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AgnosTheist
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my friend, i was asking about the fertilized egg. not the embryo. and yeah i did study fetal development.
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Jennifer123
Guest
A fertilized egg IS an embryo. To say otherwise is to try to distort facts in order to dehumanize.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
incorrect.
biotech.icmb.utexas.edu/search/dict-search2.html?bo1=AND&word=embryo&search_type=normal&def=
**embryo **
Definition:
1. A stage of development in a multicelled organism between the time that the zygote is fertilized and the point at which the organism developing from that zygote becomes free-living.
2. Specifically, in vertebrate animals, the developmental stage from after the long axis appears until all major anatomical structures form.
3. In human development, this is from about two weeks after fertilization until the seventh or eighth week of pregnancy.
told you i studied these things.
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Jennifer123
Guest
“I would say that among most scientists, the word ‘embryo’ includes the time from after fertilization…”
[Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel – Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31]
“Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote.”
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]
“Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being.”
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]
“Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus.”
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]
“Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term ‘embryo’ is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy.”
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]
You may want to study Embryology
[Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel – Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31]
“Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote.”
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]
“Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being.”
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]
“Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus.”
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]
“Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term ‘embryo’ is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy.”
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]
You may want to study Embryology
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elvisman
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snowfly
Guest
New life has begun, and you don’t really know at what stage we can apply the term person to the union of the sperm and the egg, let alone determine when that person can know it’s an " I "
It’s a bit like trying to gain knowledge of Heaven where eye has not seen etc;
If you say you believe in the soul of that person, then when does it receive it’s soul ?
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AgnosTheist
Guest
just an opinion?
the embryo is still being developed. instead the fertilized result was referred to as zygote, not embryo.
again the fertilized egg was called ‘zygote’, not ‘embryo’.
did not specify the ‘time of fertilization’.
does not specify how early.
told i studied these things.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
we dont know the exact moment, but we sure know when its not possible. it cannot be a person yet in the first 90 days.
as soon as it develops a mind.
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iamrefreshed
Guest
I hardly think a quick Wikipedia cut and paste constitutes studytold i studied these things.
You still never answered questions regarding your ‘90 day rule’.
What if you time the pregnancy wrong and aborted at 93 days. Is that murder?
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Jennifer123
Guest
I just happened to take one last look before I left the computer for good and saw your response. Thank you. 
“time of fertilization” is known as conception. The “zygote” is a term for a stage of development for the embryo, has the DNA of both parents in a one-celled organism, therefore has 46 chromosomes, the number needed for human life, and so is a unique living human being.
The facts remains, even though you disagree with the experts that I’ve posted, (note that PETER SINGER is one of the experts
who even sees a fertilized egg as embryo), that:
“the term and concept of “pre-embryo” has never been accepted by Congress, the National Institutes of Health’s Human Embryo Research Panel, or the National Bioethics Advisory Commission, and is rejected by contemporary textbooks on embryology.”
usccb.org/prolife/issues/bioethic/fact298.htm
“time of fertilization” is known as conception. The “zygote” is a term for a stage of development for the embryo, has the DNA of both parents in a one-celled organism, therefore has 46 chromosomes, the number needed for human life, and so is a unique living human being.
The facts remains, even though you disagree with the experts that I’ve posted, (note that PETER SINGER is one of the experts
who even sees a fertilized egg as embryo), that:“the term and concept of “pre-embryo” has never been accepted by Congress, the National Institutes of Health’s Human Embryo Research Panel, or the National Bioethics Advisory Commission, and is rejected by contemporary textbooks on embryology.”
usccb.org/prolife/issues/bioethic/fact298.htm
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snowfly
Guest
Back to Jeremias :bible1: so would that be a fully formed mind, half a mind, quarter, or like many I know, they don’t even know their own mind ?
Ok so the soul would only be in a formed mind (brain) ? if God forbid that person had an accident and their mind wasn’t functioning properly, would the soul be damaged too ?
IE; would the soul depart from a damaged mind, as you say it only comes when they developed a mind ?
And what about people who’s brain doesn’t form properly anyway, do they receive a soul ?
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RebeccaJ
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What makes a person is that the person exists. A mind does not exist out of nothing.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
notice that i added biotech & webster into my resume.
Is that murder. That depends on the laws of the land. Murder is the unlawful killing of an individual. So if abortion was legal when that happened then it could never count as murder. But I suppose you are referring to religious laws. It would constitute as murder under Christianity.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
yes a mind needs a host body. as such the person consists of both the mind & the body. the mind is still a requirement.
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iamrefreshed
Guest
Yes I noticed. Pretty soon you’ll be signing with a PHD after your namenotice that i added biotech & webster into my resume.
or maybe FOS?
Actually, since the ‘90 day rule’ belongs to you, I was asking is it murder to AgnosTheist?
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AgnosTheist
Guest
i really dont know about that. i hope not.Ok so the soul would only be in a formed mind (brain) ? if God forbid that person had an accident and their mind wasn’t functioning properly, would the soul be damaged too ?
i think no matter how damaged the brain is, as long as there is still an element of thought & memory, there is still a soul.
i think so.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
You know i only adapted that 90 day rule from the Catholic Romans.Actually, since the ‘90 day rule’ belongs to you, I was asking is it murder to AgnosTheist?
Before that i was considering a maximum of 2 months.anyway, you as pro-life, is there any circumstance that you would agree with abortion? like if there was an accident and the only way to save the woman’s life would be to abort?
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iamrefreshed
Guest
Thanks for asking Agnos. No there is no circumstance under which I would support abortion.You know i only adapted that 90 day rule from the Catholic Romans.
anyway, you as pro-life, is there any circumstance that you would agree with abortion? like if there was an accident and the only way to save the woman’s life would be to abort?
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notself
Guest
Doing is being. If you completely stop doing, you stop being.
We are not nouns, we are verbs.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
According to who?
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