His Body. If it is His Body, then it is worthy of adoration. Catholics do not adore mere bread. Bread was not offered on the Cross.
2. Maybe you should explain why the words Transubstantiation and Consubstantiatiation are alien to Orthodoxy and not to Anglicans.
3. It seems to me that you have using the word Consubstantiation often at the bottom of each of your posts. Why is that?

 

[Tomster]

Could this server handle it?

The differance is, we don’t think we are infallable and we don’t think our leaders are infallable either. (Well most of us anyway.)

Therefore you are admitting there is no unity in belief within Protestantism. Is this correct?

 

[mangy_dog]

The One True Church originally did not believe in Purgatory or indulgencies and The One True Church would never conduct masses for the Nazi Party. The whole idea of Peter, paul and the apostles going arond Judea in Roman costume is bizarre. (OK we do that too.)

You seem like a smart individual. I’m sure you’ve been told about the biblical references for purgatory. I’m sure you’ve heard of Sacred Tradition, I’m sure you’ve heard of Divine Revelation. The points you make (or imply) are moot.

The “veil:” of your protestant thinking does not allow you to get past your own rebellion. For you and others like you I pray.

Prophecy continues to unfold in our time and…in due time God will reveal the truth to all. That may come in the form of a Warning, a Miracle or something else. But, have you no doubt - it will come.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[East_Anglican]

1. Jesus called it His Body. If it is His Body, then it is worthy of adoration. Catholics do not adore mere bread. Bread was not offered on the Cross.

Does The Bible tell us to adore it?

No.

There is no evidence the early Church adored the sacrament. Yes it is The body of Christ but it is something to be recieved in reverance not something to adore and worship.

1. Maybe you should explain why the words Transubstantiation and Consubstantiatiation are alien to Orthodoxy and not to Anglicans.

Transubsatantiation hadn’t been invented by The RC Church prior to the 1070 split.

1. It seems to me that you have using the word Consubstantiation often at the bottom of each of your posts. Why is that?

Because I got fed up of people here telling me we believe it is merely symbolic.

 

[East_Anglican]

Therefore you are admitting there is no unity in belief within Protestantism. Is this correct?

No.

We agree on a lot of things.

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.