Non-Catholic Christians...

[CMatt25]

On a Sunday last October (the 4th to be exact) I was in a Catholic Church in Florida. Near the end of the procession the celebrant turned to the left and walked up to a statue of Mary that was in a niche in the wall. The Priest stood there in adoration and prayer for about a minute, then retraced his steps and entered the Sanctuary. I wondered what that was all about, as there was nothing said about it nor a call to communal prayer, and it was not a Feast day of Mary. But it seemed that he was worshipping a statue (“Mary is really not there”, I wanted to tell him) and it made me somewhat uncomfortable, reminding me of movies in which pagans bow and scrape before large statues and icons of their gods during their rituals.

That is just one incident on just one occasion, but it surely is not unique. Look around your churches, count the statues of Mary, as Mother of the Redeemer, as Our Lady of Perpetual Help, etc., and the pictures of Mary as Our Lady, or Queen of Heaven, or Blessed Virgin, and on and on.

There are 20 Marian feast days in the liturgical calendar, better than one and a half every month. Some go way back, some are relatively recent, added in the last 140 years or so. If we consider Catholic Dogma, I believe that the most recent doctrines added to that list have been about Mary: The Immaculate Conception and the Assumption.

Look also at Catholic publications and websites. Big emphasis on stories and images of Mary, including some sites specifically about her. There have been Catholics on this forum who have wondered why there is not more prayer to Mary in the Mass, or advocate making her co-redemptrix. Check out the religious images and statuary in your homes; my personal experience tells me that a great number of Catholic homes have more icons of Mary than anything else, and the more devoted the Catholic, the more there seem to be, inside and out.

The questions above can be answered very easily by looking around. The idea is not a “theory” but a result of observation. The emphasis on Mary has grown and grown, in some cases obscuring God and relegating Jesus to a supporting role in some peoples’ faith life. And to say that Catholics don’t pray to Mary but ask for her intercession and prayers on their behalf is just semantics; it is clearly prayer.

As I recall, way back when God commanded that there be “no other gods” before Him. To many non-Catholics, the Catholic Church’s devotion towared and idolizing of Mary (and to a lesser extent other saints) cannot be reconciled with that commandment.

Or perhaps the priest was remembering, admiring, or honoring Mary. I was just looking at a picture of my own mother who I loved very much and still do. And I was remembering her as I was looking at her picture. I just dusted 2 small statues and a picture of Mary. I was not worshiping the statues or the picture of Mary as I was doing so. But it crossed my mind how she was the mother of Jesus. And trust me I’m not part of any sort of Marian movement.

(wow must be something in the water today)

 

[Bluegoat]

While you may view God’s power as ‘magic’, I do not.

Relics are Biblical.

2Ki 13:20 And Eliseus died, and they buried him. And the rovers from Moab came into the land the same year.
2Ki 13:21 And some that were burying a man, saw the rovers, and cast the body into the sepulchre of Eliseus. And when it had touched the bones of Eliseus, the man came to life and stood upon his feet.

Act 19:11 And God wrought by the hand of Paul more than common miracles.
Act 19:12 So that even there were brought from his body to the sick, handkerchiefs and aprons: and the diseases departed from them: and the wicked spirits went out of them.

Some may cross lines in their worship practices, I cannot say because I cannot see in each and every individual’s heart.

The Bible does not teach for everyone to interpret scriptures for themselves. It teaches us to hold to the traditions we’ve been taught ‘whether by word or epistle’. Therefore, I accept the Church, the scriptures and the traditions, taught by her.

It really surprises me to see so many step forward and judge a whole Church, by what they view with their eye.

First, I did not say that I thought that relics were magic. I said some treated them as such. I am not sure how else I would characterize grinding them up as powder and using them as medicine. There are many close similarities between some Christian practices and magic. That doesn’t mean they are the same, but it does mean that it can be easy to misunderstand the Christian practice and think of it in the same way as magic. This is more likely in situations where people are poorly educated about their religion, and in general.

Secondly, I wasn’t stepping forward to judge the CC, I was answering the question in the OP, which was why Catholic practice was and is perceived in a certain way by some Protestants.

 

[kimmielittle]

On a Sunday last October (the 4th to be exact) I was in a Catholic Church in Florida. Near the end of the procession the celebrant turned to the left and walked up to a statue of Mary that was in a niche in the wall. The Priest stood there in adoration and prayer for about a minute, then retraced his steps and entered the Sanctuary. I wondered what that was all about, as there was nothing said about it nor a call to communal prayer, and it was not a Feast day of Mary. But it seemed that he was worshipping a statue (“Mary is really not there”, I wanted to tell him) and it made me somewhat uncomfortable, reminding me of movies in which pagans bow and scrape before large statues and icons of their gods during their rituals.

Hiyas

With all do respect why didn’t you ask afterward. I’m sure the Priest would have explained. You seem content at wallowing in your flawed observations and then basing a flawed subjective speculation to suit your needs.

Check out the religious images and statuary in your homes; my personal experience tells me that a great number of Catholic homes have more icons of Mary than anything else, and the more devoted the Catholic, the more there seem to be, inside and out.

Your personal experience would be flawed, again if you visited my home.

The questions above can be answered very easily by looking around. The idea is not a “theory” but a result of observation.

Actually, it is your subjective theory and very flawed at that. How so? Observation without question - you seem adamant in ignoring what is given you. Could this be because the answers don’t fit your needs?

IMHO, you present your religious denomination as being very uncharitable, by doing such.

As always, just my thoughts

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

First, I did not say that I thought that relics were magic. I said some treated them as such. I am not sure how else I would characterize grinding them up as powder and using them as medicine. There are many close similarities between some Christian practices and magic. That doesn’t mean they are the same, but it does mean that it can be easy to misunderstand the Christian practice and think of it in the same way as magic. This is more likely in situations where people are poorly educated about their religion, and in general.

Secondly, I wasn’t stepping forward to judge the CC, I was answering the question in the OP.

Wasn’t Jesus misunderstood in His time on earth? Didn’t the Apostles write many letters of corrections over misunderstood teachings?

It’s not the fault of Christians if others misunderstand Christianity. Should we now cover up our beliefs so there will be no misunderstandings? I think not.

 

[JRKH]

I think the sayings are “seeing is believing” and “actions speak louder than words”.

I said nothing about what anyone believes but what I and others observe. You seem very defensive about this. I have no problem with anyone’s devotional practices; if it helps someone’s understanding of and strengthens their faith in God, well and good. I just think they should be honest about it.

I have no problem owning up Praying to Mary or to Saints asking them for their intercession with Christ just as I would ask my Mother, my pastor or anyone else to pray for me.

As to the “Statues” - - What purpose do they serve? Only that they remind us of who we are speaking to. The same is true of the Crucifix - the Altar - Holy cards and any other devotionals that we might use.

It may interest you to know that no where in church teaching is praying to saints or to the Blessed Virgin required, other than for the refernces in the mass.
If a person feels uncomfortable in such prayers they simply do not do it.
SO - If, as you fear, The Church is taking from God that honor due only to him, Why is prayer to others optional? If we are supposedly making Mary into some sort of God, why is prayer to her Optional?

This is the bottom line really. We Must pray to God and Worship God. We may pray to Mary and the saints for intercession before the throne of God.
This is a HUGE difference.

Peace
James

 

[kimmielittle]

You are absolutely correct. I was a practicing Catholic for 38 years and observed first hand the types of things you have described.

Hiyas

A ‘practicing Catholic’ does not necessarily mean in Communion with the Catholic Church.

I hope this helps

 

[Bluegoat]

Wasn’t Jesus misunderstood in His time on earth? Didn’t the Apostles write many letters of corrections over misunderstood teachings?

It’s not the fault of Christians if others misunderstand Christianity. Should we now cover up our beliefs so there will be no misunderstandings? I think not.

What is your point? No one is arguing that Catholics should change. I don’t have a problem with praying to saints and my church has statues of saints.

I am saying that it is a practice that can be abused, and in some instances it has been. In some cases, it has been part of a larger problem.

This is bad for the individuals doing it, first of all. It is also bad because it is likely to be seen in a very unfavorable light by others who do not understand that it is not really correct. And so it falls to the CC to make sure they guard their members from this error through good teaching, so as not to drive away people who are shocked by such a practice. Not to stop the acceptable behavior.

What I am saying is it isn’t surprising that when this has failed, other Christians were shocked. It’s not just that Protestants are crazy as some might suggest - in some cases they were seeing something that was a real problem.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

What is your point? No one is arguing that Catholics should change. I don’t have a problem with praying to saints and my church has statues of saints.

I am saying that it is a practice that can be abused, and in some instances it has been. In some cases, it has been part of a larger problem.

This is bad for the individuals doing it, first of all. It is also bad because it is likely to be seen in a very unfavorable light by others who do not understand that it is not really correct. And so it falls to the CC to make sure they guard their members from this error through good teaching, so as not to drive away people who are shocked by such a practice. Not to stop the acceptable behavior.

What I am saying is it isn’t surprising that when this has failed, other Christians were shocked. It’s not just that Protestants are crazy as some might suggest - in some cases they were seeing something that was a real problem.

My point is, Protestants have the problem if they are judging by what they see with their eye.

It is the Church’s responsibility to make sure it’s members are avoiding errors, as you said, not those who misunderstand and generalize ALL members of the the Church by what they see.

In John 6, Christ let those who did not believe walk away. They were shocked at His teaching. Did He ‘drive’ them away?

 

[JonNC]

Well originally it started with the iconoclast heresy, but Luther & Co revived it (not the Marian part actually) for their little party.

Please identify your source which shows the Lutheran reformers supported inconoclasm.
Here is some help.

1. As Lutherans and Orthodox we affirm that the teachings of the ecumenical councils are authoritative for our churches. The ecumenical councils maintain the integrity of the teaching of the undivided Church concerning the saving, illuminating/justifying and glorifying acts of God and reject heresies which subvert the saving work of God in Christ. Orthodox and Lutherans, however, have different histories. Lutherans have received the Nicaeno?Constantinopolitan Creed with the addition of the filioque. The Seventh Ecumenical Council, the Second Council of Nicaea in 787, which rejected iconoclasm and restored the veneration of icons in the churches, was not part of the tradition received by the Reformation.** Lutherans, however, rejected the iconoclasm of the 16th century, and affirmed the distinction between adoration due to the Triune God alone and all other forms of veneration (CA 21). **Through historical research this council has become better known. Nevertheless it does not have the same significance for Lutherans as it does for the Orthodox. Yet, Lutherans and Orthodox are in agreement that the Second Council of Nicaea confirms the christological teaching of the earlier councils and in setting forth the role of images (icons) in the lives of the faithful reaffirms the reality of the incarnation of the eternal Word of God, when it states: “The more frequently, Christ, Mary, the mother of God, and the saints are seen, the more are those who see them drawn to remember and long for those who serve as models, and to pay these icons the tribute of salutation and respectful veneration. Certainly this is not the full adoration in accordance with our faith, which is properly paid only to the divine nature, but it resembles that given to the figure of the honored and life?giving cross, and also to the holy books of the gospels and to other sacred objects” (Definition of the Second Council of Nicaea).

helsinki.fi/~risaarin/lutortjointtext.html#ecum

Jon

 

[chaunceygardner]

I have no problem owning up Praying to Mary or to Saints asking them for their intercession with Christ just as I would ask my Mother, my pastor or anyone else to pray for me.

As to the “Statues” - - What purpose do they serve? Only that they remind us of who we are speaking to. The same is true of the Crucifix - the Altar - Holy cards and any other devotionals that we might use.

It may interest you to know that no where in church teaching is praying to saints or to the Blessed Virgin required, other than for the refernces in the mass.
If a person feels uncomfortable in such prayers they simply do not do it.
SO - If, as you fear, The Church is taking from God that honor due only to him, Why is prayer to others optional? If we are supposedly making Mary into some sort of God, why is prayer to her Optional?

This is the bottom line really. We Must pray to God and Worship God. We may pray to Mary and the saints for intercession before the throne of God.
This is a HUGE difference.

Peace
James

“no where in church teaching is praying to saints or to the Blessed Virgin required.”

It is not required, but it is certainly expected. What would Catholics who do pray to Mary and other Saints think of Catholics who do not? Would they be considered not wholly Catholic? I know what my Catholic grandmother would have said.

kimmielittle:

With all do respect why didn’t you ask afterward. I’m sure the Priest would have explained. You seem content at wallowing in your flawed observations and then basing a flawed subjective speculation to suit your needs.

A fair question, but not a fair statement. I wanted to ask him but I was with an elderly relative who spent time after Mass talking to friends. By then the Priest was gone. I also wanted to ask him why his parish did not distribute Communion in both kinds (they must do so some time or had in the past, since the spots for where the ministers of the wine stood were still marked on the floor). And I was not making any speculation, just relating what I observed (which seems to cause a lot of problems for some people) and wondering why. The questions of the OP jogged my memory about it and I thought it was appropriate to the topic.

kimmielittle:

Your personal experience would be flawed, again if you visited my home.

This was in regards to religious images and icons in the home. Again, I have no idea what you have or care. I am not denigrating anyone’s beliefs or practices (unlike you, attacking my discipleship in Jesus). And I am not saying that every Catholic has an abundance of Marian icons in their home or “worships” them. I was just providing my own point of view to the OP’s question from a half century of experiences, and giving examples of why non-Catholics (and believe me, some Catholics too) may think that way.

I appreciate your comments, which are even more defensive than “Prodigal Son”, but I would appreciate even more if you would recognize that I was not attacking anyone or saying people should stop honoring Mary or any other Saints. Again, I was simply pointing out observations that might help provide an answer to the OP.

kimmielittle:

A ‘practicing Catholic’ does not necessarily mean in Communion with the Catholic Church. (this was to a comment by Priscilla Ann)

Talk about “flawed subjective speculation” and judging others! This was totally uncalled for on your part. Please learn to be more considerate of others.

 

[kimmielittle]

“no where in church teaching is praying to saints or to the Blessed Virgin required.”

It is not required, but it is certainly expected. What would Catholics who do pray to Mary and other Saints think of Catholics who do not? Would they be considered not wholly Catholic? I know what my Catholic grandmother would have said.

Hiyas
Actually, it isn’t anyone’s business…as it isn’t required

A fair question, but not a fair statement. I wanted to ask him but I was with an elderly relative who spent time after Mass talking to friends. By then the Priest was gone. I also wanted to ask him why his parish did not distribute Communion in both kinds (they must do so some time or had in the past, since the spots for where the ministers of the wine stood were still marked on the floor). And I was not making any speculation, just relating what I observed (which seems to cause a lot of problems for some people) and wondering why. The questions of the OP jogged my memory about it and I thought it was appropriate to the topic.

My response was to your statement:

But it seemed that he was worshipping a statue (“Mary is really not there”, I wanted to tell him) and it made me somewhat uncomfortable, reminding me of movies in which pagans bow and scrape before large statues and icons of their gods during their rituals.

You are the one who tried, but failed, to connect the Priest’s actions to a pagan ritual.

This was in regards to religious images and icons in the home. Again, I have no idea what you have or care. I am not denigrating anyone’s beliefs or practices (unlike you, attacking my discipleship in Jesus). And I am not saying that every Catholic has an abundance of Marian icons in their home or “worships” them. I was just providing my own point of view to the OP’s question from a half century of experiences, and giving examples of why non-Catholics (and believe me, some Catholics too) may think that way.

Again speculation, in asserting "worship ’ them. IMHO it does your religious affiliation a disservice. Is this what you wish to portray? ]

I appreciate your comments, which are even more defensive than “Prodigal Son”, but I would appreciate even more if you would recognize that I was not attacking anyone or saying people should stop honoring Mary or any other Saints.

I’m a kid…help me understand.
Trying to connect the Priests actions to paganism rituals…should make me think you aren’t attacking?

Talk about “flawed subjective speculation” and judging others! This was totally uncalled for on your part. Please learn to be more considerate of others.

I’ll ask the same of you…I’m almost positive that there are “practicing” Disciples in Christ…who aren’t in communion with Church doctrine…Just as there are "practicing Catholics’ who aren’t in Communion with the Church… I was merely pointing this out.
How is that judgemental?

I hope this helps

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

Why is it, Mary is ‘attacked’ always by people who do not understand the Catholic faith? Have you read the explanations? Why do you continue to ‘judge’ us based on what you see with your eye?

When did I attack Mary?

I have read the explanations; remember, I was once a Catholic – just like you. My observations are based on my first-hand experience as a Catholic. In the time since leaving the Catholic Church, I have still observed the practices of Catholicism among my extended family.

What is it that you think I don’t understand? That “Hail, Mary” really doesn’t mean “Hail, Mary” or that “Hail, Holy Queen” doesn’t really mean what it says? Then what does it mean? Believe me, I DO understand!

 

[XinMinny]

I may be misunderstanding this thread. Is the OP asking Non-Catholics their thoughts about whether Catholics worship Mary? Or, is the OP asking Catholics how Non-Catholics could ever think that?

If the OP is asking the question of Catholics, then I am sorry for answering the question.

If the OP is asking Non-Catholics (for example, to understand our thought process), then this is my answer, and it is similar to others:

I find it hard to follow the terminology about worship/veneration. I cannot give a specific example at this time, but I would say that generally, when requests that prayers be offered by Mary on a person’s behalf include strong praise for her ability in this way, it sounds to me as if she is the one being credited with the power to do something to change the situation or help the pray-er. So, I would say that 1) It is the language used that leads me to that conclusion.

2)The language used not only in the prayers themselves, but in proclamations from Rome about her office again lead me to the same conclusion. I.e. - that Catholics believe she has great powers.

3)Most commonly, when people ask her help, they do not specifically state in the words of their prayer that they want her to ask God or Jesus to work on the person’s behalf. I suppose that it is implied in the prayer, or the thought is present in the pray-er’s mind. But, not being explicit, I can be misled.

Now, I know that to a strict Catholic, one who is serious about doctrine and understands ‘Mariology,’ these statements are like telling a Catholic what they believe. I don’t mean them that way at all. It is simply these things that lead a person to conclude that Mary is being worshipped.

PS - Another question, and one that seems serious to me, is: "Do most Catholics understand the difference? And, if they don’t, does that mean that Mary is actually being worshipped (although such worship would be outside of accepted Catholic teaching) ?

Thanks for reading the whole post.

And, I do enjoy reading the discussions. It is a different side to the Church than I saw as a child.

~ Minny

 

[tweetymom]

Or perhaps the priest was remembering, admiring, or honoring Mary. I was just looking at a picture of my own mother who I loved very much and still do. And I was remembering her as I was looking at her picture. I just dusted 2 small statues and a picture of Mary. I was not worshiping the statues or the picture of Mary as I was doing so. But it crossed my mind how she was the mother of Jesus. And trust me I’m not part of any sort of Marian movement.

(wow must be something in the water today)

really lol

 

[chaunceygardner]

You are the one who tried, but failed, to connect the Priest’s actions to a pagan ritual.

That was not my intent, and if that is how it appeared, I apologize. I just thought it was “over the top” and seemed disconnected from the rest of the liturgy.

Again speculation, in asserting "worship ’ them. IMHO it does your religious affiliation a disservice. Is this what you wish to portray? ]

No assertion occurred; in fact, if you read what I said carefully, you will see that I said I WASN’T asserting that. And that I willingly leave to every individual to decide what is appropriate for them. But for some inexplicable reason, you failed to understand correctly what I wrote, which may be my fault for how I wrote it.

I’m a kid…help me understand.
Trying to connect the Priests actions to paganism rituals…should make me think you aren’t attacking?

You should realize that ALL religions have rituals. I guess I should have made clear that to me it appeared that during the start of that liturgy the Priest, by his actions, was recognizing more than one divinity. If he had said a prayer out loud re: honoring Mary, to or with the entire congregation and not praying quietly while adoring a statue of her, I would not have thought it strange. It was the the nature of his actions within a liturgy which I thought should be focused on God that disturbed me. I hope that better explains my discomfort. I was not tieing the Catholic liturgy to a pagan ritual.

I’ll ask the same of you…I’m almost positive that there are “practicing” Disciples in Christ…who aren’t in communion with Church doctrine…Just as there are "practicing Catholics’ who aren’t in Communion with the Church… I was merely pointing this out.
How is that judgemental?

That would be difficult, since as far as I know there is no organized church called “Disciples of Jesus”. Consequently, no church doctrine. And everyone in it is “in communion” with God since we are all His creation, and He is in us and we are in Him. This “church” is open to anyone with faith in God and who follows the teachings and example of Jesus. Which SHOULD include Catholics, Protestants, and even others who are not considered Christian by some. It is a “church” that is very inclusive, as Jesus was, rather than exclusive. We could also call it “Living The Gospel”.

Peace be with you on your own journey with (and to) God.

 

[chaunceygardner]

PS - Another question, and one that seems serious to me, is: "Do most Catholics understand the difference? And, if they don’t, does that mean that Mary is actually being worshipped (although such worship would be outside of accepted Catholic teaching) ?

Thanks for reading the whole post.

And, I do enjoy reading the discussions. It is a different side to the Church than I saw as a child.

~ Minny

I quoted this particular part of your post as I think it is the crux of the issue: Where is the line between honoring and loving Mary for her role vs. stepping outside of Church teaching and worshipping her? That is the question that may be very difficult to answer, but one that each person should consider.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[kempo1]

The whole reason for the existence of the C.C. is Jesus Christ. That being said we have our heros of the faith. Recognizing them and asking them for prayer intentions should not be a problem for any christian. THe reason some people ask Mary for intercesary prayer is because of her purity, which is something we all lack. Her purity you would think would hold some type of weight in heaven, oh and the fact that she carried our Lord for nine months give or take. Is it better to not ask Her for prayer?

 

[JRKH]

“no where in church teaching is praying to saints or to the Blessed Virgin required.”

It is not required, but it is certainly expected. What would Catholics who do pray to Mary and other Saints think of Catholics who do not? Would they be considered not wholly Catholic? I know what my Catholic grandmother would have said.

In my answer I was not interested in what might be “expected” by individual catholics, nor was I interested in what other catholics might “think” about a Catholic who did not pray to Mary. in fact I have been berate on this very forum in the past for my views on Marion devotion. Such berating does not change Church teaching.
My point was simple - to the point - and remains true. There is **NO requirement **in the Catholic Church that we pray to, or ask the intercession of, Mary or the Saints.

This lack of requirement is, to my mind, a strong argument against those who say that The Church worships Mary.

I did a seach of some “Key words” in the Catechism with th following results.
Worship God = 46 results - clearly stating that we owe “worship” to “God”
Worship Mary = 2 Results - neither of which stat that we should worship Mary.
Pray God = 58 Results - clearly showing that we pray to and worship God.
Pray Mary = 5 Results - demonstrating that our prayers are not in worship but in intercession.

I ask anyone who is conderned about the Catholic view of Mary to go to the Catechism linked above and do as I did. Enter whatever search parameters you’d like and look at the results. Then if you have any questions about what is written there, please come and post them. This would be much more productive than dancing back and forth about what this or that individual catholic does.
In fact working from the catachism would be beneficial to both catholic AND non-catholic for in so doing we might both prevent a catholic from falling into a trap of worshiping Mary and also educate non-catholics in what the Church actually teaches from actual, documented, catholic sources.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by XinMinny
PS - Another question, and one that seems serious to me, is: "Do most Catholics understand the difference? And, if they don’t, does that mean that Mary is actually being worshipped (although such worship would be outside of accepted Catholic teaching) ?

Absolutely agree with this.
We indeed must be careful to understand the differences.

Our Non-Catholic friends (not you in particular but all) should also be careful to understand the differences so that they do not make the mistake of accusing someone of worshipping Mary, based on “apperances” or on “misinformation”, when they are not.

This is why I Love our Catechism and link to it often. It removes, for the most part, the confusion about what The Church actually teaches and is a benefit to both Catholic and non-catholics in trying to understand the teachings of ancient and Holy Church.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

I may be misunderstanding this thread. Is the OP asking Non-Catholics their thoughts about whether Catholics worship Mary? Or, is the OP asking Catholics how Non-Catholics could ever think that?

If the OP is asking the question of Catholics, then I am sorry for answering the question.

If the OP is asking Non-Catholics (for example, to understand our thought process), then this is my answer, and it is similar to others:

Given that the post is in the non-catholic religions forum and from the way it is worded I’d say that your second assumption is correct.

I find it hard to follow the terminology about worship/veneration. I cannot give a specific example at this time, but I would say that generally, when requests that prayers be offered by Mary on a person’s behalf include strong praise for her ability in this way, it sounds to me as if she is the one being credited with the power to do something to change the situation or help the pray-er. So, I would say that

1. It is the language used that leads me to that conclusion.

I agree. The language used both in prayer and in the explanations can be confusing, even to Catholics. I struggle with this too. Partly that is because, while the Church is very precise in it’s terminology and explanations, the world is not. The Church has certain definitions for certain words and these generally do not change over time. The world, on the other hand, especally the US, has little respect for words and their meanings and are constantly changing and interchanging them and using them in ways that cause them to loose their precision and become confusing.
The term "Gay " is a wonderful example. A mere fifty years ago this term meant “happy”, “merry” but is that what lept to mind when you read the word in this sentence? I bet it wasn’t. So - in 50 years, less actually, this word went from meaning one thing to meaning something completely different in general conversation.

2)The language used not only in the prayers themselves, but in proclamations from Rome about her office again lead me to the same conclusion. I.e. - that Catholics believe she has great powers.

Yes this can be seen this way, for indeed Mary does have great power - But it is power derived, as all power is, from God through Christ. However, in our (name removed by moderator)recise and “shorthand” way of talking we might not clearly communicate this. Let me give an example of what I mean.
Suppose there were a great preacher who could hold large audiences spellbound, not by shouting and leaping about, but by the very command and authority of his words. Suppose this same individual, while never taking to himself any credit, could lay his hands upon people and cure them of ills and of evils.
Now - We know that this person derives such power from God through Christ and the Holy Spirit. This man also knows this and always proclaims the same. He never takes credit but always points towards God as the source of His gifts and source of the cures. He even tells others that they really don’t need Him, they can go directly to God with their petitions and that God will Listen to them and answer them according to His will.
Do you think that you, or others, might describe such a preacher as “having great powers”?
Do you think, just because this preacher tells others that they don’t need him and they can take their prayers directly to God, that this will prevent people from coming to him with their petitions and ask him to cure them?
Do you think that this preacher, having been given these gifts from God for the Glory of His Kingdom, will turn away those seeking his aid and intercession?

Ponder on this a bit and then consider how Mary is talked about and also on the number of “answered prayers”, “cures”, and “miracles”, that are attributed to her intercession.

3)Most commonly, when people ask her help, they do not specifically state in the words of their prayer that they want her to ask God or Jesus to work on the person’s behalf. I suppose that it is implied in the prayer, or the thought is present in the pray-er’s mind. But, not being explicit, I can be misled.

Consider in my scenerio above how poeple might, and probably will, say of the preacher, “He has great power”, or when they need a cure they say to him, “Cure me” etc. Even devout non-catholic Christians can make such statements without meaning to detract from God’s Glory. They make such statements with an implication that such power comes from God and not from the individual.

Now, I know that to a strict Catholic, one who is serious about doctrine and understands ‘Mariology,’ these statements are like telling a Catholic what they believe. I don’t mean them that way at all. It is simply these things that lead a person to conclude that Mary is being worshipped.

And they are legitimate questions. That is why we as Catholics owe it to our bretheren to have legitimate answers. We only ask that our bretheren be willing to accept our answers in the same Christian Charity that we accept their questions.

(cont)