Non-Catholics: When you hear Catholics equated to Satan, does it bother you?

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DLClark said:
It is strong language but you must ask, what evidence does he have to support such a claim. Make a statement like he did does not mean he hates Catholics as a group of people. You will never hear that come out of his mouth because he does not hate anyone. He has a problem with what the religion teaches. He has a problem justifying what this religious group teaches in light of what the Bible says. That is all. Pastor MacArthur is a very loving man. He is just doing what 2 Tim 4:1-5; Jude 3; Col. 2 says to do.
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My statement was directed at anyone who would claim that catholics are equated to satanists. I haven’t personally seen, read, or otherwise been exposed to any of Mr. MacArthur’s opinions, but anyone who would equate catholicism to satanic worship is ignorant of the faith.

Further, I would challenge any protestant to find more physical evidence of Christ in a protestant church than is found in the mass. Afterall, why would satan want to be in a church during the celebration of Christ’s death and reserrection? Why would satan want to be in mass when we read the Lord’s Gospel? Why would satan want to be in mass when we sing Alleluah to the Lord? We bow before the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in our mass. We pledge our allegence to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit through our Church. Tell me again why satan would want to be catholic?

And if a person has a problem with what a religious group teaches, how does one make the leap to satanism and define it as merely “strong language”? That is not language, but a statement of belief.

My statement is directed at any individual/group who makes that leap. Several come to mind.

Like I said, satan wants no part of catholicism.

HC
 
DLClark said:
It is strong language but you must ask, what evidence does he have to support such a claim. Make a statement like he did does not mean he hates Catholics as a group of people. You will never hear that come out of his mouth because he does not hate anyone. He has a problem with what the religion teaches. He has a problem justifying what this religious group teaches in light of what the Bible says. That is all. Pastor MacArthur is a very loving man. He is just doing what 2 Tim 4:1-5; Jude 3; Col. 2 says to do.
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You are right in saying the man has a problem.
 
MarcoPolo said:
I was listening again to a talk by John MacArthur (who I understand is fairly well-respected in Protestant circles). In the 7:00 minute mark of his sermon in this file, he states the following:*In the long war on the truth, the most formidable, relentless, and deceptive enemy has been Roman Catholicism. It is an apostate, corrupt, heretical, false Christianity. It is a front for the kingdom of Satan.*Protestants, non-Catholics, does this sort of comment bother you? In what way??
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Hey MarcoPolo.

Yes. It bothers me. Not because the anti-catholics undermines my faith but because a divided Body of Christ is a Body which is not working in full capacity.
These people are our brothers truly, but they have been deceived by the devil into not recognizing their own family. Its a tragedy.
These years we are challenged by Islam and New Age, paganism and secularism. In order to be a credible wittness for Christ all Christians need to stand together.

Our divisions are a scandal. Taken to the extreme as in your example… the testimony of a man who hates his own brother is always a very week testimony.
For the sake of the Gospel I think therefore we are all bothered.
 
Tomster said:
You are right in saying the man has a problem.
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The problem has been stated:

“He has a problem justifying what this religious group teaches in light of what the Bible says.”

The problem is called “individual interpretation”.

In other words:

Mr. MacArthur has a problem justifying what catholicism teaches in light of what he believes the Bible says.

And therein lies most protestant’s problem with catholicism.

HC
 
DLClark said:
It is Make a statement like he did does not mean he hates Catholics as a group of people. You will never hear that come out of his mouth because he does not hate anyone. He has a problem with what the religion teaches. He has a problem justifying what this religious group teaches in light of what the Bible says. That is all. Pastor MacArthur is a very loving man. He is just doing what 2 Tim 4:1-5; Jude 3; Col. 2 says to do.
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But imagine I said this:
“In the long war on the truth, the most **formidable, relentless, and deceptive enemy **has been protestantism. It is an apostate, corrupt, heretical, false Christianity. It is a front for the kingdom of Satan”.

Will you still say: “She is a loving woman, she does not nate anyone, she just has a problem justifying protestant teachings”. You know that sounds rather absurd. If you hate everything I stand for as a Catholic, it’s little comfort to me if you say: I have a problem with your faith, but not with your person. Jesus is my faith. Its personal and He is personal and every gift He has given me is something I guard and love…
for me it has everything to do with my relationship to Christ. This is the most important thing in our life. As a Catholic “my Catholic faith” is another way of saying: “My faith in Christ, my worship of Christ, my love of Christ, my communication with Him, His commication of Himself to me.”
I am Grace and Jesus, or I am nothing at all… and you say: Dont take it personally. What kind of people are you?

What Pastor MacArthur is saying is so blatantly ignorant and full of prejudice. Also, I want to make clear to you, we are the Church. We defend the Church. As far as I am concerned, Jesus died for the Church that this guy calls “deceptive enemy”. This is no small thing. The pride of it is overwhelming. I want to remind you that even Sct Michael did not utter any judgement on satan. Your pastor would not even have the Bible in his hand if it was not for his “enemy”.

Peace and Shalom, from a former Protestant, now Catholic.
 
GraceDK said:
But imagine I said this:
“In the long war on the truth, the most **formidable, relentless, and deceptive enemy **has been protestantism. It is an apostate, corrupt, heretical, false Christianity. It is a front for the kingdom of Satan”.

Will you still say: “She is a loving woman, she does not nate anyone, she just has a problem justifying protestant teachings”. You know that sounds rather absurd. If you hate everything I stand for as a Catholic, it’s little comfort to me if you say: I have a problem with your faith, but not with your person. Jesus is my faith. Its personal and He is personal and every gift He has given me is something I guard and love…
for me it has everything to do with my relationship to Christ. This is the most important thing in our life. As a Catholic “my Catholic faith” is another way of saying: “My faith in Christ, my worship of Christ, my love of Christ, my communication with Him, His commication of Himself to me.”
I am Grace and Jesus, or I am nothing at all… and you say: Dont take it personally. What kind of people are you?

What Pastor MacArthur is saying is so blatantly ignorant and full of prejudice. Also, I want to make clear to you, we are the Church. We defend the Church. As far as I am concerned, Jesus died for the Church that this guy calls “deceptive enemy”. This is no small thing. The pride of it is overwhelming. I want to remind you that even Sct Michael did not utter any judgement on satan. Your pastor would not even have the Bible in his hand if it was not for his “enemy”.

Peace and Shalom, from a former Protestant, now Catholic.
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what MacArthur is saying can be support from the bible. The bible says nothing about the veneration of Mary. We are love the Lord our god withh **all of our heart. To divid our love between god and Mary is to not love god with all of our heart. Christ is with us all the time. At salvation every person is placed into the body of Christ 1 cor 12:13. This can never change. **
 
DLClark said:
what MacArthur is saying can be support from the bible. The bible says nothing about the veneration of Mary. We are love the Lord our god withh **all of our heart. To divid our love between god and Mary is to not love god with all of our heart. Christ is with us all the time. At salvation every person is placed into the body of Christ 1 cor 12:13. This can never change. **
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No, with all due respect, your interpretation contains nothing about the veneration of Mary.

So if you love your mom you don’t love God with all your heart? That’s a weak argument DL.
 
DLClark said:
what MacArthur is saying can be support from the bible. The bible says nothing about the veneration of Mary. We are love the Lord our god withh **all of our heart. To divid our love between god and Mary is to not love god with all of our heart. Christ is with us all the time. At salvation every person is placed into the body of Christ 1 cor 12:13. This can never change. **
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Actually God Himself tells us to venerate Mariam, our Jewish mother.
The Bible says:
“Honour your father and mother”.
and
“Imitate Christ”.
Jesus honored Mary, The Holy Spirit and God the Father did likewise. Its amazing. God choose her. The Holy Spirit inspired Elisabeth to say: “Who am I, that the mother of my Lord comes to me?” Its the same words that David said when the Arch of the Covenant was brought to him in the Old Testament.
Also… the woman clothed in the sun in Revelation 12 is also a symbol of Mariam, even if it has more meanings than that. It has always been understood like that by the Church, since the earliest times.

Also, let me ask you: have you never loved your neighbour? If you did, did you then divide your love between God and man and not offer Him sufficient love? No, by loving his created children you serve Him. You know that you speak absurdity if you deny it.

I agree wholly with the last line of yours.
I am a convert to Catholicism. Oh the time I spent being afraid of Mary… being afraid that stepping close to her might make her a rival of Christ in my heart. I decided to stop praying to her out of fear. On that day Jesus said: Dont be afraid, delight in her because she has given Me so much joy.
Mariam is nothing without Jesus.
Your fear is misplaced my friend.

Peace and Shalom.
 
MarcoPolo said:
I was listening again to a talk by John MacArthur (who I understand is fairly well-respected in Protestant circles). In the 7:00 minute mark of his sermon in this file, he states the following:*In the long war on the truth, the most formidable, relentless, and deceptive enemy has been Roman Catholicism. It is an apostate, corrupt, heretical, false Christianity. It is a front for the kingdom of Satan.*Protestants, non-Catholics, does this sort of comment bother you? In what way??
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I think people make this claim when they can’t find credible refutations to denounce the Church with.

People use this stupid comment when they strongly disagree (or hate) someone or some thing and can’t come up with an intelligent expression of their reasons for disagreement. Sometimes I think that they don’t have any concrete reason for disgreeing. They “just don’t like it.”

I’m Catholic and I don’t get upset about it, personally. I feel bad for all the people listening to people like that and mindlessly sucking it in. Then they, too, disagree with the Church, but they don’t know why, as we’ve seen on this forum so many times. More often than not, they disagree with what people like that tell them what Catholicism is. And once they believe the lies, it’s God’s own strength it takes to drill the hole that let’s the light in.
 
DLClark said:
Very interseting. When I am tlod that I am wrong about something I ask for the accuser to support his accusations. MacArthur has given much biblical support for his reasons for the comments he makes. I would suggest you carefully look at what he says and comment on his statements rather than just write him off as a cook. :eek:
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MacArthur states directly and definitively Catholics are going to Hell. Our souls are lost because of what we believe and he sees Catholicism as a mission field. He feels it is his responsisbility to do whatever he can to save us from the fires of hell. This is the man you support. If you truly feel this way too and are here to help save us lost catholics, I commend you for your efforts.

Allow me to attempt to articulate the problem I have with this way of thinking. Assume MacArthur is correct and Luther Calvin and others were correct. Assume MacArthurs interpretation is infallible as he appears to demonstrate. Then I must ask, who is saved? Are Anglicans saved? Greek Orthodox, Seventh-Day Advantest? Main stream protestants?

I believe MacArthur views those who are “born again”, of course it must meet his stringent definition of the term, as saved. Why would Catholics be excluded using this criterea?

Catholic doctrine states: love the Lord Jesus Christ with all your heart mind and soul.
Catholic doctrine states: love thy neighbor as themself.
Catholic doctrine states: Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected.
Catholic doctrine states: We are to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
Catholics venerate Christ and worship daily throughout the world.

But we are damned:

Because we believe His Mother was given special Graces and was assumed into heaven.

Because we believe He is truly present in the Eucharist.
Because we believe He provide us with the Sacrement of Reconciliation.
Because we believe we must also exercise our love for Him and for each other along with having Faith in Him.

This simply makes no logical sense to me. Assume MacArthur is correct in everything he proclaims.

I die, meet Jesus and Jesus says to me:

“You loved my Mother too much and believed foolishly she could hear your prayers – to hell with you my son.”

“You foolishly believed you were to humiliate y ourself before fellow human beings and confess your sins to me through them. – to hell with you my son.”

“You foolishly believed I made myself present for you when you craved me, in unleaven bread, provided by another human being who loved me so much he gave his life on earth for me. – to hell with you my son.”

etc etc.

Please, how does this make sense?
 
GraceDK said:
Actually God Himself tells us to venerate Mariam, our Jewish mother.
The Bible says:
“Honour your father and mother”.
and
“Imitate Christ”.
Jesus honored Mary, The Holy Spirit and God the Father did likewise. Its amazing. God choose her. The Holy Spirit inspired Elisabeth to say: “Who am I, that the mother of my Lord comes to me?” Its the same words that David said when the Arch of the Covenant was brought to him in the Old Testament.
Also… the woman clothed in the sun in Revelation 12 is also a symbol of Mariam, even if it has more meanings than that. It has always been understood like that by the Church, since the earliest times.

Also, let me ask you: have you never loved your neighbour? If you did, did you then divide your love between God and man and not offer Him sufficient love? No, by loving his created children you serve Him. You know that you speak absurdity if you deny it.

I agree wholly with the last line of yours.
I am a convert to Catholicism. Oh the time I spent being afraid of Mary… being afraid that stepping close to her might make her a rival of Christ in my heart. I decided to stop praying to her out of fear. On that day Jesus said: Dont be afraid, delight in her because she has given Me so much joy.
Mariam is nothing without Jesus.
Your fear is misplaced my friend.

Peace and Shalom.
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the Bible does not say to venerate Mary? If so where. Revelastion 12 has nothing to do with Mary. It refers to many explanations have been offered for the identity of the women. The wormen is not Christ, nor the church in general, but rather israel as the matix from which Christ came. I am a born again believer in christ. I do not follow any denomination except when that group follows the Bible and it alone.

Again the bible does not say we are to have relics. In fact the 10 commandmnets forbid those things.
 
DLClark said:
the Bible does not say to venerate Mary? If so where. Revelastion 12 has nothing to do with Mary. It refers to many explanations have been offered for the identity of the women. The wormen is not Christ, nor the church in general, but rather israel as the matix from which Christ came. I am a born again believer in christ. I do not follow any denomination except when that group follows the Bible and it alone.

Again the bible does not say we are to have relics. In fact the 10 commandmnets forbid those things.
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Do the 10 commandments say to honor your Mother? Do you think Jesus honored His Mother?
 
It bothers me when anyone drops a blanket statement that equate any group of people to Satan. No matter what religion, or race, or nationality they were born to, or chosen for themselves, if they had done everything in their best capacity to do good as Jesus Christ our Lord had prescribed, they are certainly in the favor of our Lord. Whether or not, the person is ‘in the group’, but when he obeys the teachings of Christ, he is with the Lord.

Satan love to instill hate among us, and the moment we started to ‘hate’ or ‘bear false witness’ to our neighbors, we should recognise that it is Satan at work. Ask ourselves, do we need to accuse others of grave sins that we, our flawed minds are incapable of judging, to do such an act? If in our minds, we believed sincerely they ‘erred’, we should prayed for their hearts to return to our Lord, and if it is the Lord’s will, than we must believe that it would happen.

We do not adopt tactics of ‘scaring’, ‘insinuating and insulting’ just so we could ‘save’ them. If there is no decent approach without ‘adopting Satan’s methods’ you can be sure that this is not the method that our Lord wanted us to employ, to evangelise. Being firm, and even fanatical about our believes, is never to endanger or cause others harm~nor should one seek to harm oneselves deliberately for the sake of ‘matyrdoom’, for that is different from one who’s willing to die for the truth, but not actively seeking death just to ‘feel heroic’.
 
No It might be true
MARY can not be a mediator>> 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter, the first Pope was married. Why? Mark 1:29
The MASS is it scriptual? Hebrews 10:10-18:shrug:👍
 
MarcoPolo said:
I was listening again to a talk by John MacArthur (who I understand is fairly well-respected in Protestant circles). In the 7:00 minute mark of his sermon in this file, he states the following:*In the long war on the truth, the most formidable, relentless, and deceptive enemy has been Roman Catholicism. It is an apostate, corrupt, heretical, false Christianity. It is a front for the kingdom of Satan.*Protestants, non-Catholics, does this sort of comment bother you? In what way??
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I personally think the arch-enemy of Christianity is Islam.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

As for Catholicism, I think people should be able to think for themselves. If a man/woman does not seek God with all his/her heart, soul & strength and ends up in a wrong faith or worse right faith but wrong attitude then the only person to blame is himself/herself. I do not believe anything can keep us apart from the love of God except OURSELVES.

Of course, we must know with the right understanding which is true and which is false in order to walk in the light.

We can accuse this religion to be false or that religion to be corrupted. Ultimately, God is not asking us to judge those religions, He’s asking us if we are ready to be judged as righteous and be saved for eternity.

If you think its false, by all means stay away. What’s crucial of course is total religious freedom. Notice that Jesus’ instruction is to wipe the dust off your feet??? He never say to curse the house!

.
 
I don’t encounter much of that personally but when I hear of it, as on TV evangelist programs, I fear that a round of violent persecution against Catholics must be inevitable. When I was younger in grade school, I thought religious persecution was past and ancient history, suffered during the early formation of the Catholic church but faded away by the present day.

Now I know that isn’t true. Catholics have been martyred even in this century, in this very year!

The arguments presented against the Church are often not even logical so they can not be effectively reasoned away. In the USA, the best I can do if I actually encounter an angry non Catholic is to wave that flag and remind them that, praise the Lord, in this country there is freedom of religion. 😉
 
The more I study this and hang around here, the more I am convinced that the attitude of Catholics and Protestants toward each other pretty well are mirror images.
 
clashoff said:
No It might be true
MARY can not be a mediator>> 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter, the first Pope was married. Why? Mark 1:29
The MASS is it scriptual? Hebrews 10:10-18:shrug:👍
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Item one: find out what a mediator is and we can talk.

Item 2: so?

Item 3: and?
 
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