Non-Catholic religions and abortion

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AgnosTheist said:
DEAL! now show me a scientific definition of “Human Being” and show me how it fully applies to a fertilized egg.
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I don’t believe there’s any dispute in the scientific community as to whetherr a fertilized egg is human. What else could it be.?

Again you want to frame the argument based on own definitions to support an assertion of what human life deserves to be protected. I believe all human life should be-regardless of what label you want to hang on a particular stage of development.
 
AgnosTheist said:
you asked me how i define the human mind, i wanted to hear yours first, but oh well:

The Human Mind collectively refers to the aspects of intellect and consciousness manifested as combinations of thought, perception, memory, emotion, will and imagination. It is the stream of consciousness.

Now how do YOU define ‘human mind’?
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As I stated earlier the human mind is created at conception. Just like the rest of the baby.

I did not bring up the ‘human mind’ argument, you did.

Defining the ‘human mind’ is kinda like trying to tell someone what a banana tastes like.🤷

And for the sake of argument, your definition of human mind and your criteria for abortion do not jive.
 
AgnosTheist said:
pure rubbish. we all die. fetuses die. babies die. the question is, when does life begin? sperms have a life of their own. dead sperms dont fertilize eggs.
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Sperm is not separate distinct human life. A Fertilized egg is. I’m kind of surprised at this stage we’re still having to explain to you basic biology
 
estesbob said:
I don’t believe there’s any dispute in the scientific community as to whetherr a fertilized egg is human. What else could it be.?
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The scientific community does not dispute that a human (fertilized) egg is not a human being. As much as a human leg is not a human being.
estesbob said:
Again you want to frame the argument based on own definitions to support
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the definition i used above, i got it from wikipedia. on discussions like these, i never use my own definitions.
 
AgnosTheist said:
you asked me how i define the human mind, i wanted to hear yours first, but oh well:

The Human Mind collectively refers to the aspects of intellect and consciousness manifested as combinations of thought, perception, memory, emotion, will and imagination. It is the stream of consciousness.

Now how do YOU define ‘human mind’?
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Further, since you can define the human mind and allow abortion based on its formation please tell me the exact moment that this happens during gestation.

This should be VERY simple for you to prove since you base your allowance for abortion on it.
 
iamrefreshed said:
As I stated earlier the human mind is created at conception. Just like the rest of the baby.

I did not bring up the ‘human mind’ argument, you did.

Defining the ‘human mind’ is kinda like trying to tell someone what a banana tastes like.🤷

And for the sake of argument, your definition of human mind and your criteria for abortion do not jive.
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Religious catholics are so predictible. Thats why held this link back, to later prove how biased you are:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mind

Does not jive? Get real. 😃
 
AgnosTheist said:
DEAL! now show me a scientific definition of “Human Being” and show me how it fully applies to a fertilized egg.
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If there is doubt in the scientific community as to when human life begins that should lead you to some skepticism. What is the morally prudent thing to do when human life is in doubt, when we cannot be certain of choosing amongst a potentially ambiguous outcome.

You take the safe route … you protect life until you are certain it is not. You take a morally indefensible route … the scientific community is unsure so where is your basis for taking this route … you could be wrong and if you are then your choice led to the destruction of a class of people. If I am wrong then people lived when potentially one could have chosen to destroy without guilt or punishment.

You run over a lump in the road on a unlit road. What do you do? Drive on without a worry … you are sure it is not a person, drive on but worry that it was a person, go back and find out it was not a person or go back and find it was a person. Your position is the first … drive on because you are sure. That is worst amongst all the choices … at least the second has an inkling that it may be wrong.
 
iamrefreshed said:
That’s a riot!

The second paragraph of your ‘definition’ introduces the word debate over the definition of the mind!
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read it again, it says:

*The question of which human attributes *make up the mind is also much debated.

is it just the attributes of reasoning & memory? or is it also the emotions? In either case not one of the attributes mentioned is present in a young embryo.
 
You notice I did not tell you that you were wrong. What I am telling you is there is no support for your position from science or philosophy. universally, at this point in time. There is division and disagreement but that division tells us something. It tells us what choices are morally acceptable given what we know for sure at this point in time. In the end you may end up right but that does not matter, right now today in the society where we live.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Religious catholics are so predictible. Thats why held this link back, to later prove how biased you are:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mind

Does not jive? Get real. 😃
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It is a compilation of opinions not factsI could go on there right now and and the article to say that a fertilized egg had a human mind and it would remain so until somebody came along and changed it.
 
iamrefreshed said:
Further, since you can define the human mind and allow abortion based on its formation please tell me the exact moment that this happens during gestation.

This should be VERY simple for you to prove since you base your allowance for abortion on it.
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Thanks for your replies Agno.

Will you be able to answer this one as well?
 
AgnosTheist said:
The scientific community does not dispute that a human (fertilized) egg is not a human being. As much as a human leg is not a human being.
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If it is not human what is it? Human leg is not separate separate and distinct human life
the definition i used above, i got it from wikipedia. on discussions like these, i never use my own definitions.
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Wikipedia has its uses but I found it to be totally useless when getting into any controversial issues. Anybody can go to article and insert their opinion as fact.
 
estesbob said:
If it is not human what is it? Human leg is not separate separate and distinct human life
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A Human BEING. 2 words. Now thats another concept that needs to be examined. ‘Human Being’, ‘Person’, ‘Human Mind’, it all ties up, and none of them applies to a young embryo

Wikipedia has its uses but I found it to be totally useless when getting into any controversial issues. Anybody can go to article and insert their opinion as fact.
 
AgnosTheist said:
A Human BEING. 2 words. Now thats another concept that needs to be examined. ‘Human Being’, ‘Person’, ‘Human Mind’, it all ties up, and none of them applies to a young embryo
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So? Is the young embryo human or not?
 
AgnosTheist said:
A Human BEING. 2 words. Now thats another concept that needs to be examined. ‘Human Being’, ‘Person’, ‘Human Mind’, it all ties up, and none of them applies to a young embryo
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Quit with the single sentence responses. What ties up ??? how?? When do these qualities get assigned or earned ?? It has been asked by others and you never throw out anything more substantiative than wikipedia quotes. Specially what test or criteria make your solution viable and workable? When is it administered and how is it evaluated? You bring up this subjective term mind yet never give anything beyond this “none of them applies to the embryo”. Have you really thought this out?
 
AgnosTheist said:
Yes it is human. But its not a Human Being.
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I disagree with that but why does it matter? Why doent ALL human life deserve protection? Can you giveme a reason other than having to accpet you personal definition of “person” or “human being”?
 
iamrefreshed said:
Further, since you can define the human mind and allow abortion based on its formation please tell me the exact moment that this happens during gestation.

This should be VERY simple for you to prove since you base your allowance for abortion on it.
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I hope you don’t think I’m badgering you Agno. I appreciate your responses thus far.

But I am very interested in hearing your response to this question.

I think that, based on all your posts, you must be able to answer this question in order to justify to yourself your position on abortion. Otherwise you may need to give some serious thought to your stated positions.

Again, I’m not being confrontational. I’m just hoping to sway a pro-choicer to pro-life!😃
 
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