Non-denominational Christians

[contramundum7]

I think it’s definitely based on racist assumptions.

In any case, how does he know that the Africans who don’t use technology aren’t actually superior to us? Since they are able to make quite a decent living, working only 10-15 hours a week, without the stress of the 9-5 grind every day. And if something breaks, they know how to either fix it or make a new one - they don’t have to call in a repairman and wait all day for him to show up.

It makes me wonder, who is more “advanced?”

i have always thought it was wiser to live a simple, uncomplicated, un-stressful life… Yes, i believe they have always been wiser

 

[contramundum7]

Actually, I know Mormons don’t make the Bible-only claim (Not sure about SDA). In fact, they will tell you that the B.O.M. is much more accurate and superior to the Bible.

However, this does remind me of something. I remember my mother-in-law once telling me that she was raised Pentecostal, and no girls were not allowed to ride bicycles, swim, or wear pants. Talk about unbiblical “traditions of men”.

Amen - especially the wine thing. Jesus drank wine @ the Last Supper and turned water into wine at Cana… So how is He against drinkig wine…? Oh, but that’s right - it was only grape juice… But wait… I thought we were supposed to believe in the Bible and only the Bible… (??). The Bible says “wine” but maybe… maybe he didn’t really mean wine…
Gee - no wonder there are so many Protestant religions… they are always trying to clear up all the confusion that man-made religions have created…

 

[mrs_abbott]

Thinking about things and listening to what Catholics have to say here, I have come to the conclusion that the only Christianity that makes any sense to me is non-denominational Christianity. Are there many non-denominational Christians here?

That’s funny because when I was ready to leave Catholicism, I only wanted to go to a non-denominational Christian church. I still have thoughts about it deep within but nothing that’d make me bail ship anytime soon.
I know that there are quite a few non-denom Christians lurking here. I’ve befriended a handful of them.
(I also want to apologize for jumping into this late but the topic caught my eye and I’ve been out of the forums for almost a week. )

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Gee - no wonder there are so many Protestant religions… they are always trying to clear up all the confusion that man-made religions have created…

and no one was ever confused by the Catholic church… gee all protestants should just be atheists with the way these threads go. We are no good, dumb, cant get anything right, are lead around by dummies that are unworthy of learning. All of us are sola scripture never entertained anything else, OSAS, and never entertain the idea of serving God in any which way,

are overly eager to the point of foaming at the mouth when witnessing about Jesus, incapable of discerning a coheisve thought because we are blind. Our Pastors are not smart. We dont understand what is really is like to know God and are leading people astray when we do speak to them about God. These are the sort of things Ive learned since hanging out here. It feels like a younger brother that really should be out watching cartoons because they just dont get it and never will unless they do it exactly like the big brother does. Cause he has it right and it will never change, never grow and if it does only the ideas from the big brother count because thats the way it is.

Do I have it straight yet? Im trying to gain more knowledge of God but my spirit is whipped constantly. I hear people slam Catholics and I thought like CS Lewis did that in the end theres gonna be surprises of who ends up where. I came to see what Catholics said rather than what others said catholics say. I like source material. But arrgh, its no better here.

If we are all gonna be Gods People just how is it gonna happen if all we do is argue? I can see it now, Christ has returned and no one notices because we are all arguing! But the atheists notice and go wow I guess the nut bars were right. I dont know maybe I should just sola myself and read books, its safer.

ps Im not mad just frusterated for Gods kids to see it straight, maybe we never will. Until in the end when He sits us down and starts in the begining, I . . . and thats how it all happened. Then our eyes will really see. At least thats my hope, that He will set it all straight. :tissues: There now, I feel better.

 

[arcadia]

Dear Sir,

I wrote that Jesus was pretty clear about calling people father’s etc. I asked the question, why did Jesus teach about that. Did he have a problem with titles? Why? I do not think it was answered.

You wrote: They (christians) don’t reject tradition, just Catholic Tradition, then replace it with inferior unbiblical rules, rituals, beliefs, and post-modern hocus pocus. Did I miss any?

Boy do seem angry! I am truly sorry if I upset you. That was not my intent.

You said that "Christians don’t reject tradition, just Catholic tradition, then replace it with unbiblical rules. The truth is is that Christians have adopted many Catholic traditions such as sunday servises etc.
Have I ever once these past few days said that Christians are perfect? No way! Will they ever be? Probably not. Believe me there are things that people of all denominations need to repent of. Anything that is a direct violation of God’s law must be repented of. God cannot lie. He is a loving father and wants the best for his people that is why he gave us rules for living.

I will try to address some of what you wrote. I don’t speak for all christians. I could be wrong in my beliefs too. I am totally open to and willing to look at scripture from another perpective. I am still learning. Jesus used scripture as a higher authority than tradition when the two were in conflict, tradition was seen to be in error. This is what should be done by us too.

The wise men celebrated Jesus’ birth why can’t we? Does the bible forbid it? Show me where?
I am sure happy the he was born and that is a good reason to celebrate.

The same can be said for Easter.

The Sunday sabbath thing is in direct opposition to God’s command about the sabbath. This somthing that Christians and Catholics would do well to repent of. This something that I am wrestling with.

Pretrib rapture I do not agree with neither do most of my associates. Other christians may disagree. Are they saved? Is this the basis for our salvation?

Water baptism (full immersion) is biblical whether we like it or not. Many, many scriptures support this. Sprinkling an infant is a far cry from water baptism. Water baptism is one of the ways that the Bible says we are saved. (Mark 16:16) I cannot think of any cases in the Bible were a child was sprinkled. You can baptise your way if you want. This is not forbidden in the Bible (it is not mentioned at all) but I would rather be baptised in the same way as Jesus etc. and the way the bible speaks of.

The vast majority of scripture supports the idea that once saved always saved is wrong.

Health and wealth? I do not agree on this teaching but Jesus said I would that you all prosper even as your soul prospers. He also said I came to give you life and life more abundantly. He also said seek ye first the kingdom of God and His rightousness and all these things will be added unto you. We should not over emphasize the prosperity gospel. That would be a definate error as it ignores so much of the bible.

Private interpretation of Scripture? The bible was written in the common languages of the day so that we could read it. It was not kept for the elites of course. It was written for me to read.

It is plain and easy to understand. Bible is the sole rule of faith? All christian books and sermons etc. must never contradict the bible. I believe that the Canon is closed. Does God still give revelation? Yes of course but the bible is The source. God spoke through inspired men and he still speaks. Jesus rebuked the pharisees for upholding their traditions over the scriptures. How can you argue that? When books of the law were found hidden in the temple, young King Josiah saw that the common practices did not line up with the scriptures and so changes to the current practices to keep the practice in line with scripture and God was pleased. This has to be the case today.

We are saved by faith lest any man should boast. But, we will show our faith by our works.
Christ paid for my sins on Calvary.

A sin is a sin? Jesus said “if any man break one of the 10 commandments he is guilty of all.” However, the bible says that there is a sin that does not lead to death thereby stating that all sin is not equal.

The body of Christ is a spiritual union? …Hmm, well the bible says that we are members of Christs body. I

I ask you, what church saves?
The answer is that no church saves. Jesus saves. Praise the Lord.
In love,

arcadia

 

[guanophore]

I have always called the pastor of the church I attend by their first names. Although i greatly respect the pastor, he is truely a peer and a brother. Even though he is indeed a teacher or God’s word and is a pastor to God’s people “the church”. He would not want it any other way.

And how do you fulfill this scripture?

1 Tim 5:17-18

17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;

I was at at a Catholic wedding in 2002. The Bishop performed the ceremony. He was introduced as ‘Your excellentcy’. I do not like the title Reverend either. Definately not Biblical. In fact, this practice is in opposition to Jesus’ command in Mathew 23 : 8 -12.

Catholics recognize that our teachers bear a greater burden:

3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness. 2 For we all make many mistakes, and if any one makes no mistakes in what he says he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also.James 3:1-2

Catholics recognize that the good deeds of our leaders, based on the grace poured out in Christ, are examples of excellency.

"those who have believed in God may be careful to apply themselves to good deeds; these are excellent and profitable to men. Titus 3:8

Jesus rebuked the Parisees for putting the traditions of men above the word of God. Brothers, aren’t we doing the same thing?

your brother,

arcadia (Rob)

Again, do you make any distinguishment between traditions of men and Sacred traditions? Who is “we”??? It does not sound like you find yourself in the position of giving honor or recognizing excellency of your leaders in your expressions.

 

[guanophore]

What is this passage saying? I think Jesus is warning us against trying to usurp the fatherhood of God which, in many ways, is what the Pharisees and Scribes were doing. Did Jesus intend in this passage from Matthew 23 that there be an absolute ban against calling anyone your spiritual “father?” No, I don’t think so since in the Bible, Jesus, Paul, and Stephen refer to people as “father.”

I just wondered if you had the same problem referring to someone as “teacher” as you do “father?”

Specifically, do you refuse to call anyone teacher, doctor, master or rabbi?

Go easy on Arcadia, Janet. He is heaven bound, which means he is probably also a quadruple amputee and blind.

Matt 18:8-9
8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire."

 

[arcadia]

Jesus is saying dont let anything even important things like eyes and arms to get in the away of your destination.

Is this supposed to have bearing on my question about calling people father.

You can call me father if you want because the bible says that i am a priest and a king.

In love and humour,

Arcadia, your daddy

 

[arcadia]

Honoring leaders is one thing. Titles are another. Jesus made command about calling people by grand titles. Why? Didn’t he want them to be honoured?

In love,
arcadia

 

[Wisdom]

Honoring leaders is one thing. Titles are another. Jesus made command about calling people by grand titles. Why? Didn’t he want them to be honoured?

In love,
arcadia

Oh kinda like when Jesus called Abraham "Father Abraham and then called Peter the Kepha ie Rock of the Church. Look every protestant who every referred to their earthly father as father or called a teacher well teacher is practicing a double standard here as Jesus in the bizarre interpretaion banned the term from being used. The new testament referred to Abraham and Paul as spiritual fathers and said there is the tilte of teacher within the church sometime you say Jesus denied people. Silly rabbit double standards are for kids.

There is always context to explain such things when the Bible can’t follow its own rules its not the Bible which is at fault but the reader who misinterpreted the intent of the original saying. Jesus was mad at the Pharisees as they looked upon as their source of Fatherhood and Teaching not to God the One Father and One teacher but to themselves as the source of Fatherhood and Teaching. If you acknowledge your source of authority comes from above then their is really no problem at all. It is much like Jesus conversation with Pilate. Pilate thought he called the shots for Jesus life and death as a poltical ruler Jesus explained it was he who gave the power to Pilate not the other way around. It was this same misunderstanding the Pharisees seemed to have. This goes for protestants as well who call themselves Pastor which means Shepherd as their is truly only one Shepherd. If they fail to acknowledge that they have some problems but as long as they do acknowledge that they could be legitamatly be called pastors as they share in the pastorship of Jesus. Of course Karl Keating had an interesting article a while back that the early colonist protestant americans called their pastors father for a couple hundred years it was not till the mass migration of catholics in the 18th century that protestants seek to differentiate themselves from them.

 

[guanophore]

Honoring leaders is one thing. Titles are another. Jesus made command about calling people by grand titles. Why? Didn’t he want them to be honoured?

In love,
arcadia

I think this question must be directed first to Jesus,a nd his apostles, who continued to use the terms teacher, father, etc.

 

[guanophore]

Jesus is saying dont let anything even important things like eyes and arms to get in the away of your destination.

Is this supposed to have bearing on my question about calling people father.

You can call me father if you want because the bible says that i am a priest and a king.

In love and humour,

Arcadia, your daddy

Likewise, if you call anyone father, make sure it does not get in the way of your destination!

 

[RNRobert]

However, this does remind me of something. I remember my mother-in-law once telling me that she was raised Pentecostal, and no girls were not allowed to ride bicycles, swim, or wear pants. Talk about unbiblical “traditions of men”.

And some churches don’t allow dancing, either.

 

[Wisdom]

And some churches don’t allow dancing, either.

Never understood that one as Judaism doesn’t bar dancing in fact the culture encourages dancing. Let’s put it this way their is a lot of movement going on at a Jewish wedding in comparision to a Southern Baptist wedding which pastor subsribes to this tradition. Jewish weddings and parts of the Passover ritual have dancing and King David was known to be a dancer. People talk about Catholic legalism but I swear we got less rules than a lot of fundamentalist protestant churchs.
Of course church’s like these almost always ban drinking of all froms and insist Jesus turned water into grape juice. Oh yeah like your going to get away with that one at a wedding no less. Silliness. More twisting fo scripture to support a man made tradition.

 

[IanS]

I wrote that Jesus was pretty clear about calling people father’s etc. I asked the question, why did Jesus teach about that. Did he have a problem with titles? Why? I do not think it was answered.

I think this has already been covered by others fairly well. If you don’t think it has, let me know.

You wrote: They (christians) don’t reject tradition, just Catholic Tradition, then replace it with inferior unbiblical rules, rituals, beliefs, and post-modern hocus pocus. Did I miss any?

Boy do seem angry! I am truly sorry if I upset you. That was not my intent.

Not angry.

You said that "Christians don’t reject tradition, just Catholic tradition, then replace it with unbiblical rules. The truth is is that Christians have adopted many Catholic traditions such as sunday servises etc.

Have I ever once these past few days said that Christians are perfect? No way! Will they ever be? Probably not. Believe me there are things that people of all denominations need to repent of. Anything that is a direct violation of God’s law must be repented of. God cannot lie. He is a loving father and wants the best for his people that is why he gave us rules for living.

People are not perfect, absolutely. However, any church established by Jesus Christ must be perfect in it’s teachings of faith and morals. Let me ask you a few things:

Is the one church which Christ established, authoritative, visible, apostolic, infallible on teachings of faith and morals, and consistent in doctrine?

If Christ is all the head, all of these must be true. Otherwise, Jesus is not the Son of God and was just a false prophet.

Are all Christian churches a visible sign of unity to the world?
Do all Christian churches have apostolic authority?
Are all Christian churches infallible?
Are all Christian churches consistent in their teachings of right and wrong?

Let’s say I want to know if embryonic stem cell research is moral or immoral in the eyes of Jesus and don’t know where to turn. So I go talk to my evangelical buddy and he tells me that the Bible is the sole rule of faith and morals as well the only source of all Christian infallibility.

So I crack open my Bible and can’t find a single word on embryonic stem cell research. What now?

Well, the infallible Bible does tell me that it is actually the Church that is the pillar and bulwark of all truth (1Tim 3:15), the final source of authority (Mt 18:17-18) as well it must consistent in teachings (1Tim 1:3).

So I open the phone book and to the “Church” section with listings for 396 different churches in my area:

Churches-Baptist (66)
Churches-Baptist-General (63)
Churches-Catholic (47)
Churches-Church Of Christ (22)
Churches-Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints (16)
Churches-Episcopal (12)
Churches-Lutheran (73)
Churches-Methodist (65)
Churches-Pentecostal (11)
Churches-Presbyterian (21)

Which one should I go to? Will I get the same answer from all 396 churches?

I will try to address some of what you wrote. I don’t speak for all christians. I could be wrong in my beliefs too. I am totally open to and willing to look at scripture from another perpective. I am still learning. Jesus used scripture as a higher authority than tradition when the two were in conflict, tradition was seen to be in error. This is what should be done by us too.

There is noting in the Bible that states what is written is superior to oral traditions. In fact, Paul tells us to hold fast to our traditions, whether written or oral. How do you think Christians taught one another when 90% of people were totally illiterate? The Bible wasn’t even canonized until late in the fourth century. Did you know that one of the tests for canonization for a NT book was to see if it complied to oral tradition?

I The wise men celebrated Jesus’ birth why can’t we? Does the bible forbid it? Show me where?

The Bible doesn’t forbid it. However, what day do you celebrate it on? If it is on December 25th, why? There is only a 1 in 365 chance Jesus was actually born on what would be December 25th according to the gregorian calendar.

 

[IanS]

Water baptism (full immersion) is biblical whether we like it or not. Many, many scriptures support this. Sprinkling an infant is a far cry from water baptism. Water baptism is one of the ways that the Bible says we are saved. (Mark 16:16) I cannot think of any cases in the Bible were a child was sprinkled. You can baptise your way if you want. This is not forbidden in the Bible (it is not mentioned at all) but I would rather be baptised in the same way as Jesus etc. and the way the bible speaks of.

Any examples of full immersion only? Does it say Jesus was dunked in the River Jordan? I don’t know. I have nothing against full immersion., that’s how my daughter was baptized, I just don’t get the “only” part. Especially when it is preached by churches who also say baptism is only symbolic.

Private interpretation of Scripture? The bible was written in the common languages of the day so that we could read it. It was not kept for the elites of course. It was written for me to read.

2 Peter, chapter 3
15: And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16: speaking of this as he does in all his letters.** There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.** 17: You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.

I am definately ignorant of Scripture and would hate to twist it to my own destruction.How can I understand unless someone guides me?"

Acts, chapter 8
27: And he rose and went. And behold, an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a minister of the Can’dace, queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of all her treasure, had come to Jerusalem to worship 28: and was returning; seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29: And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30: So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31: And he said, "How can I, unless some one guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

 

[guanophore]

I wrote that Jesus was pretty clear about calling people father’s etc. I asked the question, why did Jesus teach about that. Did he have a problem with titles? Why? I do not think it was answered.

Jesus was NOT criticizing titles, but the attitude of the heart.

CALL NO MAN–WHAT?

A few days ago the Gospel reading was taken from the beginning of Matthew 23. After Jesus tells his listeners to obey, but not to follow the example of, the Pharisees, who love “being called rabbi by men,” he says: “But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ. He who is greatest among you shall be your servant; whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.”

Commonly we begin parsing this passage by thinking of the way our Lord was taking the Pharisees to task for their ostentation and hypocrisy, but I wonder whether it might be more productive to begin at the end. Isn’t the point that his followers are to inculcate the virtue of humility, each putting the rest ahead of himself?

It isn’t that the one who is the greatest among them is going to end up being the servant of the others; it’s that the one who is the servant is, precisely because of that, the greatest. True greatness (the kind the world rarely acknowledges) paradoxically arises from humility.

No one should take Christ’s words as forbidding the use of titles. If “you are not to be called rabbi” (which means teacher in the sense of a learned man, not just an instructor), it isn’t that there is something wrong with the title. What is wrong–in some cases, as with the Pharisees–is that the title is sought as a perk.

By the way, the titles are more or less duplicative: rabbi, teacher, master, father (in the sense of spiritual or intellectual generator), plus one that does not appear, doctor (from the Latin for teacher). Sometimes I am amused at the vehemence with which a Fundamentalist preacher will inveigh against Catholics calling priests “Father,” while that same preacher styles himself “Doctor.”

Yes, we have one Father in heaven, but our Lord tells us we also have “one teacher” and “one master.” If it is wrong to use one title, it is wrong to use any of them. If it is right to use one title, it is right to use them all–in appropriate circumstances.

catholic.com/newsletters/kke_030325.asp

 

[guanophore]

You said that "Christians don’t reject tradition, just Catholic tradition, then replace it with unbiblical rules. The truth is is that Christians have adopted many Catholic traditions such as sunday servises etc.

Believe me there are things that people of all denominations need to repent of. Anything that is a direct violation of God’s law must be repented of. God cannot lie. He is a loving father and wants the best for his people that is why he gave us rules for living.

Are you bound by the law? Which law is that?

I am still learning. Jesus used scripture as a higher authority than tradition when the two were in conflict, tradition was seen to be in error. This is what should be done by us too.

You don’t seem to distinguish between the traditions of men (customs) and the sacred traditions (oral teaching from God).

The Sunday sabbath thing is in direct opposition to God's command about the sabbath.  This somthing that Christians and Catholics would do well to repent of.  This something that I am wrestling with.

You better take it up first with Jesus and His disciples. Jesus was the one who chose to rise from the dead on Sunday, causing everyone to want to celebrate that day. He was the one who appeared to his disciples on Sunday, causing them to want to continue to gather on that day to wait upon His Holy appearance. He is the one who chose to pour out His spirit on Sunday, giving rise to the great celebration of Pentecost.

Matt 28:1
1 Now after the sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Mag’dalene and the other Mary went to see the sepulchre."

Mark 16:9

9 Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene"

John 20:19

19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them"

Acts 20:7
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread"

That is why Sunday became known as “the Lord’s day”

Rom 14:5-6
5 One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord."

Remember that all the first followers were good Jews, and continued to attend temple and synagogue services just as Jesus taught them by His own example. They would then gather again on the next day for the celebration of the Eucharist, and the teachings of Jesus. This continued until they were expelled from the synagogues.

 

[guanophore]

Believe me there are things that people of all denominations need to repent of. Anything that is a direct violation of God’s law must be repented of. God cannot lie. He is a loving father and wants the best for his people that is why he gave us rules for living.

Which rules are those, I wonder? Who is the keeper of the rules?

Other christians may disagree. Are they saved? Is this the basis for our salvation? I ask you, what church saves? The answer is that no church saves. Jesus saves. Praise the Lord.

Jesus does save. But, he chose to bring salvation to the world through His church. Therefore, the church participates in His saving mission.

Water baptism(full immersion) is biblical whether we like it or not.  Many, many scriptures support this.  Sprinkling an infant is a far cry from water baptism.  Water baptism is one of the ways that the Bible says we are saved. (Mark 16:16)  I cannot think of any cases in the Bible were a child was sprinkled.  You can baptise your way if you want.  This is not forbidden in the Bible (it is not mentioned at all) but I would rather be baptised in the same way as Jesus etc. and the way the bible speaks of.

I think full immersion water baptism is great, but there are many acceptable forms of baptism How do you know how Jeuss was baptized? Were you there?! How were people immersed. ,when most of the regions where John and the disciples were baptized were only four inches deep? This must be one of those “laws” you were talking about before.

Private interpretation of Scripture?  The bible was written in the common languages of the day so that we could read it.  It was not kept for the elites of course.  It was written for me to read.

Of course! But reading it is one thing, and making up your own interpretations of the meaning of what you read is another thing entirely.

It is plain and easy to understand. Bible is the sole rule of faith? All christian books and sermons etc. must never contradict the bible.

No, Arcadia, the scripture testifies to itself that there are parts that are hard to understand, and can be twisted (misinterpreted). The problem with your statement that “nothing should contradict the bible” is that each person, when they read it, comes up with their own individual understanding of what it means, based on their education (or lack thereof). The Catholic Church is the only one with a system in place that approves writings as consistent with the teachings of the faith.

Does God still give revelation? Yes of course but the bible is The source.

Really? what revelation is that? Hmm. You are suffering from an error here, that the bible is the source. The bible is not the source. Jesus is the source. The bible does not give you eternal life.

John 5:37-41
37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen; 38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent. 39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

Jesus rebuked the pharisees for upholding their traditions over the scriptures. How can you argue that? When books of the law were found hidden in the temple, young King Josiah saw that the common practices did not line up with the scriptures and so changes to the current practices to keep the practice in line with scripture and God was pleased. This has to be the case today.

No arguement, Arcadia. My only arguement is that you make no distinction between customs (traditions of men) and Sacred tradition.

 

[jmcrae]

Arcadia;

You may not be aware of it, but the Catholic Church also forbids baptism by sprinkling. There are two acceptable forms in the Catholic Church - full immersion, and pouring.

We do accept the baptisms of other denominations where sprinkling is used, because at least there is a bit of water, but if you ever attend a Catholic baptism, you won’t see anybody being sprinkled.