Non-Orthodox aware of the Orthodox Church?

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

Are there Orthodox priests who discourage couples from using contraception? Or is it ever brought up in Orthodox circles?

Yes and yes. The standard position is very much anti-contraception. Here is a search on a Russian faith website, similar to EWTN but a little more gung-ho:
https://russian-faith.com/searchs=contraception

You can see titles like Contraception Destroys the Individual, Family and Nation - Popular Russian Priest (Smirnov)

The search function didn’t work for me, but what an article that was! I just skimmed over it, but everything I read was absolutely amazing. Спасибо, Отец Дмитри, indeed.

If I were a priest, I would print out this article and give it to every family at Mass one Sunday, accompanied by a sermon of my own.

When I came into the Church, one thing my family and I just absolutely could not fathom, was why this sin is not condemned repeatedly from the pulpit and in the confessional. It would be like the Baptists (the old-timey ones) keeping their mouths shut about alcohol, the Jehovah’s Witnesses staying silent on blood transfusions, or Orthodox Jewish rabbis not condemning pork consumption. Never heard of such a thing. 40+ years later, I find it just as bizarre now, as I did then, that the pastors and teachers of the Church don’t condemn this sin, as Paul VI begged them to do in Humanae vitae.

 

[Salibi]

My question is, have you come to ‘fit in’ to the Russian Church as a non-Russian, and have you come to like Russia as a country

This is a misconception of Orthodoxy that pops up every now and then on the forums.

While Orthodox churches in the West do tend to be ethnic because most attendees are of an Russian/Greek/ etc… background, that doesn’t mean that a person of a different ethnicity is going to be ostracized or rejected. Furthermore, lots of Catholic churches are exactly the same, very ethnic with attendees from similar or the same background. A Maronite church would have mostly Lebanese attendees, an Armenian Catholic one Armenians, an Ethiopian one Ethiopians, and so on. On the surface that would make Catholicism look very ethnic, but deeper scrutiny would reveal to anyone who cares that the faith is the same.

It’s the exact same thing with Orthodoxy

The religion is the exact same going from a Greek to a Ukranian Orthodox church. One often reads on here, by posters seeking to bash Orthodoxy, the following:

“Orthodoxy is wrong because it’s not one church because it is very ethnic and the churches are always fighting with each other”.

The reality of the matter is that while the Orthodox do behave in a very factional attitude (which is most likely due to the absence of a central authority like the Papacy), they’re still one Church.

And who said Orthodoxy is “wrong”? Certainly not the Catholic Church. Orthodox adherents have as much a pathway to Heaven through Orthodoxy as Catholics do in Catholicism. The only problem is when a Catholic converts to Orthodoxy, in which case he/she would be in schism, a mortal sin.

God Bless.

 

[catholic03]

While Orthodox churches in the West do tend to be ethnic because most attendees are of an Russian/Greek/ etc… background, that doesn’t mean that a person of a different ethnicity is going to be ostracized or rejected. Furthermore, lots of Catholic churches are exactly the same, very ethnic with attendees from similar or the same background. A Maronite church would have mostly Lebanese attendees, an Armenian Catholic one Armenians, an Ethiopian one Ethiopians, and so on. On the surface that would make Catholicism look very ethnic, but deeper scrutiny would reveal to anyone who cares that the faith is the same.

Yes, you are quite right. My question was a bit off topic anyway. I hope it didn’t come across as me trying to ‘bash’ the Orthodox Church. I was not suggesting that a non-Russian would be ostracised, but I was interested as to how he had found attending a mostly ethnic Russian church as a non-Russian.

I’ll also add that in the past, many Latin Catholic Churches have been quite ethnic. For example, many Catholic churches in the early days of the US, Australia, or New Zealand were almost entirely Irish.

And who said Orthodoxy is “wrong”?

I don’t think I quite said that. If I outright said it was ‘wrong’ then I should not have.

My belief is that Orthodoxy is almost entirely correct aside from a few sticking points, mainly their views on the papacy.

Again, my question was perhaps a bit off topic if not slightly ignorant. Thank you for clearing up some details.

God bless.

 

[Salibi]

Oh no! I’m afraid I have to apologize to you!

My post made it seem like I was addressing points you had made. Not at all! In fact, it was I who went off topic- I just dealt with stuff as they occurred to me, and not with what was written in your post!

I’m really sorry- I understand how annoying this must have been for you.

God bless.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

And who said Orthodoxy is “wrong”? Certainly not the Catholic Church. Orthodox adherents have as much a pathway to Heaven through Orthodoxy as Catholics do in Catholicism. The only problem is when a Catholic converts to Orthodoxy, in which case he/she would be in schism, a mortal sin.

There is, however, that little matter about it being absolutely necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman Pontiff (Boniface VIII, Unam sanctam, 1302, which FWIW came after the schism). I know that this teaching is much disliked among modern Catholics, and I’m sure many wish it could just not be brought up anymore — if it weren’t, everyone would just eventually forget about it — but it was infallible Catholic teaching.

I’m sure there’s some way to invoke development of doctrine, hermeneutic of continuity, or what have you, and I have to think Our Blessed Lord accepts people as they are, not as they should be, and knows that all parties to the schism — there was blame enough to go around on both sides — are working in good faith to repair that schism. It wasn’t always that way.

 

[Salibi]

I do realize this, but actually I do know from priests that Orthodoxy is not heretical, merely schismatic, and that is not saying that Orthodox individuals are schismatics, as the burden of schism decreases with every generation.

I don’t think there is necessarily a discrepancy. The Orthodox can be considered to be in imperfect union with the Catholic Church by virtue of their faith, and that would technically make them subject to the Pope. (This is my analysis, not something I’ve learned from priests. Would appreciate correction if wrong).

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The Orthodox can be considered to be in imperfect union with the Catholic Church by virtue of their faith, and that would technically make them subject to the Pope.

I have thought along these same lines, and used this reasoning with regard to other non-Catholic Christians as well.

I do have to chuckle, though, at the thought of telling the pastor of the KJV-only Baptist church down the road from me — I’ve met him in passing, good guy — “hey, Pastor, you do realize that on account of being a Christian, you are subject to the Roman Pontiff, did anyone ever tell you that?”.

I have to think that his reaction would be… interesting.

 

[catholic03]

Oh no! I’m afraid I have to apologize to you!

My post made it seem like I was addressing points you had made. Not at all! In fact, it was I who went off topic- I just dealt with stuff as they occurred to me, and not with what was written in your post!

No apology necessary! Besides, what you wrote was good and perfectly on topic as it was addressing misconceptions about the Orthodox Church which is a major theme on this thread.

I’m really sorry- I understand how annoying this must have been for you.

God bless.

That’s fine. I’m not bothered about being corrected anyway. A few months ago I might have been (I was too defensive then!) but I’ve learned that I’m not always right and that as Christians we should humbly accept corrections from other Christians.

God bless you!

 

[ReaderT]

I know you’re a convert to Russian Orthodoxy from Methodism (?). My question is, have you come to ‘fit in’ to the Russian Church as a non-Russian, and have you come to like Russia as a country?

Salibi was correct: while the Greeks & Russians built the Church, Americans have been increasingly coming to it. Our Priest is a convert, as is every adult in our parish (besides a few elderly Russians). Our deacon is a convert. All three of my Godsons are converts - etc. etc. etc.

This is by far the norm in almost every Orthodox parish in America. Four out of the five priests I’ve had were converts, as were their parishioners. We Americans are tired of “Say this prayer and you’re saved, now let’s play rock music.” That sort of Christianity isn’t fulfilling.

As for Russia, I think they’re doing an excellent job.

The search function didn’t work for me, but what an article that was! I just skimmed over it, but everything I read was absolutely amazing. Спасибо, Отец Дмитри, indeed.

If I were a priest, I would print out this article and give it to every family at Mass one Sunday, accompanied by a sermon of my own.

Glad to hear you liked the article!

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

The search function didn’t work for me, but what an article that was! I just skimmed over it, but everything I read was absolutely amazing. Спасибо, Отец Дмитри, indeed.

If I were a priest, I would print out this article and give it to every family at Mass one Sunday, accompanied by a sermon of my own.

Glad to hear you liked the article!

I did indeed, and I copied it to my personal blog. I am able to read very simple Russian (can’t speak it beyond “da”, “nyet”, and “ya amerikanets”) and I instantly spotted “spasibo, Otets Dmitri” — “thank you, Father Dmitri”.