non-Catholic Christians - "Did You Know"?

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Interesting speculation. However, it still is true that Jesus did not in every case tell someone who He forgave to sin no more. We can only really go by what was written.

I agree. We should do what we can to avoid sin at all costs.
Where does it state in scripture (chapter and verse) that we should keep in mind that even nature teaches us? You just thrice contradicted yourself by trying to teach us that only scripture teaches while appealing to nature as a teacher and while stating that we can only go by what is written. :eek:

Come on, admit it. You have struck out every single time you have stood up to bat with the weak position of “sola scriptura”. It’s time to admit that you are wrong and start accepting that a bad understanding is not only going to get you safe on base but it is actually irresponsible and a sin to teach a false doctrine of man that has no basis in scripture nor in tradition.

James
 
I want to know what “traditions” were after the apostles died
Start with the :
  • Apostolic Teachings and Constitutions.
  • Then goto the Apostolic Fathers in the Ante_Nicene section(St. Igantius, Clement of Rome, Polycarp)
  • The seven Ecumenical Counsils
  • Eusebius and Jermone
  • Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian
  • A good amount of the early Homilys which helps interperate scripture. There are many Early homilys from St. John Chrysostom and St. Augustine which will help you use Apostolic Tradition to help interperate scripture more soundly.
  • Although I could suggest just reading ALL of the Ante-Nicene Fathers since it contains all of these except for Eusebius(which is in the Post-Nicene section). However it is around 10 long books which is alot of reading. Books like St. Iraeneus Heresies can be hard to get through because he talks so much about pagan and gnostic heresies which is for the duration of nearly the whole book.
 
Now you are just being insincere and obstinate. See other’s comments since we have answered this question for you repetitively over the last 2 years.

James
“…each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.” 1 Cor 7:7 👍

:dancing:
Where does it state in scripture (chapter and verse) that we should keep in mind that even nature teaches us?
1 Cor 11:13-15
14 Does not **nature itself teach **you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering."

Rom 1:19-20
20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made."
You just thrice contradicted yourself by trying to teach us that only scripture teaches while appealing to nature as a teacher and while stating that we can only go by what is written. :eek:
Nothing like a little inconsistency for good entertainment! 👍
It’s time to admit that you are wrong and start accepting that a bad understanding is not only going to get you safe on base but it is actually irresponsible and a sin to teach a false doctrine of man that has no basis in scripture nor in tradition.

James
I don’t think he can do this. If he did, he would have to become catholic :eek: or atheist.
 
“…each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.” 1 Cor 7:7 👍

:dancing:

1 Cor 11:13-15
14 Does not **nature itself teach **you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering."

Rom 1:19-20
20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made."

Nothing like a little inconsistency for good entertainment! 👍

I don’t think he can do this. If he did, he would have to become catholic :eek: or atheist.
Unfortunately the way this posting system propagated a posting quote error it makes it look like Jimmy B said these things when it was me responding to JA4.

But I take your meaning. You have shown yet another reason why Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone) is utterly fallable and deficient and non-scriptural itself. Not only do we have scripture itself telling us that we must follow teaching and tradition (and not just the Old Testament Scripture - since the NT did not exist at the time of the Apostles) but we have scripture telling us we should take lessons from God’s Creation and Nature too. Bravo. That pretty much completely takes the “Sola” out of Sola Scriptura and leave JA4 without a horse to whip and ride in the direction he wants to drive it.

How about it JA4 - are you going to finally admit your entire basis for scriptural understanding has been in error all these years and convert to the one true faith - CATHOLICISM?

James
 
guanophore;3516866]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Where in Scripture is it mentioned that fire purifies the soul?
guanophore
Fire is a symbol of many things, one of them being the sufferings from persecution.
I agree but i can’t find a verse that specifically states that fire is used specifically to “purify” a soul from sin.
guanophore
1 Peter 1:6-7
6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while you may have to suffer various trials, 7 so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold which though perishable is tested by fire, may redound to praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 3:13-15
the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
I have understood you to say that this passage refers to “material” goods that one gives to the Kingdom, but this is not what the Apostle meant.
You misunderstand then what i meant. Paul is speaking metaphorically not literally.
The “work” is the work of the Kingdom, and the “foundation” is the apostles and prophets. These are Sacred Works “that God has prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
Why would God reward material things?
Not sure what you mean here on your last comment. Can you clairify?
His Kingdom is not of this world.
Do you agree that His kingdom is “infiltrating” this world?
 
Jimmy B;3517757]Where does it state in scripture (chapter and verse) that we should keep in mind that even nature teaches us?
Its found in I Corinthians 11:14 where it says:
Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him,
You just thrice contradicted yourself by trying to teach us that only scripture teaches while appealing to nature as a teacher and while stating that we can only go by what is written. :eek:
I think you misunderstand what i have said. Scripture does teach us when we read and study the scriptures on our own we can say i learned something by what i read. In sense it was the scriptures that taught this. Its like a figure of speech…
Secondly i don’t ever recall claiming that only Scripture teaches us. I know Christ gave the church pastor-teachers for example who of to teach the ways of Christ.
When it comes to understanding what Jesus and His apostles taught we can only go by what they wrote since that is all know of what they did and taught. If we were living while they were alive and had personal access to them then we could listen to them teach orally but we can’t now since they are dead.
Come on, admit it. You have struck out every single time you have stood up to bat with the weak position of “sola scriptura”.
If Sola Scriptura is so weak that means catholic traditions etc are weaker still. I have shown in many cases that to believe much of what your church teaches will force you to depend on specualtions. You can search the scriptures high and low for the supposed assumption of Mary for example and not find one word in scripture that supports it. In fact you may also know it was unknown for centuries and catholic scholars even admit that there is no foundation for it in the inspired-inerrant Word of God.
It’s time to admit that you are wrong and start accepting that a bad understanding is not only going to get you safe on base but it is actually irresponsible and a sin to teach a false doctrine of man that has no basis in scripture nor in tradition.
Then are you willing to admit this about the supposed assumption of Mary? It is has no basis in Scripture nor tradition for centuries.

For example this is what a catholic scholar says about it:
The Roman Catholic writer Eamon Duffy concedes that, ‘there is, clearly, no historical evidence whatever for it …’ (Eamon Duffy, What Catholics Believe About Mary (London: Catholic Truth Society, 1989), p. 17). For centuries in the early Church there is complete silence regarding Mary’s end. The first mention of it is by Epiphanius in 377 A.D. and he specifically states that no one knows what actually happened to Mary.

Also the idea of the assumption of Mary was considered a heresy by a pope. In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation.

As a Sola Scripturist i don’t run into these kinds of things that you and others who reject the Scriptures as the final authority and rely on the speculations of men. You either end up contradicting the scriptures or yourselves… 🤷
 
I agree but i can’t find a verse that specifically states that fire is used specifically to “purify” a soul from sin.
I think this is because you have interpreted this passage with a secular mentality:

1 Cor 3:12-15
12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw - 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

The Apostle is not speaking here about “material” things, but soul work. Matters of faith.
You misunderstand then what i meant. Paul is speaking metaphorically not literally.

I am inclined to agree. I am sure that God need not use a literal fire to purify people, but the metaphor is found throughout the Bible.

Mal 3:2-3
2 But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears?

"For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap; 3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
justasking4;3519644:
Do you agree that His kingdom is “infiltrating” this world?
I thought your whole point on this forum was to prove that the world had infiltrated the Catholic Church? Are you changing horses midstream?
 
When it comes to understanding what Jesus and His apostles taught we can only go by what they wrote since that is all know of what they did and taught. If we were living while they were alive and had personal access to them then we could listen to them teach orally but we can’t now since they are dead.
Sadly this is true for Sola Scripturas, but not so for those of the Apostolic faiths. We have received and preserved the Sacred Teachings as we were commanded, and we have a living tradition that enables us to hear their teachings loud and clear in the present, though they have gone on to their heavenly reward.
Code:
If Sola Scriptura is so weak that means catholic traditions etc are weaker still. I have shown in many cases that to believe much of what your church teaches will force you to depend on specualtions.
Not so, since they are not based in the Scripture, but in the Teachings of Jesus. When you use terms such as “forced you” in matters of faith, you speak as one who has been abused by authority figures. The authority appointed by Christ does not abuse power the way the world does. We are shown the truth, and we can choose to accept or reject it. We can depend on Jesus, who is not a speculation! 👍
You can search the scriptures high and low for the supposed assumption of Mary for example and not find one word in scripture that supports it. In fact you may also know it was unknown for centuries and catholic scholars even admit that there is no foundation for it in the inspired-inerrant Word of God.
Well, we see it differently! 👍 It is one of those pearls…
Then are you willing to admit this about the supposed assumption of Mary? It is has no basis in Scripture nor tradition for centuries.
No, we can see the basis all the way back to Gen 3:15 and forward. I can accept that you don’t see it, though.
For example this is what a catholic scholar says about it:
The Roman Catholic writer Eamon Duffy concedes that, ‘there is, clearly, no historical evidence whatever for it …’ (Eamon Duffy, What Catholics Believe About Mary (London: Catholic Truth Society, 1989), p. 17). For centuries in the early Church there is complete silence regarding Mary’s end. The first mention of it is by Epiphanius in 377 A.D. and he specifically states that no one knows what actually happened to Mary.
I am surprised that this would concern you, since this date is even earlier than the date the NT canon was closed. Should we say that the NT is inaccurate, since it was not defined sooner?
Code:
Also the idea of the assumption of Mary was considered a heresy by a pope. In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation.
No, ja4. the misteps of a couple unenlighted individuals does not condemn the early church, any more than Judas going astray makes the Teaching of Jesus invalid.
As a Sola Scripturist i don’t run into these kinds of things that you and others who reject the Scriptures as the final authority and rely on the speculations of men. You either end up contradicting the scriptures or yourselves… 🤷
We could not “reject” something that was never posessed, ja4. The Holy Writings were never intended to be the “final authority.” If that were the case, Jesus would not have founded a Church, and put the Apostles in a position of authority. Nothing in the teachng of the Church contradicts the Holy Writings because they both proceed from the same Source.
 
For example this is what a catholic scholar says about it:
The Roman Catholic writer Eamon Duffy concedes that, ‘there is, clearly, no historical evidence whatever for it …’ (Eamon Duffy, What Catholics Believe About Mary (London: Catholic Truth Society, 1989), p. 17). For centuries in the early Church there is complete silence regarding Mary’s end. The first mention of it is by Epiphanius in 377 A.D. and he specifically states that no one knows what actually happened to Mary.

Also the idea of the assumption of Mary was considered a heresy by a pope. In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation.
You can’t have your cake and eat it to. Either you accept the pope as an authority or you reject the pope as an authority.

So which is the case JA4? Do you only accept the authority and teaching of the pope when one pope’s ruling appears to contradict a Church doctrine that you do not personally support but then reject a pope’s authority and teaching when he teaches something contrary to what you believe? Or are you admitting that the pope has authority and we all should be listening to him?

James
 
I am a new member and have enjoyed reading this thread. I am a confirmed Methodist, but do not attend church regularly. My husband of three months is Catholic, coming from a large, traditional family. My problem is this: I love God, I read the Bible and I love learning more about Him in whatever way I can. By learning about different Christian faiths, I have come to the conclusion that Man has far too often come between himself and God. When I say this, I mean that man-made “religion,” it’s political structure, etc, often comes off as judgemental and a deterrent to people seeking God. God has many rules and expectations for his flock, but many of the rules, doctrine, etc., were developed by MAN. Man, who is human and, therefore, subject to cultural prejudices and imperfections. I believe God loves us all as His children, demands that we follow the ten commandments, and love one another and Himself. I find it very difficult to adhere to doctrine that, I believe, was developed by self-serving men in order to preserve their place in the world and the church and to retain their superiority over women. Let’s face it- at the time that much of the current doctrine was being formed, women were little more than chattal and considered incapable of higher thought, as were men and women of other cultures. How can an educated person justify following such doctrine without question? I do not question God’s Word, only the way some have chosen to interpet it. Is this wrong?
 
guanophore;3519848]
Originally Posted by justasking4
I agree but i can’t find a verse that specifically states that fire is used specifically to “purify” a soul from sin.
guanophore
I think this is because you have interpreted this passage with a secular mentality:
1 Cor 3:12-15
12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw - 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
The Apostle is not speaking here about “material” things, but soul work. Matters of faith.
Huh? What is the context of 12-15? Why is Paul’ point? The answer can be found in verse 10. He is referring to himself as a wise builder that builds on Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with the idea of a purgatory by which a catholic is purified by fire for sins.
justasking4;3519644] You misunderstand then what i meant. Paul is speaking metaphorically not literally.
guanophore
I am inclined to agree. I am sure that God need not use a literal fire to purify people, but the metaphor is found throughout the Bible.
What is not found in the scriptures is this idea of purgatory. You don’t find this idea from the catechism i.e. “1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.”
This is the teachings of men.
guanophore
Mal 3:2-3
2 But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears?
"For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap; 3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
Again this has nothing to do with fire purifying a person from sins. Notice the context of the passage also.

You claim to have gone to a protestant seminary. Have you ever discussed any of the catholic doctrines and practices that you now embrace with some of the professors there? If so, what did they think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Do you agree that His kingdom is “infiltrating” this world?
guanophore
I thought your whole point on this forum was to prove that the world had infiltrated the Catholic Church? Are you changing horses midstream?
It is true that the catholic church has been infiltrated by worldly and pagan ideas in its doctrines and practices. That has been demonstrated in a number of ways.
 
CentralFLJames;3519988]
Originally Posted by justasking4
For example this is what a catholic scholar says about it:
The Roman Catholic writer Eamon Duffy concedes that, ‘there is, clearly, no historical evidence whatever for it …’ (Eamon Duffy, What Catholics Believe About Mary (London: Catholic Truth Society, 1989), p. 17). For centuries in the early Church there is complete silence regarding Mary’s end. The first mention of it is by Epiphanius in 377 A.D. and he specifically states that no one knows what actually happened to Mary.
Also the idea of the assumption of Mary was considered a heresy by a pope. In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation.
CentralFLJames
You can’t have your cake and eat it to. Either you accept the pope as an authority or you reject the pope as an authority.
So which is the case JA4? Do you only accept the authority and teaching of the pope when one pope’s ruling appears to contradict a Church doctrine that you do not personally support but then reject a pope’s authority and teaching when he teaches something contrary to what you believe? Or are you admitting that the pope has authority and we all should be listening to him?
This is your problem not mine. Here you have 2 popes essentially saying different things about the same thing. One pope condemns this and another makes a dogma of it. Who is right? 🤷
 
\guanophore;3519869]
Originally Posted by justasking4
When it comes to understanding what Jesus and His apostles taught we can only go by what they wrote since that is all know of what they did and taught. If we were living while they were alive and had personal access to them then we could listen to them teach orally but we can’t now since they are dead.

\guanophore;
Sadly this is true for Sola Scripturas, but not so for those of the Apostolic faiths. We have received and preserved the Sacred Teachings as we were commanded, and we have a living tradition that enables us to hear their teachings loud and clear in the present, though they have gone on to their heavenly reward.
You can assert this all you want but the fact is there is no teachings of the apostles outside the written Scriptures. I have asked you and others repeatedly for some apostles teaching outside the written Scriptures and it has never been shown to exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
If Sola Scriptura is so weak that means catholic traditions etc are weaker still. I have shown in many cases that to believe much of what your church teaches will force you to depend on specualtions.
\guanophore;
Not so, since they are not based in the Scripture, but in the Teachings of Jesus.
The only teachings of Jesus are to be found only in the written Scriptures. What you are really believing are these teachings of Jesus is the teachings of men.
guanophore;
When you use terms such as “forced you” in matters of faith, you speak as one who has been abused by authority figures.
Nonsense. What i have demonstrated is what happens when a person rejects the Scriptures as the final and ultimate authority in matters of doctrine and pracitce then that person is forced to follow the teachings and speculations of men. This is what follows.
The authority appointed by Christ does not abuse power the way the world does.
When you say this it shows that you are not that knowledgable of church history. Just a brief look at the inquisitions that went on for centuries is enough to show how absurd your statement is.
We are shown the truth, and we can choose to accept or reject it. We can depend on Jesus, who is not a speculation!
You have rejected the truth of scripture as being the final and authority when you became a catholic. You must now accept a lot of speculations and unbiblical teachings such as the marian doctrines, purgatory, praying to creatures that have died etc. If you depended on Jesus you would not accept these things.
 
You have rejected the truth of scripture as being the final and authority when you became a catholic. You must now accept a lot of speculations and unbiblical teachings such as the marian doctrines, purgatory, praying to creatures that have died etc. If you depended on Jesus you would not accept these things.
This doctrine you assert of scripture being the final authority is not even scriptural! I see no supported evidence throughout scripture reiterating that mere words in a book are to be elevated to this superficial authority you mention! If anything, this assertion is of man!

Amazing!:eek:
 
guanophore;3516866]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Notice that in this entire letter there is no mention of a priest or confessing to a priest to be forgiven.
guanophore
There is no mention of the Trinity, either, but we all believe in that, don;t we?
We believe it because there are many passages that show it. What we don’t have is one verse of a person confessing his sins to a priest and being forgiven by that priest. So trying to compare this with the Trinity is absurd.
Mark 1:4-5
5 And there went out to him all the country of Judea, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.
Acts 19:18-19
18 Many also of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices."
Where in these passages do we see the ones confessing sins being forgiven by a priest or even by the Baptist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Not so. I John 1:9 alone refutes your last sentence. Secondly there is no such exhortation in the NT where a person is to go to a priest to be forgiven.
guanophore
It’s ok, ja4. You don’t have to go to confession. The graces available through that avenue are not accessible to you, because you are faithless.
There is no grace that you have either through this means i.e. being forgiven by a priest. Any person who has repented and believed in Christ can now go directly to God through Christ to forgiven. That is the only avenue that Christ has set up for a man to be forgiven.
 
This doctrine you assert of scripture being the final authority is not even scriptural! I see no supported evidence throughout scripture reiterating that mere words in a book are to be elevated to this superficial authority you mention! If anything, this assertion is of man!

Amazing!:eek:
Do you believe the scriptures to be inspired-inerrant?
 
I am a new member and have enjoyed reading this thread. I am a confirmed Methodist, but do not attend church regularly. My husband of three months is Catholic, coming from a large, traditional family. My problem is this: …
Seabeegirl, I hope you don’t have a problem with Jesus simply because He was male nor with God simply because He is expressed as “the father”. I get the impression that you are getting wrapped around the axle so to speak on some kind of gender persecution or gender role insecurity. Please understand that Jesus never made salvation subject to gender so why are you making it a case? Did someone in The Church hold you back spiritually in life because you were a female? I’d recommend you try to break that out as a perceptional bias and try to get to the root of your concern.

I also get a conflicted message here - how can one be a confirmed Methodist without practising one’s faith? Clearly you do not have a committed faith or you would be practising it. I suggest that the reason you do not have a committed faith is because you see problems in your own (confirmed) religion. I suggest you learn more about Catholicism and take your husband’s lead.

My take on the root of your concern is that you seem to share the popular attitude among non-religious that “religions” (all of them seen all together as one category) are bad because:
  1. They judge, 2) The are bureaucratic and have order, 3) they are not formed by God and are man-made, 4) “somone” other than God is trying to control people through religion.
These are all the standard complaints that are often heard from those who have a luke-warm faith and want to roll their own religion with a bible at home. These are also the complaints we get from those who are completely irreligious and just want to make an easy excuse for not coming into The Church or not wanting to bother with the effort required to be a Christian.

Also, consider that its a poor judgemental standard to lump all religions into one general category and judge them all deficient. Also consider that in the Catholic Church there is no political structure in the sense you imagine. But The Catholic Church does have a very defined hiearchy of a pope working in union with Bishops who all oversee their dioceses and parish priests. Heaven has a hiearchy and so does God’s Church - this is the structure that Jesus gave us through his apostles.

It is popular for people to naturally resent authority and structure - its seems to be “the spirit of the age” ever since the Reformation. Yet without structure and authority not even a family could live in harmony inside of marriage. And in fact this is one of the reasons why we have so many divorces since even husbands and wives want to “do their own thing” and “be their own person” and not commit to the marriage and all the responsibilities that go with it.

But what is ironic is that at least 2 of these things you mention as negatives come directly from false fundamentalist religious teaching or from a naive understanding of basic Catholic catechism. Don’t you think that it is at face value hypocritical to judge while condemning those institutions that you imagine judge?

Let me just say - The (Catholic) Church does not judge per say. The Church teaches and gives guidelines and instruction for living according to objective truths taught by Jesus and revealed by the Holy Spirit. If it more often the case that people judge themselves as being in violation of teaching - this is one’s own inner conscience. And unless one is over scrupulous (a disorder) one should listen to one’s conscience and take it as a sign of problems needing remedy (usually confession and penance).

As for “teachings of men” - well everyone of the apostles were “men” (people, not God). What is wrong with that? What you are parroting here is standard Protestant paranoia about not believing anything that The Catholic church teaches while believing the heresy that Luther and the other reformers teach (who happen to somehow be exempt from being “men” and are seen as new apostles :rolleyes: ). Sigh… If you can not see the absurdity of this and the blatant mind control “of men” at work in Luther’s heretical teaching then I can’t help you.

My advise is to consider that our time here on earth is very very short compared to eternity. In a sense nothing matters on this earth other than working as hard as we can to be a good person, loving each other and loving God. All that implies not sinning and following Jesus commandments and teachings. Pray on that and see if God does not open your heart to join your husband to come into the one true apostolic faith that has all 7 sacraments and valid priestly order - The Catholic Church. To be a very good Catholic is as easy as praying daily, going to mass each Sunday and receiving the Eucharist, living a christian lifestyle (charity, love, etc.) and going to confession when one sins and repenting. But what you will find happens is that God will pull you into a deeper and deeper participation and you will be called to service in some way since Jesus really does call us all, both male and female, to be holy and as saints.

By the way, God does not call us to accept things without question since the scriptures themselves were full of questions by Jesus’ own disciples. The Church is here to help answer your questions.

God Bless,
James
 
Dear Seabeegirl (spelling),
If you want to know what the Catholic Church thinks about women, just look to Mary who is the greatest human being created. She is the Mother of God. No Protestant faith gives her the honor that she deserves as the Mother of God.
By being human and female, she provides a message for the immensely important role of salvation that women provide.
Women are God’s creation to bring love into human relations. We have women saints who are doctors of the Catholic faith. The Catholic Church is called Holy Mother Church. She is also called the Bride of Christ which makes us His Bride. We are called to be loving and women are the best examples we can look to for guidance about love. There is so much more.
 
justasking4,
I made a statement today on another thread in which I proposed the idea that a divided Christian faith is the cause of the holocaust in WW II and currently existing holocausts. A house divided is a house against itself. Individual interpretation creates spiritual narcissism and a fragmented approach to serving those in need.
Can you imagine 500 million united Christians in Germany without any guns and willing to sacrifice their lives to prevent Hitler’s rise to power? Division creates a weakened faith and actually creates a mockery of our faith that diminishes Christianity in the eyes of unbelievers
The ultimate humility would be to stop debates and unite under the Pope. What have we got to lose? If we debate sola scriptura and find meaning in this then we do not live and act our faith as Jesus would want us to.
If we remain divided we assist evil in harming those who are to be cared for by a united family.
 
Originally Posted by justasking4:
Also the idea of the assumption of Mary was considered a heresy by a pope. In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation.
This is your problem not mine. Here you have 2 popes essentially saying different things about the same thing. One pope condemns this and another makes a dogma of it. Who is right? 🤷
JA4 it is clear you are here not to learn about the Catholic Faith but to attack the Catholic Church. You use every opportunity you can to slander the church with utterly false information that you are picking up from anti-Catholic web sites. I warn you that you are committing grave offenses against Jesus’ Church & you will have to make a personal accounting for this some day.

First of all you need to understand what was condemned. There was a known schism going on with the Gnostics, various splinter groups & dissenters from the 451 Council of Chalcedon.

What we know is that there was in the 3rd or 4th century a writing called De Transitu Virginis Mariae Liber. This writing probably came from Gnostic or Collyridian influences that give traditions about the death of Mary. This particular writing was condemned as heretical (Decretum de Libris Canonicis Ecclesiasticus et Apocryphis) by what is attributed to pope Gelasius, A.D. 494. Note that it was the heretical source of the writing itself and the writing that was the principal issue that was condemned. This was not a general condemnation of the principals of the Marian doctrines The Church teaches today.

Until I can get other references here is some more insight that might be useful to learning the truth of what really happened if that is what you are interested in. But I don’t think you are interested in anything but to slander The Catholic Church at every opportunity that you can.
Fractured Fairytales:
Orignal Material Here:
Many variations on this basic story have been found, preserved in various languages—Armenian, Georgian, Greek, Syriac, Coptic, Slavonic and Latin—all written sometime between the years 400 and 750 A.D.

Together they form a small library of fractured fairytales—with colorful characters, bloated dialogue, dramatic fight scenes, magical appearances, implausible plot twists, strange religious ideas, and fanciful recastings of biblical history.

The sheer number and the dizzying diversity has made it nearly impossible for scholars to sort out the traditions and figure out where they all came from.

**They do seem to agree with early Church authorities that most of these tales were written by heretical splinter groups—perhaps the gnostics, or dissenters from the 451 Council of Chalcedon. **
The legends no doubt satisfied a popular hunger for details about Mary’s death. **But Church teachers never seemed too comfortable with them. **

It didn’t take long for the Latin translation of the legend to land on the sixth–century decree of heretical works attributed to Pope Gelasius I.

And some of the earliest homilies we have on Mary’s Assumption are at pains to put distance between themselves and the legend–writers.

“Although those who were present described her end truthfully. . .mischievous heretics later corrupted their accounts,” said John of Thessalonica in a homily delivered on August 15 sometime between the years 610 and 649.

Sometimes they sprinkled their homilies with some of the more fantastic details from the legend. But telling the story was of less concern it seems than celebrating what the story means.

In these early dormition homilies we see the full flowering of centuries of Marian prayer and devotion—a faith grown strong and tall from roots thrown down deep in sacred Scripture.

All the ancient biblical images—so familiar in liturgies, and prayers and sermons over the centuries—are summoned to celebrate the translation of the one woman whom the bonds of death could not hold.

These biblical images—of Mary as the New Eve, the Beloved of the Bridegroom, the Ark of the Covenant, the Mother of God, the Queen of Heaven—remain the foundation of the Church’s Assumption Liturgy today.

In the end, though, Mary remains the mother of mystery. Even today, we don’t know what became of her mortal coil. Was she raised up like Enoch (Genesis 5:24) or Elijah (2 King 3:11)? Or did she die—as the ancient faithful and most ancient commentators believed?

Pope Pius XII deliberately left the question open, saying that she was assumed after “having completed the course of her earthly life.”

Pope John Paul II made it clear that he believes Mary, like her Son, experienced the “human drama of death.”

**However we want to think about it, it’s clear that the Church has believed from the earliest times that Mary shared in her Son’s dramatic victory—what Paul and the prophet Isaiah before him called “the swallowing up of death.” **
So put to rest any notion that The Catholic Church has refuted a doctrine of any sort - it HAS NOT and never will. To make this clear an ex-Cathedra “infallible” teaching was made on November 1, 1950, by Pope Pius XII to codify the teaching. Pope Pius declared a new dogma of the Catholic Church—a truth revealed by God to be believed by the faithful: that the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the end of her time on earth, was assumed, or taken up, into heaven.

If you can’t accept this truth then take it up with Mary and God and deal with the eternal consequences of how you slandered both The Church and Mary here. :mad:

James
 
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