Non Catholic looking for a discussion on your beliefs

[TheWryWren]

@Reformedbaptist
First of all, I’m glad you are willing to have this kind of discussion! CAF is a great place to have your questions answered

Secondly, your 10th point is a very common question, but I will break up all of the reading you have done with a video!

For future reference, Fr. Mike Shmitz’s youtube channel is a fantastic resource!

 

[irenaeuslyons]

#1

Mt. to Rev. - Peter leads the apostles. Peter is mentioned 155 times and all other apostles combined are 130 times. Peter is always listed first but for two obvious exceptions to the rule (1Cor 3:22; Gal 2:9).

Mt. 16:16; Mk. 8:29; Jn. 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.

Mt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.

Mt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.

Mt. 16:19 - Only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority and dynastic succession to his authority. Jesus purposely uses the language of Isa 22:22 where keys are handed down from one steward of the kings house to another.

Jn. 21:15-17 - Jesus tells Peter to “feed my lambs” “tend my sheep” “feed my sheep”. Peter feeds all, including apostles.

Mt. 17:24-25 - Peter is asked for Jesus’ tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.

Gal. 1:18 - Paul spends fifteen days with Peter before beginning his ministry, even after Christ’s Revelation to Paul. This was because Peter was the leader of the Apostles.

Acts. 1:20-26 – By word of Peter, a new bishop/apostle is chosen by lots under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Acts. 5:1-6 – Peter passes judgment on Ananias and his wife for their incorrect behavior as disciples.

Acts. 15:7-12 – Peter resolves a doctrinal issue at the first Apostolic Council. After Peter spoke, all were silent. Afterward, Paul and Barnabas speak in support.

Running out of time here… John races to the tomb and gets there before Peter. But he waits and lets Peter (the leader) enter first. Christ appeared to Peter first then to the twelve. Jesus prayed that Peters faith would not fail. Jesus’ prayers are always answered.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

continued:

“The church of God which sojourns at Rome to the church of God which sojourns at Corinth … But if any disobey the words spoken by him through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and in no small danger.”
Pope St. Clement of Rome, 1st Epistle to the Corinthians (A.D. 96)

“… the Church which presides in the place of the region of the Romans, and which is worthy of God, worthy of honour, worthy of the highest happiness, worthy of praise, worthy of credit, worthy of being deemed holy, and which presides over love…”
St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans (A.D. 110)

" [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority…"
St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies (A.D. 180)

 

[Muzhik]

3)How does purgatory work.

Quite well, actually. (BA-DA-BUMP)

Here’s MY analogy: you and you friends play baseball in the vacant lot next door. One day you hit a home run that also breaks the neighbor’s window. The neighbor comes out, returns your ball, you talk, he forgives you, and all is well in the world, right?

Except …

Who fixes the window?

You could say the neighbor fixes the window, but you see, HE didn’t break it. If he is constantly fixing the windows that the neighbor kids break, how will they learn to accept responsibility to fix the things they break?

Since nothing impure can enter heaven, Purgatory is the place where people who have not totally broken their relationship with G_D can repair it. This is done through suffering, which allows the person to break his or her attachments to any and all sins he held during his mortal life.

 

[De_Maria]

If you only want to answer something …

It’s good that you’re taking such an interest in religion at such a young age. God will bless you for this.

1)So how do you justify the Pope in scripture.

Before I begin, I’d like to inform you that we don’t go by Scripture alone. We don’t justify the Pope in Scripture. Jesus Christ established the Papacy before the NT was written. It is one of the commands that He commissioned the Church to Teach (Matt 28:18-20). The Church wrote about this already existing position in Matt 16:18-19. But the position pre-existed the New Testament Scripture.

1. What is your belief on Total Depravity( I would be interested in a discussion on TULIP in general with a Catholic).

Total Depravity is a false doctrine. We believe that men have a fallen nature due to Adam’s sin. But, we believe that men can be saved and that we are co-labourers with Christ in order to accomplish this salvation.

Scripture says:

1 Corinthians 3:9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

And again:

1 Timothy 4:16Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

3)How does purgatory work.

We believe that men are sinners. Further, that therefore, most of us will die with sins upon our soul. But if we are faithful, these sins are not unto death:

1 John 5:16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. …

Therefore, we obey St. John’s command and pray for those who have died in the faith, whose sins are not unto death, and God will grant them life.

1. How is praying to patron saints and Mary not idolatry.

Prayer is communication. Let me give you an example from Scripture:

Genesis 12:13Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

And this is what we do. We address the saints with pleas for help. We say to them, “I pray thee, that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.”

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

cont’d

1. How do you justify the baptism of infants(since they do not comprehend their own existence much less an unseen God).

We know that Jesus Christ hears the prayers of parents on behalf of their children. There are many examples, but I’ll give this one:

Matthew 9:18While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Notice that this child is already dead. Therefore, this child can not make a statement of faith. But, does Jesus save her? Yes.

23 And when Jesus came into the ruler’s house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise, 24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. 25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.

Now, an unbaptized child is dead in spirit. But Christ brings that child’s spirit to life, by the faith of the parents.

1. What are your beliefs on free-will.

God has given man, free will.

6.2) How does free-will not limit the sovereign authority of God over his creation.

Our sins do not affect God’s sovereignty. God wants all men to do good and avoid sin. Total Depravity diminishes the sovereign authority of God over His creation.

John 8:11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

1. How do you justify continueism( or the idea that the powers of Christ and the Apostles continue on to this day).

Christ said so:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

cont’d

1. How is the Catholic Church the first church if in the letters of the Apostle Paul he writes about how the church should be established there is not supposed to be a singular church leader and all the churches are addressed as separate churches but one in Christ.

Jesus Christ only established one Church. Matt 16:18-19
All other churches are subordinate to that Church.

1. How can the Pope claim to be infallible,

The same way the Scriptures are infallible.

2 Pet 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

if so then his sermons(I don’t know if that’s the word you use) should be biblical Canon.

They are the Word of God.

1. Why do you call your priest father when in Matthew 23:9 that is forbidden.

a. Why do you call your father, father, when this is forbidden in the same verse?
b. Because Scripture tells us that we have many fathers in the faith:

1 Corinthians 4:15For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Here, St. Paul calls himself our father in the faith.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Here, St. John depicts himself as the father of the Church.

I hope that helps.

 

[po18guy]

As to “Father”…

Jesus NEVER said “Call no one on earth father” - He didn’t.

He said “Call no one on earth YOUR father” - and for CONTEXT He said this to the Pharisees who consistently and wrongly justified themselves as having Abraham as their “father.”

Paul - PAUL!!! - wrote that he had become Timothy and Titus’ father in the faith. A spiritual father, not a genealogical father. As well, to the Corinthians he wrote:

1 Corinthians 4:14-17
Fatherly Admonition
14 I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16 I urge you, then, be imitators of me. 17 Therefore I sent[a] to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.

Context is everything, as is reading the entire bible rather than solely the verses that agree with one’s personal views.

I do not expect you ever to investigate Catholicism further, let alone convert. However, a very high percentage of those who have investigated have been convicted in conscience and later converted.

Also, I call BS (Blessed Scripture) on those who claim that the Catholic Church simply makes things up. No - that was practiced and perfected in 16th century Europe, I’m afraid.

Truth is SRS business.

 

[englands123]

1. Why do you call your priest father when in Matthew 23:9 that is forbidden.

Remember a priest cannot tell you what to do in life.
They must only guide you.

I ask you this in return.

If you murdered someone who on this whole earth can you tell and trust 100% not to tell another living soul?

If you can answer this question I will answer your question , why they are called Father on earth.

 

[englands123]

I don’t call my Dad (Father)… As I only have one Father.

But I love my Dad.

 

[po18guy]

Your choice.

 

[mikie11b]

I married a Catholic. I didn’t agree with Catholicism, but still viewed them as valid Christians, so not to big a deal. I took her to my church and we went to Holy Mass together. After studying to try and convince her to just come to protestant church and actually be saved, I realized I was Catholic and became Catholic. Been Catholic for almost two years and have started helping at RCIA now.