Non Catholic Interpretation of Matthew 16:18-19

[1beleevr]

John 20:21-22

21So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

I have yet to hear a comprehensive answer by protestants to explain this event.

Confession was historically practiced since the time of Christ’s ministry. sinners came to Christ in person in order to confess their sinfulness to Him where he would forgive them of their sins. The pharisees were livid over this. And when Christ had ascended into Heaven, His followers would act in his stead or in persona Christi, in the person of Christ; a representative on His behalf acting with His power not any power of their own.

“Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure” (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).

“You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light” (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).

Confession was the way this was done from the time of the apostles up to the present day. Whether you agree with this theologically speaking is your own choice, but historically speaking this is a fact.

Ther is also a direct line to Our Heavenly Father, as 1 John 1:9 points out! Or you can confess your sins one to another, as James 5:16 says. And speaking of comprehensive explanations about events, catholics tend to gloss over 1John 1:9. Can a priest cleanse you of all unrighteousness, and wickedness?

 

[Nicea325]

John 20:21-22

21So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

I have yet to hear a comprehensive answer by protestants to explain this event.

Confession was historically practiced since the time of Christ’s ministry. sinners came to Christ in person in order to confess their sinfulness to Him where he would forgive them of their sins. The pharisees were livid over this. And when Christ had ascended into Heaven, His followers would act in his stead or in persona Christi, in the person of Christ; a representative on His behalf acting with His power not any power of their own.

“Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure” (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).

“You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light” (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).

Confession was the way this was done from the time of the apostles up to the present day. Whether you agree with this theologically speaking is your own choice, but historically speaking this is a fact.

But you see the problem is that most non-Catholics I have ever met or encountered disregard most of early church history. And why? Because it teaches exactly what they have been told or taught not to believe or consider it false. They usually tell me:

I only follow the Bible and not a bunch of men.

Goes to show how blind some are to history,because their beloved Bible is PART of that larger context of early church history.

 

[1beleevr]

And let us say for the sake argument, it is not the CC, then which church was he referring to? The Baptist? Methodist? New Song Church? Hope Fellowship church,etc,etc,etc?

No, silly, His church is all believers, not just one group! When you see a sign that says:“The church has left thebuilding,” itmeans all the believers have went home! You know, like that Casting Crowns song, “If We are The Body?”

 

[elvisman]

It’s too bad that Paul isn’t alive so we could ask him ourselves From reading the epistle, it would seem that he is speaking about ALL who are born of the seed of a man(Jesus was born of the seed of a woman). When Adam and Eve sinned(not named Eve until after the fall), sinn was introduced to the worl, as well as death(physical). So, you cannot separate who sinned and who didn’t, or Paul would have clarified that!

So infants and toddlers sin?
Severly retarded people sin even though they don’t have control of their faculties?
Do you honestly believe that??

 

[elvisman]

Read it again, you are giving the catholic church’s position on these scriptures! It is unclear if Matthew 5:26 speaks of purgatory, nd the other world is Heaven; pay attention!

There is NO forgiveness in heaven because NOTHING unclean can enter it (Rev. 21:27).

So, I’ll ask you again:
What does Jesus mean by being forgiven in the "next world"??

 

[elvisman]

No, silly, His church is all believers, not just one group! When you see a sign that says:“The church has left thebuilding,” itmeans all the believers have went home! You know, like that Casting Crowns song, “If We are The Body?”

**Can you show me where it says this in the Bible??
Can you show me where it says that all believers are part of Christ’s ONE Church? Can you?

 

[1beleevr]

**So, you’re saying that it all boils down to Sola Scriptura **for you? If it DOES - and I don’t want to derail this thread - but explain where THAT is taught in the Bible.

While you’re at it, tell me WHY you believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God.

Where did I say that? Proverbs 3:5 is just ONE of the thousands of verses I live by! I never said that Sola SCriptura was taught in the Bible!

 

[1beleevr]

**So infants **and toddlers sin?
Severly retarded people sin even though they don’t have control of their faculties?
Do you honestly believe that??

I don’t know; Paul wasn’t specific when he said ALL have sinned…

 

[1beleevr]

There is NO forgiveness in heaven because NOTHING unclean can enter it (Rev. 21:27).

So, I’ll ask you again:
What does Jesus mean by being forgiven in the "next world"??

The next world would have to be Heaven, wher there would be no need for forgiveness!

 

[1beleevr]

**Can you show me *where ***it says this in the Bible??
Can you show me where it says that all believers are part of Christ’s ONE Church? Can you?

The apostles taught that all who called upon the name of Jesus could be saved. Why can’t believers be part of one church, without having to have a religious title? And it doesn’t specifically say that all believers are part of His church(altough we are part of the Bride of Christ). But if everyone who confesses with his mouth that Jesus is Lord will be saved, then how can we exclude them from His church?

 

[1beleevr]

John 20:21-22

21So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

I have yet to hear a comprehensive answer by protestants to explain this event.

Confession was historically practiced since the time of Christ’s ministry. sinners came to Christ in person in order to confess their sinfulness to Him where he would forgive them of their sins. The pharisees were livid over this. And when Christ had ascended into Heaven, His followers would act in his stead or in persona Christi, in the person of Christ; a representative on His behalf acting with His power not any power of their own.

“Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure” (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).

“You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light” (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).

Confession was the way this was done from the time of the apostles up to the present day. Whether you agree with this theologically speaking is your own choice, but historically speaking this is a fact.

Didn’t Dokimas ask you where it say that a sinner, or a siining Christian has to go to a priest, as opposed to God Himself through Christ?

 

[elvisman]

Where did I say that? Proverbs 3:5 is just ONE of the thousands of verses I live by! I never said that Sola SCriptura was taught in the Bible!

In post #318, you rejected Apostolic Tradition when you said that you don’t want to hear, "It’s what the apostles taught!"

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**Those who reject Apostolic Tradition ang go solely by the Scripture teaches adhere to Sola Scriptura. As Catholics, we go by Sola Verbum Dei - the Word of God Alone - not just what is wriiten . . .

 

[elvisman]

The next world would have to be Heaven, wher there would be no need for forgiveness!

**Then why would Jesus be talking about being forgiven in the next world - hmmm?? **
He’s not talking about heaven OR hell, because there is no forgiveness in EITHER place. He’s talking about purgation.

Game. Set. MATCH.

 

[elvisman]

I don’t know; Paul wasn’t specific when he said ALL have sinned…

PRECISELY.
That’s because there ARE exceptions like babies, the severly retarded - AND Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant.

 

[elvisman]

The apostles taught that all who called upon the name of Jesus could be saved. Why can’t believers be part of one church, without having to have a religious title? And it doesn’t specifically say that all believers are part of His church(altough we are part of the Bride of Christ). But if everyone who confesses with his mouth that Jesus is Lord will be saved, then how can we exclude them from His church?

EXACTLY**.**

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**BUT – what do we ALSO have to do? Believing isn’t just confessing that Christ is your Savior. **

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Matt. 7:21** says emphatically*: “Not everyone* who says to me, “Lord, Lord” shall enter the kingdom of heaven."**

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James 2:19** tells us that, even the demons believe and they tremble.**

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For the Church, “believing in the Lord Jesus” has ALWAYS meant?
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Romans 2:29, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21)
- Dying and being buried with him through Baptism (Rom. 6:1-11)
- We must suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)
- Enduring to the end (Matt. 24:13)

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**If you merely say you “believe” in Christ – you’re no better off than the demons . . .

 

[elvisman]

Didn’t Dokimas ask you where it say that a sinner, or a siining Christian has to go to a priest, as opposed to God Himself through Christ?

Catholics DO go to God. The difference is that we do it in the manner prescribed by God. We don’t reject the way HE set it up.

 

[1beleevr]

In post #318, you rejected Apostolic Tradition when you said that you don’t want to hear, “It’s what the apostles taught!”

---

**Those who reject **Apostolic Tradition ang go solely by the Scripture teaches adhere to Sola Scriptura. As Catholics, we go by Sola Verbum Dei - the Word of God Alone - not just what is *wriiten *. . .

I just get real tired of hearing the same old line,like people can’t think for themselves! I live by every Word that floweth from the mouth of God!

 

[elvisman]

I just get real tired of hearing the same old line,like people can’t think for themselves! I live by every Word that floweth from the mouth of God!

No, you don’t.
Otherwise, you wouldn’t only adhere to what is written.

 

[1beleevr]

Then why would Jesus be talking about being forgiven in the next world - hmmm??
He’s not talking about heaven OR hell, because there is no forgiveness in EITHER place. He’s talking about purgation.

Game. Set. MATCH.

Uh-oh, looks like we’re going into overtime No game, set, match here! You cannot say with any certainty that He was speaking about purgatory! 40-love

 

[elvisman]

Didn’t Dokimas ask you where it say that a sinner, or a siining Christian has to go to a priest, as opposed to God Himself through Christ?

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests: Aaron, the High Priest, the Levitical Priesthood, and the rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

**In the New Testament, there are alsothree levels of Priests: Jesus, our High Priest **(1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25), the Ministerial/Levitical Priests (James 5:14-15) and the general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

**Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than **the Old Testament type.

**Finally, in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent **(Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).