non-Catholic Christians - "Did You Know"?

[ChristianRoots]

You can assert this all you want but the fact is there is no teachings of the apostles outside the written Scriptures. I have asked you and others repeatedly for some apostles teaching outside the written Scriptures and it has never been shown to exist.

 

[guanophore]

Huh? What is the context of 12-15? Why is Paul’ point? The answer can be found in verse 10. He is referring to himself as a wise builder that builds on Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with the idea of a purgatory by which a catholic is purified by fire for sins.

Paul is speaking about the work of the ministry (saving of souls) based on his particular calling to build churches. The “work” is based on his “manner of life” Acts 26:4-5

4 “My manner of life from my youth, spent from the beginning among my own nation and at Jerusalem, is known by all the Jews.”

I know this is getting onto shaky ground for you, since you don not accept Sacred Tradition, but when Paul speaks of his “manner of life” he is talking about his way of being in the world. He is an apostle and a teacher, and when he goes to his judgement, he will be judged by the manner of life he lived. He will have a heavenly reward for all the things He did that were consistent with God’s plan, and if there are any things he did or said that were not from God, then they will be burned away, and he will survive (ready for heaven) as through fire.

What is not found in the scriptures is this idea of purgatory. You don’t find this idea from the catechism i.e. “1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.”
This is the teachings of men.

Perhaps this is another one of those pearls that is not available to you? Do you not realize that nothing impure can enter heaven?

Again this has nothing to do with fire purifying a person from sins. Notice the context of the passage also.

I know that you are probably accustomed to fire representing those who are separated from God, but there are some uses of fire for the purification of believes. I agree with you that it is a metaphor.

Isa 6:6-7
Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 And he touched my mouth, and said: "Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven.

You claim to have gone to a protestant seminary. Have you ever discussed any of the catholic doctrines and practices that you now embrace with some of the professors there? If so, what did they think?

Yep, got that wall diploma to prove it! No, I did not return to the fullness of truth until many years later. I sojourned in Protestant communities for the better part of 20 years before I came home.
I don’t doubt that some of them would think that I had backslid!

It is true that the catholic church has been infiltrated by worldly and pagan ideas in its doctrines and practices. That has been demonstrated in a number of ways.

On the contrary, it was your first observation that is more accurate. The Catholic Church, especially in the West, has deliberately attempted to overtrump Pagan holidays and practices by baptizing them and making them Christian. This is the case with Christmas and Easter, which were Pagan holidays. When Christianity was de-crimminalized by Constantine, Catholics took over many of the pagan temples and made churches out of them.

This is your problem not mine. Here you have 2 popes essentially saying different things about the same thing. One pope condemns this and another makes a dogma of it. Who is right?

Both are right, although we have a broader understanding in the latter. If the popes appear to be saying different things, then it is the reader who is misunderstanding. The Teaching has not changed since the day the NT was formed. There is only ONE CHURCH, ONE BODY, ONE BAPTISM!

You can assert this all you want but the fact is there is no teachings of the apostles outside the written Scriptures. I have asked you and others repeatedly for some apostles teaching outside the written Scriptures and it has never been shown to exist.

Those pearls, you know? Gotta be careful where they are thown. I have read in your posts and believe that you reject parts of the Apostles Creed. Do you reject the whole thing outright? I guess I always assumed that you accepted the parts you could find in scripture, and reject the parts you can’t “see” there. Catholics have no investment whatever as you do in separating the writings of the Apostles from their other teachings. Catholics consider them to be one whole and indivisble deposit of faith. Therefore, we would not seek to be divisive by trying to find something in the Apostles Creed, for example, that is “not in scripture”.

2 Thess 2:14-15
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

No distinctions are made between that which arrived by letter, and that which arrived by word of mouth.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Unfortunately the way this posting system propagated a posting quote error it makes it look like Jimmy B said these things when it was me responding to JA4.

Thank you James…

You are one of my Roman Catholic buddies…don’t people here realize yet… that I don’t mess with my Roman Catholic buddies; just those who pretend to be Catholic and everybody else,

Peace brother

 

[guanophore]

The only teachings of Jesus are to be found only in the written Scriptures. What you are really believing are these teachings of Jesus is the teachings of men.

This is a Sola Scriptura position, which itself is a teaching of man. It is your perogative to limit yourself to this portion of God’s revelation. Personally I think it is a mistake, and I would not give up the Divine Liturgy for anything.

When a person rejects the Scriptures as the final and ultimate authority in matters of doctrine and pracitce then that person is forced to follow the teachings and speculations of men.

That is just my point, ja4. The Scriptures were never meant to be the “final and ultimate authority”. That authority is Jesus, and He passed that authority on to His Apostles.

" And Jesus came and said to them, “**All authority **in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 **Go therefore **and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” Matt 28:18-20

The authority of Christ is not “forceful” as you characterize it. If the persons who abused their power over you were Catholic, it makes sense that you would confuse the two. But Jesus’ authority is meek and lowly. He does not force anyone to believe anything. His Church teaches the Truth, but you are not “forced” to accept any of the Teachings.

“Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matt 11:29-30

I don’t deny that there is a “yoke” and “burden”, but it is not forced. Notice Jesus says “take my yoke”. Each one chooses to be under it.

You have rejected the truth of scripture as being the final and authority when you became a catholic. You must now accept a lot of speculations and unbiblical teachings such as the marian doctrines, purgatory, praying to creatures that have died etc. If you depended on Jesus you would not accept these things.

I went to Seminary and began to study the history of the faith. I took a course in historical theology, and read the Early Fathers. That was the beginning of my journey home. I am under no compulsion to accept anything, but I recieve the yoke of Christ, and I trust that He is able to watch over His word to perform it. By the way, Catholics don’t pray to “dead creatures”. Your characterization of the Body this way is one of the parts of the Apostles Creed that you reject. All the doctrines of the Church represent our complete dependence upon Jesus.

What we don’t have is one verse of a person confessing his sins to a priest and being forgiven by that priest.

I just gave you an example yesterday, but I will put it here again.

8 But when Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, "Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, Luke 5:8

Or, do you not consider Jesus our great high priest?

Where in these passages do we see the ones confessing sins being forgiven by a priest or even by the Baptist?

Do you think Jesus did not forgive Peter?

“And there went out to him all the country of Judea, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.” Mark 1:5

"I baptize you with water for repentance, Matt 3:11

God forgives the sins. He works through people.

In James we see the elders (presbyters/priests) being called upon, and confession occurring, and in the Great Commission we see that Jesus gives His authority to forgive to the Apostles. I realize that these are very early times, and the practice of confession has developed much over time, but I don’t see how you can say that people were not confessing there sins?

There is no grace that you have either through this means i.e. being forgiven by a priest. Any person who has repented and believed in Christ can now go directly to God through Christ to forgiven. That is the only avenue that Christ has set up for a man to be forgiven.

I agree that all who repent and believe are forgiven by Christ. This is the only avenue Christ has set up. This is the avenue that Catholics use, as the priest is acting in the person of Christ.

" Any one whom you forgive, I also forgive. What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, 11 to keep Satan from gaining the advantage over us; for we are not ignorant of his designs." 2 Cor 2:10-11

The sacrament happens “in the presence of Christ”, and the priest acts “in persona Christi” (in the Person of Christ). To deny that grace flows through this is not scriptural, ja4.

“Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” James 5:14-17

It is clear that the prayer of faith saves, and that healing and forgiveness happen when sins are confessed.

 

[justasking4]

Ronald E;3520891]
justasking4,
I made a statement today on another thread in which I proposed the idea that a divided Christian faith is the cause of the holocaust in WW II and currently existing holocausts.

This statement does not follow. These holocausts are not caused by the church but by the evil forces that are at work in the world. It is caused by people who either have no fear of God or by satanic forces. Just because the church may be divided on some theological issues does not mean this the cause of these holocausts.

A house divided is a house against itself. Individual interpretation creates spiritual narcissism and a fragmented approach to serving those in need.

Not so. Everyone must do “individual interpretation” on everything they are taught and read. There is no getting around this. Secondly, there is a lot of good being done by both protestant and catholics despite the theological differences.

Can you imagine 500 million united Christians in Germany without any guns and willing to sacrifice their lives to prevent Hitler’s rise to power?

How would this have stopped Hitler? Secondly you must keep in mind that even though Christians are forgiven in Christ that does not mean we still don’t have weaknesses in the flesh. Third, what would make of the first century Christians during the time of the apostles who lived during the time of the Roman empire that was just as wicked as Hitler and we don’t see any exhortations from them to stop the Roman empire from doing its evil. Why didn’t Peter or Paul exhort these Christians to stand against Rome as you suggested Christians stand against Hitler?

Division creates a weakened faith and actually creates a mockery of our faith that diminishes Christianity in the eyes of unbelievers.

I kinda think this issue is overblown. All large institutions that have a lot of people and a complex belief system are going to have different approaches to things. Take education. Is it a mockery that there are so many different schools throughout the world?

The ultimate humility would be to stop debates and unite under the Pope. What have we got to lose?

You would have ignore a lot of evidence to this. Why is it necessary to unite under the pope anyway?

If we debate sola scriptura and find meaning in this then we do not live and act our faith as Jesus would want us to.

Not sure what you mean here. Can you clarify?

If we remain divided we assist evil in harming those who are to be cared for by a united family.

The evil that is happening is not the result of not being united. There are other sinister evil forces at work in the world that is the cause of these things.

 

[justasking4]

CentralFLJames;3520931]

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by justasking4
Also the idea of the assumption of Mary was considered a heresy by a pope. In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation.

This is your problem not mine. Here you have 2 popes essentially saying different things about the same thing. One pope condemns this and another makes a dogma of it. Who is right?

CentralFLJames
JA4 it is clear you are here not to learn about the Catholic Faith but to attack the Catholic Church.

You use every opportunity you can to slander the church with utterly false information that you are picking up from anti-Catholic web sites. I warn you that you are committing grave offenses against Jesus’ Church & you will have to make a personal accounting for this some day.

You know what I like about you and a few others of the catholic faith is that you are all passionate and believe you alone possess the truth. That helps me to understand at least where you are coming from.
Now lets talk about the details. Its in the details that we see if a claim is true or not. Bringing up facts that show the weakness of a claim or the falsehood of it is not slander. It would be slander if it was not true and a lie. In this case it is a fact that this pope did condemn this.

CentralFLJames
First of all you need to understand what was condemned. There was a known schism going on with the Gnostics, various splinter groups & dissenters from the 451 Council of Chalcedon.

What we know is that there was in the 3rd or 4th century a writing called De Transitu Virginis Mariae Liber. This writing probably came from Gnostic or Collyridian influences that give traditions about the death of Mary. This particular writing was condemned as heretical (Decretum de Libris Canonicis Ecclesiasticus et Apocryphis) by what is attributed to pope Gelasius, A.D. 494. Note that it was the heretical source of the writing itself and the writing that was the principal issue that was condemned. This was not a general condemnation of the principals of the Marian doctrines The Church teaches today.

There is no denying that the assumption of Mary is based on false teaching of a false writing that the catholic church condemned centuries ago.

CentralFLJames
Until I can get other references here is some more insight that might be useful to learning the truth of what really happened if that is what you are interested in. But I don’t think you are interested in anything but to slander The Catholic Church at every opportunity that you can.

You should be thanking me instead of using insults and threats against me. Where else can you go to defend your faith and not be insulted for it but here? Where else can you go and have so much help from your fellow catholics when you defend your faith?
The real world is lot more brutal than here.

I’m the one at a distinct disadvantage since I don’t have such assistance as you do. All I really have are the Scriptures……

 

[justasking4]

Jimmy B;3522497]
Originally Posted by CentralFLJames
Unfortunately the way this posting system propagated a posting quote error it makes it look like Jimmy B said these things when it was me responding to JA4.

Jimmy B
Thank you James…

You are one of my Roman Catholic buddies…don’t people here realize yet… that I don’t mess with my Roman Catholic buddies; just those who pretend to be Catholic and everybody else,

Peace brother
Aren’t we all buddies??? :extrahappy:

 

[CentralFLJames]

You know what I like about you and a few others of the catholic faith is that you are all passionate and believe you alone possess the truth. That helps me to understand at least where you are coming from.
Now lets talk about the details. Its in the details that we see if a claim is true or not. Bringing up facts that show the weakness of a claim or the falsehood of it is not slander. It would be slander if it was not true and a lie. In this case it is a fact that this pope did condemn this.

There is no denying that the assumption of Mary is based on false teaching of a false writing that the catholic church condemned centuries ago.

You should be thanking me instead of using insults and threats against me. Where else can you go to defend your faith and not be insulted for it but here? Where else can you go and have so much help from your fellow catholics when you defend your faith?
The real world is lot more brutal than here.

I’m the one at a distinct disadvantage since I don’t have such assistance as you do. All I really have are the Scriptures……

So now you not only want to teach the Apostolic Church what scripture means you want to teach us what our own doctrines mean and what our popes teach! What utter cheekiness.

You can make all the assertions you want but the fact remains you are making non-substantiated statements which in fact are slanderous to The Church.

Only The Catholic Church possess the full repository of Truth.

James

 

[guanophore]

You know what I like about you and a few others of the catholic faith is that you are all passionate and believe you alone possess the truth. That helps me to understand at least where you are coming from.
Now lets talk about the details. Its in the details that we see if a claim is true or not. Bringing up facts that show the weakness of a claim or the falsehood of it is not slander. It would be slander if it was not true and a lie. In this case it is a fact that this pope did condemn this.

You have misunderstood, ja4, as is your habit.

There is no denying that the assumption of Mary is based on false teaching of a false writing that the catholic church condemned centuries ago.

For you, it seems “false”. This is because you base “truth” in sola scriptura. But Jesus and the Apostles never taught this doctrine, which is a recent, novel, and modern innovation. On the contrary, the Apostles taught that Jesus was the most perfect Jew that ever lived, and that He honored His mother and father. He, like any good Son, did not want to see the body of His mother see corruption.

You should be thanking me instead of using insults and threats against me. Where else can you go to defend your faith and not be insulted for it but here? Where else can you go and have so much help from your fellow catholics when you defend your faith?
The real world is lot more brutal than here.

No, ja4, I cannot be grateful to a person who claims to be of Christ, yet bites and tears at His Body. In fact, we are insulted all day long. We are not in need of those who claim to be members of His Body to come here and insult us.

2 Tim 3:11-13
12 Indeed all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived."

You present yourself as an “evil man and an imposter, who goes from bad to worse!” Who could commend such a thing! No, in fact, I have never encountered such vicious calumny against the Body of Christ as I have found here in your posts.

I’m the one at a distinct disadvantage since I don’t have such assistance as you do. All I really have are the Scriptures……

We see that you have good company, since the evil one could use the scriptures to tempt the Christ. You are in rebellion against the authority that was appointed by Christ. Don’t get me wrong, I stretch out to you in prayer, because those who claimed to be of God wounded you mortally, and now you are blaming the Holy Bride of Christ, to which they allegedly claimed to belong. It is despicable, whatever was done to you. However, it is wrong to lay the blame at the feet of Christ. So long as you do that, you are lost.

 

[onenow1]

Hi, again ja4
Did you know ? Another who sat across the table from the Holy Trinity every day for years at each meal? Think about it? Can the three persons of the Holy Trinity be separated? Are they three separate persons or are they three inseparable persons in one GOD? Since we all know that they are distinct but not separate, then all three persons are present wherever one is.

The unity of the Trinity, implicit in scripture was decided by the Cathoic church, at Nicea I 325 AD.

Name another mother who lived with the Second Person of the Holy Trinity for 30 years?
Just imagine, Jesus taught His disciples for only 3 years, but He taught His Mother for many more.

And Mary said,
“My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and Holy is His name.” Luke 1:46-49

It’s amazing no others but the most ancient of Churches, the Cathoic and Orthodox, call Mary blessed as is written in scripture.

No Mary no Jesus. Of course ! you can say He coud have chosen someone else but the fact remains He didn’t.

Peace, OneNow1
:twocents:

 

[CentralFLJames]

You should be thanking me instead of using insults and threats against me. Where else can you go to defend your faith and not be insulted for it but here? Where else can you go and have so much help from your fellow catholics when you defend your faith?
The real world is lot more brutal than here.

I’m the one at a distinct disadvantage since I don’t have such assistance as you do. All I really have are the Scriptures……

JA4, do you fancy yourself as some sort of bozo bop/punch bag gift from God to us Catholics?


You just stand in these forums making ridiculous and provocative comments against our faith and stand there smiling waiting for a response. When we hit you with the truth you bow over then idly bounce back and simply say “nope - its not the truth yuk yuk yuk”. Yet you can’t offer anything more substantial or cogent than your own wrong headed opinion about the scriptures. You act as if your own private interpretation represents an authority on scriptures. You reek of hubris, folly, absurdity and error.

You simply “don’t get it”. Scripture belong to the Catholic Church. She wrote them and she assembled them and she teaches them. You come into our house, falsely call yourself a “Christian” and then proceed to tell The Teacher what Her texts mean and even what Her own doctrines mean? That is just naked hubris incarnate. You fundamentalist can not hijack God’s Holy Word and make it say something that it does not say. You are giving false teaching under a pretense of infallability and act like God’s Word, the Word that has been defended by The Church for 2000 years, belongs to you. How utterly absurd. Why do you come into these forums but to confuse and deceive others?

You have been utterly poisoned by the Protestant lie that scripture teaches itself. EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE is CATHOLIC - PERIOD. There is not one biblical verse that is in contradiction to Church Teaching. The Bible is OURS - it does not belong to those outside The Church and it is a blasphemy to teach the things you do. You are a false teacher who is teaching a “doctrine of man”. By the way I bet you didn’t know that the term “man” refers to the ancient Old Testament meaning of “man”. “Man” refers to the branch of humanity that came from the disordered, false, murderous and jealous descendants of Cain. It was not a term meant to be “man” in the universal sense of “all people” on the planet. We Catholics are spiritually redeemed off-springs of Seth (the murdered Abel’s replacement) redeemed through the Davidic branch by Jesus. That makes us Catholics “Sons and Daughters of God” (we do not inter-marry our truth with those outside our family). That means we Catholics are not “men” in the biblical sense of the scripture verses warning of “teaching of men”. It is not in our nature to be even capable of teaching a “doctrine of man” since we are children of God. We teach truth and we are telling you directly that you are not one of us. What you teach is a classic false “teaching of man”. So, be gone with your lies and your false teaching or come into the truth - and do so very quickly.

Either you listen to mother Church or you put yourself at eternal risk of eternal damnation by making yourself God’s enemy in serving Satan in your obstinancy, pride and severe insincerity in these forums. It’s really that simple.

James

 

[guanophore]

Aren’t we all buddies??? :extrahappy:

While I am very disheartened by Jimmy B’s prejudiced post, the prejudice and hatefulness I experience reading your posts is infinitely more painful. It is difficult to feel any affection for someone who brings such calumny against the Holy Bride of Christ. :crying:

Did the Jews who lived 75 years before Christ believe that the OT was infallible-inspired-inerrant?

I suppose that depends upon who you ask. There was no defined canon until after Christ, and some of the Jews accepted only the Torah as the Word of God, and rejected the Prophets. Jesus accepted the books of Moses, the Psalms (his prayer book) and the Prophets. We can seen in the gospels and the book of Acts the conflicts that arose over differences of opinon on the contents of the “canon”. I think every one would agree on the books of Moses, though.

 

[guanophore]

JA4, do you fancy yourself as some sort of bozo bop/punch bag gift from God to us Catholics?
http://www.backtobasicstoys.com/images/thumbs/t_5225.jpg

You just stand in these forums making ridiculous and provocative comments against our faith and stand there smiling waiting for a response. When we hit you with the truth you bow over then idly bounce back and simply say “nope - its not the truth yuk yuk yuk”. Yet you can’t offer anything more substantial or cogent than your own wrong headed opinion about the scriptures. You act as if your own private interpretation represents an authority on scriptures. You reek of hubris, folly, absurdity and error.

You simply “don’t get it”. Scripture belong to the Catholic Church. She wrote them and she assembled them and she teaches them. You come into our house, falsely call yourself a “Christian” and then proceed to tell The Teacher what Her texts mean and even what Her own doctrines mean? That is just naked hubris incarnate. You fundamentalist can not hijack God’s Holy Word and make it say something that it does not say. You are giving false teaching under a pretense of infallability and act like God’s Word, the Word that has been defended by The Church for 2000 years, belongs to you. How utterly absurd. Why do you come into these forums but to confuse and deceive others?

You have been utterly poisoned by the Protestant lie that scripture teaches itself. EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE is CATHOLIC - PERIOD. There is not one biblical verse that is in contradiction to Church Teaching. The Bible is OURS - it does not belong to those outside The Church and it is a blasphemy to teach the things you do. You are a false teacher who is teaching a “doctrine of man”. By the way I bet you didn’t know that the term “man” refers to the ancient Old Testament meaning of “man”. “Man” refers to the branch of humanity that came from the disordered, false, murderous and jealous descendants of Cain. It was not a term meant to be “man” in the universal sense of “all people” on the planet. We Catholics are spiritually redeemed off-springs of Seth (the murdered Abel’s replacement) redeemed through the Davidic branch by Jesus. That makes us Catholics “Sons and Daughters of God” (or the term “angles” in the OT Genesis vernacular). That means we Catholics are not “men” in the biblical sense of the scripture verses warning of “teaching of men”. It is not in our nature to be even capable of teaching a “doctrine of man” since we are children of God. We teach truth and we are telling you directly that you are not one of us. What you teach is a classic false “teaching of man”. So, be gone with your lies and your false teaching or come into the truth - and do so very quickly.

Either you listen to mother Church or you put yourself at eternal risk of eternal damnation by making yourself God’s enemy in serving Satan in your obstinancy, pride and severe insincerity in these forums. It’s really that simple.

James

Don’t mince words, James. Tell us what you really think.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Don’t mince words, James. Tell us what you really think.

There comes a time to shake the dust off one’s feet. This man is a committed enemy of The Church and of God and serves his own hubris.

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

There is no denying that the assumption of Mary is based on false teaching of a false writing that the catholic church condemned centuries ago.

This is like condemning all of the Bible and the entire teaching of Christ as false doctrine by asserting that since there was some commonality of concepts and ideas contained within the many pseudepigrapha books and the hundreds of other spurious and counterfeit writings that The Church itself rejected and were not included in cannon.

You offer no new arguments against Marian doctrine that have not already been soundly rebutted hundreds of years ago. So substantiate your claims or kindly stop presenting yourself as the single holder of divine truth by pontificating these absurd assertions. You are not infallible and are not above The Church, nor The Pope nor Apostolic Teaching.

James

 

[guanophore]

Bringing up facts that show the weakness of a claim or the falsehood of it is not slander. It would be slander if it was not true and a lie. In this case it is a fact that this pope did condemn this.

There is no denying that the assumption of Mary is based on false teaching of a false writing that **the catholic church condemned centuries ago. **

The real world is lot more brutal than here.

So substantiate your claims …

James

I am with James on this one. I would like to see your sources where **the catholic church condemned centuries ago. **
the teaching on the Assumption.

Do you understand that a Pope or a Church Father or Doctor can be wrong about doctrine, and that does not mean the Church is wrong?

I pray for the people that are close to you, if you are more brutal to them than you are to us. If you bear false witness against those in your life as much as you do here, God help them all!

 

[Jimmy_B]

Do you understand that a Pope or a Church Father or Doctor can be wrong about doctrine, and that does not mean the Church is wrong?

Hello guanophore,

This is an important question, because there does exist a misconception among many non-Catholics (and some Catholics), regarding “Catholic Infallibility”. Once this is understood, one realizes that it makes absolutely no sense, what so ever, to use a so-called, “Catholic source” to try to “disprove” any aspect of Catholicism; no such source exists.

In order to us a “Catholic source” to try to “disprove” Catholicism, one must cite the source out of context, of either the totality of the work of the person cited; or outside the context of the totality of Catholic teachings; or outside of the context of Catholic-Christian history and tradition.
Moreover, in order to use the Bible, which is a “Catholic source”, because the Bible is a “Catholic Book” to try to “disprove any aspect of Catholicism, one must use an incorrect translation from one of the original languages, in which it was written or to play “word games” and use semantics; or cite the Bible out of context, of the Bible itself and “demonstrate” a conflict, which does not exist, where one verse conflicts with another verse; or cite the Bible verse outside of the totality of Catholic teachings; or cite the Bible outside of the context of Catholic-Christian history and tradition.

It appears that “personal interpretation” and the errors, which can generally follow, apply, not only to the Bible but to other Catholic documents, which address Catholic doctrine and Catholic beliefs as well. All of Catholicism can be explained and supported Biblically, historically and traditionally.

In order to understand Christianity, which is Catholicism, context is everything!

Peace

 

[justasking4]

Part 1

CentralFLJames;3525329]JA4, do you fancy yourself as some sort of bozo bop/punch bag gift from God to us Catholics?
http://www.backtobasicstoys.com/images/thumbs/t_5225.jpg

Your response was not unexpected. Instead of dealing with the issues you and others at times resort of personal attacks. One thing i’m beginning to understand why there were inquisitions in the catholic church. Once a person starts personal attacks and feels justified in them its not to far to the next step of torture etc as we saw in the inquisitions. All this shows is how weak you faith is…

You just stand in these forums making ridiculous and provocative comments against our faith and stand there smiling waiting for a response. When we hit you with the truth you bow over then idly bounce back and simply say “nope - its not the truth yuk yuk yuk”. Yet you can’t offer anything more substantial or cogent than your own wrong headed opinion about the scriptures. You act as if your own private interpretation represents an authority on scriptures. You reek of hubris, folly, absurdity and error.

What you accuse me of is the very thing you are doing i.e. private interpreting. When your church has interpreted less than 20 verses infallibly you are left with your own personal and private interpretation of the rest of scripture. What this also does to you is to leave you without a way to know which if any interpretation is the correct one since your church has never infallibly interpreted them.

You simply “don’t get it”. Scripture belong to the Catholic Church. She wrote them and she assembled them and she teaches them.

Can you name one author of the Scriptures that refers to himself as a catholic?

 

[justasking4]

Part 2

You come into our house, falsely call yourself a “Christian” and then proceed to tell The Teacher what Her texts mean and even what Her own doctrines mean? That is just naked hubris incarnate.

If what you say is true then how do you respond to the many exhortations from Scripture about false teachers? We see one such warning in Acts 20:28-31:
28 “**Be on guard for yourselves **and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
29 “I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 **and from among your own selves **men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
31 “Therefore be on the alert,

This is where so many catholics fail to follow this exhortation. They fail to hold their leaders and teachers accountable to the Truth. Just reading some of the materials about Marian devotions and practices is but one example of failing this command.

You fundamentalist can not hijack God’s Holy Word and make it say something that it does not say. You are giving false teaching under a pretense of infallability and act like God’s Word, the Word that has been defended by The Church for 2000 years, belongs to you. How utterly absurd.

I don’t claim infalliblity nor does it exist among men. Secondly, your church has not defended the scriptures but has twisted them to support doctrines they do not.

Why do you come into these forums but to confuse and deceive others?

i’m here to help people to see the truth and to look closely at the claims that are being made and where they lead to.

You have been utterly poisoned by the Protestant lie that scripture teaches itself. EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE is CATHOLIC - PERIOD.

What do you mean “EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE is CATHOLIC”?

There is not one biblical verse that is in contradiction to Church Teaching.

Of course there is. One such example is the celibacy requirement to be a bishop.

The Bible is OURS - it does not belong to those outside

Nonsense. No one owns the Scriptures and has authority over them.

The Church and it is a blasphemy to teach the things you do.

I’m in good company. Jesus and His apostles were accused of the same thing.

You are a false teacher who is teaching a “doctrine of man”.

How so?

By the way I bet you didn’t know that the term “man” refers to the ancient Old Testament meaning of “man”. “Man” refers to the branch of humanity that came from the disordered, false, murderous and jealous descendants of Cain. It was not a term meant to be “man” in the universal sense of “all people” on the planet. We Catholics are spiritually redeemed off-springs of Seth (the murdered Abel’s replacement) redeemed through the Davidic branch by Jesus. That makes us Catholics “Sons and Daughters of God” (we do not inter-marry our truth with those outside our family). That means we Catholics are not “men” in the biblical sense of the scripture verses warning of “teaching of men”. It is not in our nature to be even capable of teaching a “doctrine of man” since we are children of God. We teach truth and we are telling you directly that you are not one of us. What you teach is a classic false “teaching of man”.

Your right i didn’t know about this. Is this offical catholic teaching i.e. “We Catholics are spiritually redeemed off-springs of Seth (the murdered Abel’s replacement) redeemed through the Davidic branch by Jesus”?

So, be gone with your lies and your false teaching or come into the truth - and do so very quickly.

I have never spoken a lie here but have shown what the truth looks like. In fact in many cases i have used catholic sources that refute many of the claims made by catholics.

Either you listen to mother Church or you put yourself at eternal risk of eternal damnation by making yourself God’s enemy in serving Satan in your obstinancy, pride and severe insincerity in these forums. It’s really that simple.

James

Let me exhort you to listen to the scriptures. Let them be your guide to the Truth and not the doctrines of men. By them you will know the Truth…

 

[justasking4]

Jimmy B;3526749]Hello guanophore,

This is an important question, because there does exist a misconception among many non-Catholics (and some Catholics), regarding “Catholic Infallibility”. Once this is understood, one realizes that it makes absolutely no sense, what so ever, to use a so-called, “Catholic source” to try to “disprove” any aspect of Catholicism; no such source exists.

In order to us a “Catholic source” to try to “disprove” Catholicism, one must cite the source out of context, of either the totality of the work of the person cited; or outside the context of the totality of Catholic teachings; or outside of the context of Catholic-Christian history and tradition.
Moreover, in order to use the Bible, which is a “Catholic source”, because the Bible is a “Catholic Book” to try to “disprove any aspect of Catholicism, one must use an incorrect translation from one of the original languages, in which it was written or to play “word games” and use semantics; or cite the Bible out of context, of the Bible itself and “demonstrate” a conflict, which does not exist, where one verse conflicts with another verse; or cite the Bible verse outside of the totality of Catholic teachings; or cite the Bible outside of the context of Catholic-Christian history and tradition.

It appears that “personal interpretation” and the errors, which can generally follow, apply, not only to the Bible but to other Catholic documents, which address Catholic doctrine and Catholic beliefs as well.

All of Catholicism can be explained and supported Biblically, historically and traditionally.

This is not true. The supposed assumption of Mary is a case in point. Even catholic scholars admit there is no bibilcal evidence for it. In the church does not know what happened to Mary.

In order to understand Christianity, which is Catholicism, context is everything!

Christianity is not Catholicism. Catholicism is a subset of Christianity.

Peace