Non-Catholics, a question

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kalt said:
In reading another thread, I see that some non-Catholics who post here are annoyed at the vigor with which Catholics defend the faith.

I’m wondering, were you surprised (when you first came here) that Catholics defend the faith? Were you surprised that Catholics aren’t really that open to the evangelical efforts of those outside the CC? Did you expect Catholics to be more willing to compromise on doctrine?
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It’s not the vigor with which RC apologetics is waged that annoy me. That is to be expected!
What annoys me is the use of non-sequiturs, circular reasonings, statements that they demand that everyone accept at face value, etc, and the wording of those as if they were self-evident. And this annoys me, because:

1: Either those apologists think their opponents (i.e. non-RCs) dumber than the average streetlight

or

2: They really believe that they are making sense.

And in both cases, my time is wasted…
 
Mickey said:
Exactly! I have said this dozens of times on various threads. We are save by grace through faith in Christ and our good works are the fruit of that faith. The works cannot be separated from the faith. You cannot say that we are saved by “faith alone”. Yet many of the protestants continue to argue. Do you know why?
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I tried to see if there was anything here I disagreed with…there wasn’t!
đź‘Ť
 
LutheranDK said:
It’s not the vigor with which RC apologetics is waged that annoy me. That is to be expected!
What annoys me is the use of non-sequiturs, circular reasonings, statements that they demand that everyone accept at face value, etc, and the wording of those as if they were self-evident. And this annoys me, because:

1: Either those apologists think their opponents (i.e. non-RCs) dumber than the average streetlight

or

2: They really believe that they are making sense.

And in both cases, my time is wasted…
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Do you have specific examples?
 
Mickey said:
It is not my “opinion” my brother in Christ. You do not offend me.

It is Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. It is truth.

God bless you. 🙂
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No, it is what you have been brought to think and believe is the truth. Big difference.
 
Sellers1 said:
Wasting your time patting each other on the back is accomplishing nothing in the way of your limited understanding of the truth.🙂
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How do you know your denomination’s interpretation of the bible is true? how can you prove the other interpretation’s wrong?

how can you know what is the truth without the pillar and foundation of the truth?
 
kalt said:
Your analogy about fire and smoke doesn’t work, because smoke is a product of the burning process. When the tree is burned down, smoke is one of the products. The tree doesn’t disappear but is converted to something else.

We’ll use the analogy anyway.

Remember the fact that fire doesn’t always produce smoke and that faith without works is dead.

Fire (faith) without smoke (works) will not save you. Faith (fire) must be accompanied by smoke (good works). Saying “Lord”(being on fire) isn’t enough, no matter how much you believe (burn).
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You don’t understand it because you won’t. There are many reasons for this with guilt being one of the big ones. Salvation is a gift that you cannot earn and cannot purchase. When you truly understand and experience the grace of God, you will know that. Your faith in Jesus cannot grow until you realize that it is he who works within you. It is not possible to live like Christ by your own efforts. It’s all about faith.
 
SimonArizona said:
How do you know your denomination’s interpretation of the bible is true? how can you prove the other interpretation’s wrong?

how can you know what is the truth without the pillar and foundation of the truth?
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How can you know it? Do you believe that it does not exist outside the walls of your church? Prove that the one holy catholic and apostolic church stops with you.
 
Sellers1 said:
You don’t understand it because you won’t. There are many reasons for this with guilt being one of the big ones. Salvation is a gift that you cannot earn and cannot purchase. Amen. When you truly understand and experience the grace of God, you will know that. -]Your faith in Jesus cannot grow/-] until you realize that it is he who works within you. It is not possible to live like Christ by your own efforts. It’s all about -]faith/-]Grace.
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SimonArizona:
your defacing of a post responding to another poster is not appreciated. It’s brash and disrespectful.
 
SimonArizona said:
How do you know your denomination’s interpretation of the bible is true? how can you prove the other interpretation’s wrong?

how can you know what is the truth without the pillar and foundation of the truth?
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How do you know what the pillar and foundation of the truth is?

(Are we collecting questions? Sounds like fun.)
 
Sellers1 said:
How can you know it? Do you believe that it does not exist outside the walls of your church? Prove that the one holy catholic and apostolic church stops with you.
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not walls,* communion* with Christ’s Church. Jesus established his Church that the “Spirit of Truth leads into all truth.” It is through sacred tradition that the true interpretation of the sacred scriptures are upheld and magnified. This is found in the lineage of an unbroken line of successors from the apostles who laid on hands, who in turn laid on hands all the way down to today. The Bible says that the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth. It couldonly mean the Church that Christ himself established, promised to lead into all truth, gave it his authority and promised his presence “all days until the end.” the Church that hell will never prevail against. and it hasn’t. the Church has fulfilled her mission to bring the Gospel to every shore.
 
SimonArizona said:
not walls,* communion* with Christ’s Church. Jesus established his Church that the “Spirit of Truth leads into all truth.” It is through sacred tradition that the true interpretation of the sacred scriptures are upheld and magnified. This is found in the lineage of an unbroken line of successors from the apostles who laid on hands, who in turn laid on hands all the way down to today. The Bible says that the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth. It couldonly mean the Church that Christ himself established, promised to lead into all truth, gave it his authority and promised his presence “all days until the end.” the Church that hell will never prevail against. and it hasn’t. the Church has fulfilled her mission to bring the Gospel to every shore.
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Blah blah blah (with due respect). The robotic response to something you cannot prove is very played out.
 
Sellers1 said:
your -]defacing/-] Correcting a post responding to another poster is not appreciated.
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đź‘Ť

It is by Grace alone that we are saved, not faith alone. Faith alone is not found in the bible except in James “see then how a man is not justified by faith alone.”
 
SimonArizona said:
đź‘Ť

It is by Grace alone that we are saved, not faith alone. Faith alone is not found in the bible except in James “see then how a man is not justified by faith alone.”
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Your misconception of what St. James says has no bearing on what St. Paul says.🙂
 
Sellers1 said:
Your misconception of what St. James says has no bearing on what St. Paul says.🙂
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“Christian grace is a fundamental idea of the Christian religion, the pillar on which, by a special ordination of God, the majestic edifice of Christianity rests in its entirety. Among the three fundamental ideas—sin, redemption, and grace—grace plays the part of the means, indispensable and Divinely ordained, to effect the redemption from sin through Christ and to lead men to their eternal destiny in heaven.”
 
Sellers1 said:
You don’t understand it because you won’t. There are many reasons for this with guilt being one of the big ones. Salvation is a gift that you cannot earn and cannot purchase. When you truly understand and experience the grace of God, you will know that. Your faith in Jesus cannot grow until you realize that it is he who works within you. It is not possible to live like Christ by your own efforts. It’s all about faith.
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Catholics don’t believe that they can “earn” salvation. Faith without works is dead. On grace - see my earlier post, just above this one.

Your ignorance of what Catholics believe is deep.
 
Mickey said:
You are welcome Tomster. And thank you also for your excellent posts! đź‘Ť
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It is interesting how our esteemed adversaries think nothing of giving us their fallible interpretations of Scripture while at the same denying Sacred Tradition. I guess they expect us to accept their fallible opinions as Gospel Truth. They don’t understand that all they are giving us their own traditions which COULD be correct but then again they COULD be and usually are wrong.
 
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