Non-Catholic religions and abortion

[notself]

O course one can . Abortion is an abject evil that can never be jusified. War and Captial Punishment are not intrinsicly evil in and of themsleves. That is not only my view but the View of the Catholic Church.

I know you are going to disagree with this as claiming there is moral equivalenct between abortion and the other issues you mentioned is the prime tactic of those who rationalize supporting piliticans who aid and abette the slaughter of our children.

My point is that all killing is wrong. Too bad you and the Catholic Church do not agree.

 

[AgnosTheist]

So the divine can be true if there is really a God. The corollary of your statement … so in essence you have said nothing at all. You are amazingly consistent.

i agree, that statement said nothing at all. let me rephrase. my intent was to give the message that since i believe in a God that has no depictions, then he/she could be anyone, if there is a god. to say that this god is fictional would be to say that there is no God whatsoever.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

oh yes it is. what makes us human? is it our arms, our legs, our heart? our head? no its our mind that makes us human. a living human body without a human mind is just a zombie. its brain dead. its not a person anymore.

much less a mindless embryo.

mindless embryo? how do you know the embryo has no mind? many things make us human. does an infant, according to you have a mind? we Catholics believe that you don’t obtain reason until about 7, 8 or 9 years of age. does this mean under these rules you would allow infanticide?

AgnosTheist:

if you put religion into the mix, then I cannot argue with that. catholics believe that God grants the soul at the moment of conception.

whether or not we receive a mind at conception is debatable, but just the opportunity for the living creature to grow and be formed into an adult human being is enough for us to respect life. it’s not just human life Christians are called to respect, it’s all of God’s creation as we are the stewards of the Earth.

AgnosTheist:

as always, the presence of a mind. i agree with abortion only under limited conditions. the older the embryo becomes the more limits I see. if its too young (3 months or less), it doesnt have a mind and it should be ok to abort at will. After that its only ok if it threatens the life of the host.

Okay it’s been shown that an embryo can feel pain at less than three months of age. Is that okay? Does feeling pain (having a developed nervous system) make it okay to rip the living being from its mother’s womb?

 

[AgnosTheist]

mindless embryo? how do you know the embryo has no mind?

because a 1 day old embryo does not have a single brain cell.

whether or not we receive a mind at conception is debatable,

debatable only for christians who specifically believes that the spirit descends at the moment of concepcion.

Okay it’s been shown that an embryo can feel pain at less than three months of age. Is that okay? Does feeling pain (having a developed nervous system) make it okay to rip the living being from its mother’s womb?

i dont have any problem lowering the limits.

 

[estesbob]

i agree, that statement said nothing at all. let me rephrase. my intent was to give the message that since i believe in a God that has no depictions, then he/she could be anyone, if there is a god. to say that this god is fictional would be to say that there is no God whatsoever.

In your case it appears you believe he/she is you.

 

[AgnosTheist]

In your case it appears you believe he/she is you.

who knows? maybe one of us is God who self induced a temporary amnesia so that he could have more fun role playing as a plain human being. ah the mysteries of life.

 

[fierysword1920]

Everybody just quit talking to knucklehead agnostheist , he knows nothing of what he speaks about and is enjoying himself yanking your chains. He knows what he believes is wrong he just hopes he can come in here and get some sort of approval from us, or to turn us against the truth and think the way he does.
Just quit wasting your time good Christians and he will go away and try to bother other people somewhere else so he can try to find meaning in his life. Just forget him!

 

[AgnosTheist]

Everybody just quit talking to knucklehead agnostheist

LOL!

 

[notself]

LOL!

I’ll keep talking to you even though you are a knucklehead when it comes to abortion.

I am a knucklehead when it comes to God.

 

[Verisimilitude]

You are in denial. You appear to be smart enough to know that I know some biblical depictions of its God.

I should tell you a joke about a little dog and a man at a bus stop one day.

I dont recall you going into that detail. Even Valke2 saw your statement negatively which is why he advised you to show it to a priest.

Comprehension does not seem to be your strong point, but I am a bit more confident Valke2 knew of my intent though he took offense when none was intended.

 

[Jennifer123]

We are busy enough killing the people that are on this world already. If we can’t be concerned enough to address that problem, we’ll never be concerned enough to address the problem of abortion.

The wild devaluation of human life is linked to abortion and the contraceptive mentality. As long as there is abortion, there will be a cheapening of human life and dignity.

BTW - one of my close friends was in the exact predicament you described. She had her baby and gave it up for adoption. She now is a successful primary school teacher in Europe and has two adorable children. Preganancy is not a disease or disability - it is a fact of life. Contraceptives don’t always work. The inevitable result of sex is procreation. You have to be responsible for that.

 

[Jennifer123]

So I still lost a life then ?? Wow, that has made me kind of sad, as I was under the impression I hadnt as doctors told me there was no foetus present.
Oh well hey, it is up there with God, thanks for the link

Yes - you lost a child. I am so sorry. Know that nothing is without purpose in God’s Kingdom. God be with you.

 

[AgnosTheist]

The wild devaluation of human life is linked to abortion and the contraceptive mentality. As long as there is abortion, there will be a cheapening of human life and dignity.

just appreciate the fact that lives nowadays are a lot more valuable than in those days when the Catholic church still had a very strong influence on the world.

perhaps taking the opposite extreme (that even contraceptives are evil ) is a way to make up for all those religious wars and witch burnings.

 

[fierysword1920]

That is a really neat signature Jennifer, I like it a lot, I read what it says and it kinda breaks my heart when I think about it in that way. I have always believed that life started immediately when the sperm hits the egg or rather when God sends the soul to the womb. A Saint I read about once said that in some ways woman is superior to man because each womb is like a temple for God to reside in as he creates each individual life. Very awesome and sacred opinion by him, wish I could remember his name.

The wild devaluation of human life is linked to abortion and the contraceptive mentality. As long as there is abortion, there will be a cheapening of human life and dignity.

BTW - one of my close friends was in the exact predicament you described. She had her baby and gave it up for adoption. She now is a successful primary school teacher in Europe and has two adorable children. Preganancy is not a disease or disability - it is a fact of life. Contraceptives don’t always work. The inevitable result of sex is procreation. You have to be responsible for that.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I wonder if anyone could explain how exactly life is cheapened by abortion. I dont care about theories. I want to see direct impacts to society. Like how it affects crime rates & wars.

 

[wanner47]

I wonder if anyone could explain how exactly life is cheapened by abortion. I dont care about theories. I want to see direct impacts to society. Like how it affects crime rates & wars.

When we start devaluing one facet of human life, it’s a slipperly slope.

Look at the Holocaust. The Nazis passed a law saying Jews weren’t human and spent years spreading propaganda in order to indoctrinate the population with that mindset. Thus, the attempted genocide of the Jewish population was carried out and very nearly successful.

Same thing with abortion, to the point now where the Netherlands is considering legalizing infant euthanasia.

 

[AgnosTheist]

When we start devaluing one facet of human life, it’s a slipperly slope.

Look at the Holocaust. The Nazis passed a law saying Jews weren’t human and spent years spreading propaganda in order to indoctrinate the population with that mindset. Thus, the attempted genocide of the Jewish population was carried out and very nearly successful.

Same thing with abortion, to the point now where the Netherlands is considering legalizing infant euthanasia.

abortion has nothing to do with the holocaust. religious discrimination has more to do with it. .

 

[estesbob]

abortion has nothing to do with the holocaust. religious discrimination has more to do with it. .

A lot more have died in abortion mills than in the Holocaust.

Your posts here have been a perfect example of how abortion cheapens life. You claim that human life is disposable until certain requirments are met. The only difference between that and what the Nazis did is a minor disagreement on what requirements for protection must be met You beleive it should be based on stage of deveopment -they based it on genetic makeup. Both are equally supportable once one decides not all human life should be protected.

 

[Jennifer123]

just appreciate the fact that lives nowadays are a lot more valuable than in those days when the Catholic church still had a very strong influence on the world.

perhaps taking the opposite extreme (that even contraceptives are evil ) is a way to make up for all those religious wars and witch burnings.

This is blatant Catholic-baiting and shows your true lack of knowledge.
Most of the loss of life in the past century were the fault of atheistic regimes, not “religion”.

 

[AgnosTheist]

The only difference between that and what the Nazis did is a minor disagreement on what requirements for protection must be met.

And thats a world of difference. JMCrae even agreed that serial killers dont deserve to live. That means he has requirements too. Your flawed logic puts him on the same boat as the Nazis.