Non-denominational Christians

[Pryority7]

We believe it is the actual body and blood of Christ, that Christ is present, and that it is very important to partake of./QUOT

Soooo, your church is Catholic?

P7

 

[awantz]

awantz;2028806:

We believe it is the actual body and blood of Christ, that Christ is present, and that it is very important to partake of.[/QUOT

Soooo, your church is Catholic?

P7

No, my church is nondenominational, but my pastor’s wife used to be Catholic and some people that attend my church are Catholic.

[/quote]

 

[jmcrae]

Of which “Church” do you speak?

The Catholic Church, which was founded by Christ and given the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Religion, even if it comes from God, is led by men, and is thus prone to error. That, however, doesn’t mean God is incapable of clearing up the errors.

Quite so. We believe that God became Man (the man Jesus Christ) and came to the earth for exactly that reason.

 

[isaac.madsen]

The Catholic Church, which was founded by Christ and given the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Quite so. We believe that God became Man (the man Jesus Christ) and came to the earth for exactly that reason.

…but then there would be no reason for Christ to eventually return if man were not to screw things up again, would there? What, then, is the reason for his eventual second coming? And what is the apocalypse and all of that? If man doesn’t screw it all up, why would that be necessary?

 

[ricmat]

We believe it is the actual body and blood of Christ, that Christ is present, and that it is very important to partake of.

So in your church, how does the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Christ?

Can anybody “make it happen?”

If it’s only the pastor, then who gave him the power to do it?

 

[awantz]

So in your church, how does the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Christ?

Can anybody “make it happen?”

If it’s only the pastor, then who gave him the power to do it?

God can.

 

[jmcrae]

…but then there would be no reason for Christ to eventually return if man were not to screw things up again, would there? What, then, is the reason for his eventual second coming? And what is the apocalypse and all of that? If man doesn’t screw it all up, why would that be necessary?

Human beings will certainly mess things up - we are (as you know) already doing this.

God will continue to protect His Church, though.

At the end of the world, those who are faithfully following the teachings of His Church as best they know how will be assumed bodily into Heaven. (This is why God is protecting His Church from teaching error - so that those who follow the Church will know with certainty how to follow Him).

Those not obeying the teachings of His Church as best they know how will go bodily into Hell.

After that, there will be a whole new order, with all the human beings either in Heaven or in Hell (the same as the Angels are, right now) and something else going on - a new thing - on the earth.

 

[isaac.madsen]

After that, there will be a whole new order, with all the human beings either in Heaven or in Hell (the same as the Angels are, right now) and something else going on - a new thing - on the earth.

Interesting enough, though I don’t particularly agree with the Catholic interpretation of heaven and hell (at least what I have seen of the views on it). I can say well enough that I do not know much about heaven, though I’ve been through enough hell in my life to at least get some idea of what that is like and I’d rather not go there, so I try and do my best to live accordingly.

If curious what the Catholic view is of this “new thing” when the earth is supposed to be renewed and what now. Since the subject of this thread is Non-denominational Christians, I’d like to see some views regarding their opinions too, though I’m sure their views will vary.

 

[jmcrae]

Interesting enough, though I don’t particularly agree with the Catholic interpretation of heaven and hell (at least what I have seen of the views on it). I can say well enough that I do not know much about heaven, though I’ve been through enough hell in my life to at least get some idea of what that is like and I’d rather not go there, so I try and do my best to live accordingly.

If curious what the Catholic view is of this “new thing” when the earth is supposed to be renewed and what now. Since the subject of this thread is Non-denominational Christians, I’d like to see some views regarding their opinions too, though I’m sure their views will vary.

I’m not well-versed enough in this subject to attempt an explanation. There are several theories on the subject, but I don’t really understand any of them very coherently.

 

[ricmat]

God can.

Of course God can.

God can, but does He?

Certainly Jesus did it before his death. And he directed the apostles (but not the disciples at large) to do it too.

Will God do it for you?

 

[awantz]

Of course God can.

God can, but does He?

Certainly Jesus did it before his death. And he directed the apostles (but not the disciples at large) to do it too.

Will God do it for you?

Yes, I believe He does.

 

[ricmat]

Awantz:

I’m a bit confused by your last answer, and it may be because my questions were not clear. Let me try again

You originally said that in your current (non-Catholic) church, your position about the “Eucharist” is:

We believe it is the actual body and blood of Christ, that Christ is present, and that it is very important to partake of.

Do you believe that only your pastor can change the bread and wine to the body and blood of Christ, or can somebody else (anybody else?) do it?

 

[awantz]

Awantz:

I’m a bit confused by your last answer, and it may be because my questions were not clear. Let me try again

You originally said that in your current (non-Catholic) church, your position about the “Eucharist” is:

We believe it is the actual body and blood of Christ, that Christ is present, and that it is very important to partake of.

Do you believe that only your pastor can change the bread and wine to the body and blood of Christ, or can somebody else (anybody else?) do it?

Yes, only my pastor. Not just anybody, definitly not.

 

[ricmat]

Yes, only my pastor. Not just anybody, definitly not.

OK! That makes more sense to me.

What I was getting at before is this. Say you were to ask your pastor “Where did you get the power (or authority) to change the bread and wine to the body and blood of Christ?” what would he say?

Is it somehow connected with his ordination (if that’s the word you use?)

 

[awantz]

OK! That makes more sense to me.

What I was getting at before is this. Say you were to ask your pastor “Where did you get the power (or authority) to change the bread and wine to the body and blood of Christ?” what would he say?

Is it somehow connected with his ordination (if that’s the word you use?)

Yes, we use ordination and I am not sure what he’d say. It would be either that or he would say he got the power straight from God. I wouldn’t know for sure unless I asked him.

 

[ricmat]

Yes, we use ordination and I am not sure what he’d say. It would be either that or he would say he got the power straight from God. I wouldn’t know for sure unless I asked him.

Thanks for answering. non-Catholics who actually believe in the true presence in the Eucharist are very rare (in my experience). Don’t go out of your way, but if you run into your pastor and think to ask him, I’m curious to know what he says.

 

[awantz]

Thanks for answering. non-Catholics who actually believe in the true presence in the Eucharist are very rare (in my experience). Don’t go out of your way, but if you run into your pastor and think to ask him, I’m curious to know what he says.

If I get the chance I will.

 

[Pryority7]

Awantz,

Maybe I should be the one to be blunt here…

If your church actually believes that the bread and wine you use actually become the body and blood of Christ, then there is potential danger that you guys are engaging in idolatry…let me explain…

We believe that when the priest says the words of consecration over the bread and wine, the bread and wine are NOT bread and wine anymore…it becomes the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ…Body, Soul and Divinity under the mere appearance of the former elements of bread and wine. Therefore, when they put the Eurcharist in the monstrance and we worship that, we are worshipping God because God is ACTUALLY THERE.

Now…going back to YOUR church. If your pastor claims to actually change the bread and wine into the actual Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, in the exact same way we Catholics believe it to be so, then I will have to say that he is in serious error. The bread and wine are still bread and wine, and if you guys worship THAT, then it’s idolatry.
I’m not saying you guys are evil or anything. Far from it. Your intentions and sense of worship may be sincere, but sincerity does not nessecarily equate truth.
Clear things up with me a bit before we go on if I am mistaken about your notion on the Eurcharist…

P7

 

[awantz]

Awantz,

Maybe I should be the one to be blunt here…

If your church actually believes that the bread and wine you use actually become the body and blood of Christ, then there is potential danger that you guys are engaging in idolatry…let me explain…

We believe that when the priest says the words of consecration over the bread and wine, the bread and wine are NOT bread and wine anymore…it becomes the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ…Body, Soul and Divinity under the mere appearance of the former elements of bread and wine. Therefore, when they put the Eurcharist in the monstrance and we worship that, we are worshipping God because God is ACTUALLY THERE.

Now…going back to YOUR church. If your pastor claims to actually change the bread and wine into the actual Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, in the exact same way we Catholics believe it to be so, then I will have to say that he is in serious error. The bread and wine are still bread and wine, and if you guys worship THAT, then it’s idolatry.
I’m not saying you guys are evil or anything. Far from it. Your intentions and sense of worship may be sincere, but sincerity does not nessecarily equate truth.
Clear things up with me a bit before we go on if I am mistaken about your notion on the Eurcharist…

P7

In my heart it is the actual body and blood of Christ and to me that is all that matters. I can’t speak for the others in my church, but that is what I believe. There is no idolitry going on here and if you are going to keep saying there is, I’m going to have to say that the Catholic Church is commiting idolitry as well. Please don’t make me have to do that.

 

[jack_hawkins]

In my heart it is the actual body and blood of Christ and to me that is all that matters. I can’t speak for the others in my church, but that is what I believe. There is no idolitry going on here and if you are going to keep saying there is, I’m going to have to say that the Catholic Church is commiting idolitry as well. Please don’t make me have to do that.

Yes I have to agree Pryority 7 is using convoluted logic which will rebound on him.