NON CATHOLICS - Have the these forums helped you convert or consider converting?

[Unfinished]

Alfie:

Why do you want to economically support a town that was built by organized crime? The hoodlums still run Vegas.

Gerbils running on wheels power the lights as well.

Vegas is a business. America runs on business. Half the programs in America today probably come from the taxes they get from Nevada.

The stock market is a gamble. Lets all stop investing in the stock market. Oh wait, we have already seen what happens if the stock market crashes.

 

[Church_Militant]

Alfie:

The protestant preachers spoke out against alcohol and closed down some of the bars. That is what attracted some of the women to the protestant church.

This may sound like a really cheap shot to you but I think some Protestants turn Catholic because there is no real condemnation in the Catholic church concerning the use of alcohol. Alcohol is an epidemic in this country and when preachers try to stop it in their churches their members don’t want to hear it. They want to go out and drink like everyone else and that is very sad. The same thing could be said of gambling and protestants. Gambling isn’t condemned in the Catholic church either. Yet, Catholics will claim their religion is more difficult to adhere to. Try not drinking in this society. Talk about frantic attacks. Fundalmentalists attacks are a drop in the bucket compared to the remarks you will get if you refuse to drink.

Give us a Biblical basis for the condemnation of alcohol and gambling.

I don’t think that you can.

 

[Alfie]

Unfinished:

I can spent 7.50 on a movie, or I can spend 7.50 on a slot machine. What is the difference? I spent 7.50 to entertain myself. Just so long as I realize that it is just entertainment. If I was selling my house to gamble with the money, then THAT is a problem, not the gambling itself…

Since you do not know the difference please mail me a check for $7.50 and I will donate it to my church.

 

[Alfie]

Church Militant:

Give us a Biblical basis for the condemnation of alcohol and gambling.

I don’t think that you can.

You are in good company if you approve of gambling. That puts you in the category with the men who gambled for the clothes of Jesus.You should be very proud.

 

[Unfinished]

Alfie:

Since you do not know the difference please mail me a check for $7.50 and I will donate it to my church.

I’d rather give it to a Catholic charity, one that doesn’t condem things that Jesus Christ himself took part in. Drinking, for example.

Better yet - explain the difference to me. Between two moral forms of entertainment. In fact, gambling is often morally safer then movies these days. If I choose to play slots, I am not subjected to nudity and vulgar language. That is not the case with most movies.

So is gambling better than going to movies? I know you just don’t read the Bible ALL day, what am I allowed to do? What is the difference?

 

[adrift]

Alfie:

You are in good company if you approve of gambling. That puts you in the category with the men who gambled for the clothes of Jesus.You should be very proud.

It also put him in the company of a the Apostles who cast lots to replace Judas.

Now that is said please answer

Give us a Biblical basis for the condemnation of alcohol and gambling.

 

[javelin]

Alfie:

You are in good company if you approve of gambling. That puts you in the category with the men who gambled for the clothes of Jesus.You should be very proud.

That was not very charitable. The comparison is completely unwarranted.

If you are so convicted that games of chance and alcohol are evil and wrong, you must be able to prove such from the Bible, your sole rule of faith.

We’re waiting…

Peace,
javelin

BTW, no one ever said moderately drinking or occasional controlled gambling were morally good. We’re simply arguing against your position that they are morally evil. In fact, the Church views them (AFAIK) as morally neutral. It is only what a person does with them that makes them good or evil; they are not intrinsically morally evil, or intrinsically morally good.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Alfie:

This may sound like a really cheap shot to you but I think some Protestants turn Catholic because there is no real condemnation in the Catholic church concerning the use of alcohol. Alcohol is an epidemic in this country and when preachers try to stop it in their churches their members don’t want to hear it.

Actually, I did more drinking while an Evangelical than I do now. I did a lot more things as an Evangelical than I do now. And I was not alone, not by a long shot. So your theory is baseless, and arrogant and presumptuous.

And, as usual, the prescription for excessive behavior is legalism. That seems to be the Fundalmentalist’s solution to human failure. It’s not what Christ’s message was about. He taught freedom, from the inside out, not the outside in. That is a matter of virtue, which is aquired through grace of the Holy Spirit and our co-operation with that grace.

 

[jim1130]

Alfie:

This may sound like a really cheap shot to you but I think some Protestants turn Catholic because there is no real condemnation in the Catholic church concerning the use of alcohol.

I would like to see evidence supporting this claim.

Alfie:

Alcohol is an epidemic in this country and when preachers try to stop it in their churches their members don’t want to hear it. They want to go out and drink like everyone else and that is very sad.

Drinking is not a sin. Drunkedness is a sin. “Drinking as a sin” is a man-made doctrine. Many people drink alcohol in moderation.

Alfie:

The same thing could be said of gambling and protestants. Gambling isn’t condemned in the Catholic church either. Yet, Catholics will claim their religion is more difficult to adhere to. Try not drinking in this society. Talk about frantic attacks. Fundalmentalists attacks are a drop in the bucket compared to the remarks you will get if you refuse to drink.

Why do you refuse to drink? I know people who choose not to drink for a variety of reasons. Some are recovering alcoholics. Others just do not like the taste of alcohol. Others consider themselves athletes. For those whose reason borders on sanctimonious piety, that the fact they do not drink makes them better than someone else, I have little tolerance.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Jeanette L:

So your theory is baseless, and arrogant and presumptuous.

Alfie-

And that was a bit uncharitable on my part, I apologize.

 

[jim1130]

Alfie:

What type of people usually gamble and go to bars and drink? The same ones that are having sex outside of marriage.

And what is your evidence to support this claim? Do people who gamble naturally go to bars and drink? Or are the two mutually exclusive?

 

[Alfie]

Unfinished:

Gerbils running on wheels power the lights as well.

Vegas is a business. America runs on business. Half the programs in America today probably come from the taxes they get from Nevada.

The stock market is a gamble. Lets all stop investing in the stock market. Oh wait, we have already seen what happens if the stock market crashes.

I invest in stock because there is an actual real live company that can earn money. It is a proven fact that Vegas rigs a lot of their machines. You know the old saying “there is a sucker born every minute”. Even if it isn’t rigged I have better odds of becoming a millionaire from my stocks than you have, winning 100 dollars on a scratch off lottery ticket. Do you think I am gullible enough to believe that you are only going to spend $7.50 on a slot machine? Ignorance is bliss! Just send me the money.

And don’t forget about all of the immoral shows with naked women in them and all of the prostitution.Your gambling money is supporting those two professions.

 

[Church_Militant]

Alfie:

You are in good company if you approve of gambling. That puts you in the category with the men who gambled for the clothes of Jesus.You should be very proud.

Another cheapshot!

Just because one chooses to gamble from time to time in no way equates to being like the men who (fulfilled messianic prophecy) gambled for Our Lord’s clothing at the foot of the cross.

You dodge the whole scriptural issue by not even attempting to show us that ther is any Biblical injunction against these things.what’s the matter Alfie? Did you assert something else that isn’t taught in the Word of God?

I’m confused I thought you were a “Bible Christian” that takes everything from the Word of God and would never teach anything that wasn’t in there.

As you said the other day. “splain yourself”?

 

[jim1130]

Alfie:

I invest in stock because there is an actual real live company that can earn money.

Yes, all businesses and their stocks are legitimate. No insider trading, ever! See Enron.

Alfie:

It is a proven fact that Vegas rigs a lot of their machines.

What documentation do you have to support this claim?

Alfie:

You know the old saying “there is a sucker born every minute”.

Which is why, I suppose, people become Protestants.

Alfie:

Even if it isn’t rigged I have better odds of becoming a millionaire from my stocks than you have, winning 100 dollars on a scratch off lottery ticket. Do you think I am gullible enough to believe that you are only going to spend $7.50 on a slot machine?

If you cannot participate in the event (slot machines, lottery, etc.) responsibly then do not participate.

Alfie:

Ignorance is bliss!

You do a beautiful job of reinforcing this point with each and every post.

Alfie:

And don’t forget about all of the immoral shows with naked women in them and all of the prostitution.Your gambling money is supporting those two professions.

This actually would have credibility if not for the manner of your previous comments.

 

[Church_Militant]

Alfie:

And don’t forget about all of the immoral shows with naked women in them and all of the prostitution.Your gambling money is supporting those two professions.

Assumptions are always unwise…

You assume they will partake in some immoral activity and that the money they spend will go to immoral ends. Do you KNOW that?

No! You cannot! Therefore you have judged a fellow believer unjustly and I rebuke you for it, as per Matthew 18.

You supposedly love us Catholics…
1st Corinthians 13

1: If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

2: And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3: If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4: Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful;
5: it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
6: it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.
7: Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8: Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
9: For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;
10: but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.
11: When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
12: For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.
13: So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love

 

[Unfinished]

Alfie:

I invest in stock because there is an actual real live company that can earn money. It is a proven fact that Vegas rigs a lot of their machines. You know the old saying “there is a sucker born every minute”. Even if it isn’t rigged I have better odds of becoming a millionaire from my stocks than you have, winning 100 dollars on a scratch off lottery ticket. Do you think I am gullible enough to believe that you are only going to spend $7.50 on a slot machine? Ignorance is bliss! Just send me the money.

And don’t forget about all of the immoral shows with naked women in them and all of the prostitution.Your gambling money is supporting those two professions.

Who said I go there to get rich? I am going to have a good time with my buddy. I may lose money, I may break even. It is my money to spend, I worked for it, I went to war and got my combat pay, I will spend it on what I choose.

Like I said, I am a grown man. I will choose not to go to those shows, nor will I spend time with hookers. Neither will my buddy, cause he is a good Catholic with common sense.

Does it make SENSE that God himself, JESUS CHRIST, would drink wine, then turn around and condem everyone for doing it? NO. To say otherwise is saying that God has no common sense. He invented common sense!

And they say there is freedom in the Protestant churches! More like giving up the jackpot for some change in your pocket.

 

[jim1130]

Church Militant:

Give us a Biblical basis for the condemnation of alcohol and gambling.

I don’t think that you can.

Alfie:

You are in good company if you approve of gambling. That puts you in the category with the men who gambled for the clothes of Jesus.You should be very proud.

Church Militant has always demonstrated a thorough knowledge and understanding of the Bible and Catholicism. Whenever challenged, CM is able to present documentation and chapter and verses to support the position. CM consistently exhibits patience and restraint even though some people choose to test CM.

You, on the other hand, rather than present your position with logic and reason, supported by documentation and chapters and verses, resort to immature insults that reveal the abysmal level of your ignorance. If you are representative of the type of member of your “church” then I am truly scared with the type of poison spat into your minds.

 

[Alfie]

jim1130:

Yes, all businesses and their stocks are legitimate. No insider trading, ever! See Enron

I don’t own Enron stock. You do know that there are ways people can research stock before they buy any in order to see which ones have the best chance of earning money? Can you do that with a slot machine or do you use ESP?

 

[Unfinished]

Alfie:

I don’t own Enron stock. You do know that there are ways people can research stock before they buy any in order to see which ones have the best chance of earning money? Can you do that with a slot machine or do you use ESP?

You do know that there are morally sound people who don’t succumb to satan just buy putting five dollars in a slot machine, right?

You are aware there are people who can protect thier souls by not allowing thier eyes to see immoral things?

I am reminded of the time Father Corapi went into a crack house to save someone’s life. Just cause he went in there doesn’t mean he became a crack head.

 

[Alfie]

Unfinished:

And they say there is freedom in the Protestant churches! More like giving up the jackpot for some change in your pocket.

I enjoy classical and all kinds of music, opera, white water rafting, museums, art shows, craft shows, Buell Planetarium, golf, tennis, camping, etc. There are hundreds of other nice, moral things I can do. I am not living in a straight jacket by any means.

PS. Someday I would like to parachute out of a plane.