Non-Catholics and Communion

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Deacon:

Trying to figure you out - Are you a "non-denominational Roman Catholic. A new denomination completely ???
Roman Catholic who does not attend Roman Catholic services
Are you a Catholic who attends a Protestant Evangelical or Pentecostal church?
Non-denominational. Well actually it’s supposed to be. But 85% of our congregation are also Roman Catholic. So I don’t know what you call it. Probably Roman Catholics who get more from this church.
Are you a Roman Catholic who attends a Roman Catholic church that considers itself Catholic although it is not recognized to be in union with Rome by your local bishop and/or the Vatican?
No answered above.
You see, this thread is on the Non-Catholic Religion thread. Ergo, the confusion.
Does that mean only non Roman Catholics can post?? Not being flip just curious.
I ask because you seem to be a very “Protestant” Roman Catholic. I was going to reply to a couple of your original posts because what you said seemed to be quite condescending or arrogant. Typical of the criticisms of fundamental protestants I commonly encounter. Problem was, there was something in your words that made me wait, because something wasn’t quite “right”. Now you’re having said that you’re Roman Catholic in spite of your profile indicating that your religion is 'non-denominational, causes me to understand you “logic” a little better.
Was I condescending to Protestants or Roman Catholics??
Would appreciate some enlightenment.
I was born and raised Roman Catholic. Spent sooo many years in the Roman Catholic church. Fell away for various reasons. If your curious I can share. I prayed to GOD to lead my family to a church that would edify our beliefs. We found a non-denominational church that we absolutely love. Like I said above 85% of the congregation are Roman Catholic.
 
I was born and raised Roman Catholic. Spent sooo many years in the Roman Catholic church. Fell away for various reasons. If your curious I can share. I prayed to GOD to lead my family to a church that would edify our beliefs. We found a non-denominational church that we absolutely love. Like I said above 85% of the congregation are Roman Catholic.
Then you should refrain from receiving Holy Communion in the Cathoilc Church, out of respect for our beliefs.
 
“reteeks21, do you believe that sex before marriage is a good thing that should be allowed?”

I find it rather insulting that an adult would ask me something like that. What in the world does that have to do with anything.

And for those choosing to make smart comments about the person in the woods with his Bible, I think you know what I mean. I joined these forums hoping to find some common ground, but it’s rather upsetting to encounter Catholics who can only respond with rude and crass comments. This is exactly why so many have issues with Catholics when all some of them do is respond in such ways. Thanks so much for an intelligent conversation.
 
Then you should refrain from receiving Holy Communion in the Cathoilc Church, out of respect for our beliefs.
I place a higher emphasis on GOD then some man-made beliefs. I will take communion in a Roman Catholic church whenever I attend out of respect for GOD. Unless the Holy Spirit leads me another way. If I have to choose between respecting GOD or the Roman Catholic church guess who I choose. Need I answer?? How about Roman Catholics who receive at Protestant churches? Do you tell them no don’t receive there?? Do you see how condescending that sounds??
 
Given some of the comments I’ve seen here I would agree. It’s almost as if one side hopes the other goes to hell so that they can make the proverbial statement “I TOLD YA”.
First, let me emphasize that I do not hold to this opinion. It is absolutely wrong to be judgmental and to be the kind of person to say “I told you so”. I pray for the salvation of everyone, and I firmly believe, as the Catholic Church does, that it is possible for non-Catholics to go to heaven. Please understand that I’m not trying to be judgmental, I’m simply trying to follow the teachings of my faith to the best of my ability.

As an historian, I always like to look at the evidence, and the preponderance of evidence is that Holy Communion has always been at the core of Christianity. It’s importance is attested to by most of the Early Church Fathers. In fact, it is probably the point upon which the early church MOST agreed.
I said I thought it was a sin to deny. So then explain the Priests who don’t strictly enforce this. Explain Roman Catholics who come to our church and receive. Explain any Roman Catholic who attends Protestant churches and receives. Explain Protestants who attend Catholic services and receive.
There have indeed been troubling developments in the Church since Vatican II, and this is among the most serious. I’ve heard lots of explanations for why Church attendance is down so much, but the most convincing to me is poor catechesis. The vast majority of Catholics have become “cultural” Catholics without really practicing their faith. They’re not bad people, but they fall into two groups. One group has been poorly instructed in the faith, and simply doesn’t know what the Church actually teaches. Many Catholics don’t even KNOW that we teach the Real Presence, and that’s sad. Others are shocked when they learn what we really teach. The massive decline in people going to confession or refraining from communion when in a state of mortal sin is another serious development that often goes along with this.

The other group knows what the Church teaches, and chooses to disregard some teachings as the “traditions of men”, assuming that they can be wrong. A core belief of Catholicism is the absolute guarantee by the Holy Spirit that Dogmas are correct, and cannot be changed. Now, obviously, not everything is a dogma. Certain traditions, like priestly celibacy, are INDEED traditions that may be altered. That said, Dogmas are non-negotiable, like the Trinity, and the Immaculate Conception. They must be believed, or one is essentially rejecting Catholicism.

As often happens with Church councils (Vatican II in this case), it takes time for the changes to take effect (often 100 or more years). Usually, when change occurs, it happens like a pendulum. The implementation will overcorrect the original problem, and inevitably swing a bit too far, requiring an eventual correction to bring things back into line. We are now seeing the pendulum swing back under Benedict XVI, who intends to correct abuses that have occurred when ecumenism has gone too far. It may have been wrong to keep people from EVER attending a Protestant church for any reason (even a funeral) before Vatican II. However, priests that violate the rules of the Catholic Church by so casually allowing communion are doing untold damage to the Church. People assume that these errors are ok, and it further destroys the catechesis. Fortunately, the generation of priests that are being produced now are tending to be extremely conservative, since more liberal elements are not interested any longer in becoming priests (for a variety of reasons). Many have turned away (indeed, to Protestantism sometimes). For examples of how the pendulum is swinging back, note the recent release of the Motu Proprio releasing the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, the directive from the pope on the Catholic definition of “Church” (and why Protestants are simply “ecclesial communities” because they do not have apostolic succession and the Real Presence), and the reaffirmation the other day of the need for Jews to convert in the now-modified Good Friday prayer. We’ve also had the recent ad orientum Mass in the ORDINARY form by the pope a few weeks ago, emphasizing the sacrificial nature of the Mass. As this old, 1960s generation of liberal priests dies out, and is replaced by the more doctrinally strict youth, we may indeed see a tightening up of the church. Pope Benedict himself has said that sadly, it may be necessary for the church to shrink to survive. A smaller, but more faithful church may preserve Catholicism from fragmenting in the way that denominations like the Anglicans are right now.
 
Then you should refrain from receiving Holy Communion in the Cathoilc Church, out of respect for our beliefs.
JMcrae I find it interesting that you are a convert to Roman Catholicism and present such an arrogant position. It seems that most Roman Catholics who have grown up that way are much less offensive. It amazes me how people who convert all the sudden think they can stand up and say respect our beliefs. As if you had these beliefs your whole life. Kind of like when someone becomes a Jew and says, do you know what my people have been through. It’s like “What”??
 
“reteeks21, do you believe that sex before marriage is a good thing that should be allowed?”

I find it rather insulting that an adult would ask me something like that. What in the world does that have to do with anything.
I think she was trying to make the analogy that receiving Holy Communion in a church that you are not (yet) a member of is analogous to having sex outside of (or before) marriage.

To be in Holy Communion with the Catholic Church is in a sense to be “married” to it; this is why children wear wedding-like garments for their First Holy Communion. (Which they don’t receive until after a period of full instruction and spiritual purification - we don’t even let our own kids receive Holy Communion without being members of the Church and in a state of grace; why should we change the rules for you? 😉 )
And for those choosing to make smart comments about the person in the woods with his Bible, I think you know what I mean.
Well, now you know that Catholics don’t believe in “lone ranger” Christianity. 😉
 
JMcrae I find it interesting that you are a convert to Roman Catholicism and present such an arrogant position. It seems that most Roman Catholics who have grown up that way are much less offensive. It amazes me how people who convert all the sudden think they can stand up and say respect our beliefs. As if you had these beliefs your whole life. Kind of like when someone becomes a Jew and says, do you know what my people have been through. It’s like “What”??
How about this, then: Please respect that I went through years of RCIA (in my case, 17 years) to gain the privilege of receiving Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. I did not just waltz in one day, proclaim myself “Catholic” and start receiving Holy Communion the same day. 🤷

And by the way, they’re “our” beliefs because I believe them, too.
 
Really? Then why is your Church the only one to have monks who live in solitude? And I am sorry that WE are worthy according to you. And by the way, no one asked you to change your rules for US. I never even brought that up. I guess I could complain about the sex comment more, but you probably wouldn’t care. I’d prefer to have a conversation with someone that doesn’t speak to others as if they are beneath them. I started this thread to have a decent conversation, not for insults to be thrown around.
 
I place a higher emphasis on GOD then some man-made beliefs.
Except Catholics believe their beliefs to be protected by the Holy Spirit. What “man-made beliefs” do you take objection to within Catholicism, besides closed Communion (which is supported by the early church)?
I will take communion in a Roman Catholic church whenever I attend out of respect for GOD.
As a baptized Catholic, that is your right, as long as you are not in a state of mortal sin
Unless the Holy Spirit leads me another way. If I have to choose between respecting GOD or the Roman Catholic church guess who I choose. Need I answer??
Nope. They’re synonymous, in the sense that the Holy Spirit speaks through the Catholic Church. The Holy Spirit ensures that the Catholic Church does not fall into error (doctrinally). Although it’s members are not impeccible (meaning that they can sin and fail), it can teach no error.
How about Roman Catholics who receive at Protestant churches? Do you tell them no don’t receive there??
Yes, we do.
Do you see how condescending that sounds??
Um… no? :confused: Why would I try to emphasize my unity with a group that I believed to have serious errors (or misconceptions) in their beliefs about Christianity? Am I condescending when I politely refuse to attend a service at a Hindu temple or a Mosque because I simply believe that they are in error?
 
Really? Then why is your Church the only one to have monks who live in solitude? .
Besides the Eastern Orthodox? And the Oriental Orthodox? And the Assyrian Church of the East? And Buddhists, of both the Hinayana and Ramayana branches? And some Sufi mystics in Islam…
 
I’d prefer to have a conversation with someone that doesn’t speak to others as if they are beneath them. I started this thread to have a decent conversation, not for insults to be thrown around.
Agreed. Maybe we should all take a deep breath here and calm down for a minute. I’m sure we can all be civil. Please keep the conversation polite, everyone! 👍
 
Really? Then why is your Church the only one to have monks who live in solitude?
They aren’t “lone rangers” - they are supported by their community, which is where they go to Mass and receive Holy Communion - not by themselves, but with their brother monks.
And by the way, no one asked you to change your rules for US.
No, you just want us to wink at you and not complain while you break them, or at least that’s the impression I’m getting from you guys. 😦
 
Whether or not certain Catholics are faithful to a teaching is not a way to judge the teachings validity!!! That’s laughable.
It’s more laughable and yes arrogant as well to think that you can sit back and believe what you are teaching is 100% right. When in fact it may not be.
Catholics disobey their faith as do other Christians. All Christians sin and disobey God. By your logic that means that God Himself is wrong in telling us how to live simply because people don’t follow His commands.
Actually your logic doesn’t support that at all. You think you may be teaching GOD’s commands. It’s really an interpretation of what you think GOD is teaching. Your claim is that the Roman Catholic church is infallible in it’s teachings. So your assuming that she is always right and therefore everyone else is always wrong. I’m a little more diplomatic than that.
You claim to be Catholic yet you say that you attend a non-denominational Church? I don’t understand. So you walked away from communion with Rome…then why shouldn’t you partake in other communions? Go ahead. You gave up communion with Rome, that’s your choice. YOU changed your beliefs! That doesn’t mean the Church ought to change its teaching.
I don’t think I changed my beliefs. I came to the realilzation that maybe Rome wasn’t always correct.
The priests and Catholic laity you describe are either acting on their own conscience and trying to best apply their understanding of God’s will or they are giving in to social or other pressures. They are responsible for their actions. Likewise the Church is responsible for the proper distribution of the Eucharist, and this has always meant closed Communion.
Closed maybe for non-believers of Christ.
You say that the Catholic position is “judgmental” - but you too are taking a “judgmental” position in saying that Catholics SIN by withholding Communion.
I said I believe it is a sin. If I was passing judgement I would say something entirely different.
You sound like a spiritually confused person. I’ll pray for you.
As I will pray for you my Brother. But I’m not spiritually confused. To the contrary I’ve never been more spiritually enlightened. Praise the Lord.
 
I made that comment about monks because it is obvious that the YOU comments were directed at protestants, so Muslims and other traditions shouldn’t even be brought into it. You know exactly what I mean by my statements. The point I was trying to make was that if you don’t believe in lone-ranger Christianity, then why do you belong to a that allows it to happen?

*Let me just add that I have no problem with people choosing to live a life of solitude. So if you are going to try and insult to injury, I’d just prefer to stop having this conversation. It is obvious that Catholics think it is intrusive and disrespectful for protestants to partake in Catholic communion, and that it is all you needed to say. It just seems funny to me that I simply want to have an ecuminical dialogue, and instead it is made clear to me how protestants are wrong. Thanks.
 
How about this, then: Please respect that I went through years of RCIA (in my case, 17 years) to gain the privilege of receiving Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. I did not just waltz in one day, proclaim myself “Catholic” and start receiving Holy Communion the same day. 🤷

And by the way, they’re “our” beliefs because I believe them, too.
I guess that’s where I differ from you then. Why in the world would you have to wait 17 years to take communion in the Roman Catholic church. If you had waltzed in as a believer in Christ then who am I to deny you. Obviously you have a strong Faith. But it seems that since now you are a Roman Catholic you look down on others. In reading your link I can identify with the struggles you had in your previous church and I feel for your friend who seems to be searching desperately for something. I pray you can help her. But your seem to imply that the only way is the Roman Catholic way.

Now understand that the same dilemmas you experienced in your church are similar to the same ones I had within the Roman Catholic church. I prayed and prayed and prayed and GOD answered my prayers. The same delight if you will that you have now for the Roman Catholic church is the same delight I have outside the Roman Catholic church. I can introduce you to many others who feel the same way. Does that mean you should leave the Roman Catholic church?? NO. GOD put you there because he knew that’s where you would grow the most spiritually. As Paul writes in his letter, it’s not important who plants the seed because GOD ultimately will make you grow.

PEACE.
 
Let me ask a question, deacon_d, in all seriousness. How would you define a Christian? As in, what are the minimum requirements necessary for one to call themselves Christian?

With regard to that, what role would the Nicene Creed play in that answer? Are those basic statements of faith, as defined by the Catholic Church, in error? (In other words, are they “traditions of men”?)
 
I guess that’s where I differ from you then. Why in the world would you have to wait 17 years to take communion in the Roman Catholic church.
Because I wasn’t a Catholic in full communion with the Church, yet.
If you had waltzed in as a believer in Christ then who am I to deny you.
Who, indeed? I don’t think you were in charge, that day. I know you’re not in charge today. 😉
 
Except Catholics believe their beliefs to be protected by the Holy Spirit. What “man-made beliefs” do you take objection to within Catholicism, besides closed Communion (which is supported by the early church)?
Well that would take this disussion a whole different way and would probably exhaust our fingers from all the typing. I’ll just say this. The Holy Spirit does not speak solely to the Roman Catholic church. That wreaks of Gnosticism. Why don’t Roman Catholics get that. When we are baptized the Holy Spirit fills us all and speaks to us all. That’s why Jesus said I will not leave you alone, I will leave you a helper in the Holy Spirit. Not I will leave you a helper, the Roman Catholic church. The Holy Spirit guides us all.
As a baptized Catholic, that is your right, as long as you are not in a state of mortal sin
There’s a man made law again. Where does this come from?? And please don’t cite Paul’s letter to the Corinthians.
Nope. They’re synonymous, in the sense that the Holy Spirit speaks through the Catholic Church. The Holy Spirit ensures that the Catholic Church does not fall into error (doctrinally). Although it’s members are not impeccible (meaning that they can sin and fail), it can teach no error.
Where do you get this?? Please show me the exact scripture this is drived from.
Yes, we do.
So what do you say to those that still receive in other non-RC churches. Do you say you’re in big trouble with GOD? I don’t get it.
Um… no? :confused: Why would I try to emphasize my unity with a group that I believed to have serious errors (or misconceptions) in their beliefs about Christianity? Am I condescending when I politely refuse to attend a service at a Hindu temple or a Mosque because I simply believe that they are in error?
I don’t believe that is the same thing. Your belief regarding serious errors is also held by Protestants towards Roman Catholics. So who’s right and who’s wrong?? Since you say it is your opinion consider that your opinion could be in serious error.

Do Catholics think Protestants are 100% wrong? No. Do Protestants think Roman Catholics are 100% wrong? No.

Although there are extremists on both sides.
 
Oh, and who “consecrates” the bread and wine at your non-denominational church of 3500 people?

Just wondering…
The use of quotation marks above shows a lack of respect, in my opinion. You don’t have to agree with something in order to respect it.
 
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