North Carolina to Limit Bathroom Use by Birth Gender

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exnihilo said:
So what kind of illness is it? The folks who so suffer say their body is mismatched from their mind. Either the body or the mind is messed up. Why would we think the fault lies with the body and not the mind? Sure in our materialistic world the mind often gets dismissed. But this particular problem relies on there being a mind. If a man said he was really a chicken why would we assume his body was the problem and not his mind. Is that really how far off track we are? Sadly I think so.
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I think it’s more complicated than this. A not negligible number of human being are born with sexual physical characteristics of both sexes (intersexed). When speaking of human sexuality, the collective, current wisdom is that body and mind both matter. We obviously still have a lot to learn about human beings and human sexuality.

All I know is that the people who know the most about transgender (other than transgendered folks themselves) are the doctors and scientists who work with and study this community. I consider those people to be the experts and those people do not consider transgender to be a mental disorder.
 
Little_Sheep said:
I think it’s more complicated than this. A not negligible number of human being are born with sexual physical characteristics of both sexes (intersexed). When speaking of human sexuality, the collective, current wisdom is that body and mind both matter. We obviously still have a lot to learn about human beings and human sexuality.

All I know is that the people who know the most about transgender (other than transgendered folks themselves) are the doctors and scientists who work with and study this community. I consider those people to be the experts and those people do not consider transgender to be a mental disorder.
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I don’t consider it a mental illness at all, either, LS. I think something went wrong in the gestation process and the person was born with the wrong genitalia for their liking, personality, sexual preference, etc. I think they deserve understanding and help and acceptance.
 
Little_Sheep said:
I think it’s more complicated than this. A not negligible number of human being are born with sexual physical characteristics of both sexes (intersexed). When speaking of human sexuality, the collective, current wisdom is that body and mind both matter. We obviously still have a lot to learn about human beings and human sexuality.

All I know is that the people who know the most about transgender (other than transgendered folks themselves) are the doctors and scientists who work with and study this community. I consider those people to be the experts and those people do not consider transgender to be a mental disorder.
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We are not speaking of intersexed We are talking about people who are normally developed believing they are something else Are you of the opinion that we should accommodate any delusion a person suffers or just those concerning sex? Why should we treat the man who believes he is a woman any differently from a man who believes he is a horse (which is more common than most people think)
 
exnihilo said:
So what kind of illness is it? The folks who so suffer say their body is mismatched from their mind. Either the body or the mind is messed up. Why would we think the fault lies with the body and not the mind? Sure in our materialistic world the mind often gets dismissed. But this particular problem relies on there being a mind. If a man said he was really a chicken why would we assume his body was the problem and not his mind. Is that really how far off track we are? Sadly I think so.
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A male human and a female human are the same species; a male human and a chicken are not. I respect your point, but your analogy isn’t sound.
 
estesbob said:
We are not speaking of intersexed We are talking about people who are normally developed believing they are something else Are you of the opinion that we should accommodate any delusion a person suffers or just those concerning sex? Why should we treat the man who believes he is a woman any differently from a man who believes he is a horse (which is more common than most people think)
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Because a man and a woman are the same species; a man and a horse are not.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I don’t consider it a mental illness at all, either, LS. I think something went wrong in the gestation process and the person was born with the wrong genitalia for their liking, personality, sexual preference, etc. I think they deserve understanding and help and acceptance.
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They may deserve understanding, help, and acceptance, but they do not deserve restroom privileges in the restroom that does not correspond to the genitalia they have, either from birth, or following a surgery that changed it.
It is simple: look down, then enter the restroom that corresponds to what you have. If you feel you should have the other kind, go get the surgery done (on your own tab, BTW, or that of the insurance policy that you pay for), get your birth certificate changed, then you can enter the restroom corresponding to the new parts.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
They may deserve understanding, help, and acceptance, but they do not deserve restroom privileges in the restroom that does not correspond to the genitalia they have, either from birth, or following a surgery that changed it.
It is simple: look down, then enter the restroom that corresponds to what you have. If you feel you should have the other kind, go get the surgery done (on your own tab, BTW, or that of the insurance policy that you pay for), get your birth certificate changed, then you can enter the restroom corresponding to the new parts.

Jon
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I really don’t care if the restroom is mixed as long as there is privacy for everyone as in doors on the individual stalls. I don’t want to see another woman/have her see me any more than I want to see/be seen by a man.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I really don’t care if the restroom is mixed as long as there is privacy for everyone as in doors on the individual stalls.
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If you have a 12 year old daughter, you might care. Charlotte’s ordinance would violate the locker privacy of a middle school or high school.

This is plain and simple common decency. Go into the restroom the corresponds to the parts you see when you look down during a shower.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
If you have a 12 year old daughter, you might care. Charlotte’s ordinance would violate the locker privacy of a middle school or high school.

This is plain and simple common decency. Go into the restroom the corresponds to the parts you see when you look down during a shower.

Jon
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If it involves showering at a school, I think people should go to the restroom that fits their physical gender.

I also think schools should give kids privacy when they shower. Goodness knows schools spend enough money on other things. Separate the showers. Girls don’t care for other girls looking at them, either.
 
estesbob said:
We are not speaking of intersexed We are talking about people who are normally developed believing they are something else Are you of the opinion that we should accommodate any delusion a person suffers or just those concerning sex? Why should we treat the man who believes he is a woman any differently from a man who believes he is a horse (which is more common than most people think)
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Actually, some transgendered people are also intersexed.

I can’t answer your question because it assume the opposite of the facts that are in evidence… Transgender is not a mental illness or a delusion.

I understand that transgender is strange and makes people uncomfortable. I believe that we have a lot more to learn about humans and I am open to what we might learn.

Based on the very little I understand about transgender, I agree (as LB opined) that something during gestation might be at play. At least that’s where scientists seem to be looking right now.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
If it involves showering at a school, I think people should go to the restroom that fits their physical gender.

I also think schools should give kids privacy when they shower. Goodness knows schools spend enough money on other things. Separate the showers. Girls don’t care for other girls looking at them, either.
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Typically in a girls locker they do. And more and more in boys showers. That’s not the point. Common decency dictates you use the restroom that corresponds to your physical gender. What someone thinks their gender *should be *is irrelevant.

Jon
 
estesbob said:
I think that rather than promoting acceptance of these peoples delusions they should work o getting them help to overcome their mental illness
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So do you think that gay men and lesbians are also delusional and mentally ill or just transgender people?
 
Little_Sheep said:
Actually, some transgendered people are also intersexed.

I can’t answer your question because it assume the opposite of the facts that are in evidence… Transgender is not a mental illness or a delusion.

I understand that transgender is strange and makes people uncomfortable. I believe that we have a lot more to learn about humans and I am open to what we might learn.

Based on the very little I understand about transgender, I agree (as LB opined) that something during gestation might be at play. At least that’s where scientists seem to be looking right now.
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I trust the medical doctors and scientists who are experts on this issue, too, LS. It’s certainly not something I’ve studied in-depth.
 
JonNC said:
Everyone should have access to the restroom that corresponds to their body parts. That is equal access.

Jon
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So who’s going to be checking people’s body parts when they use the restroom?
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I trust the medical doctors and scientists who are experts on this issue, too, LS. It’s certainly not something I’ve studied in-depth.
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That’s where I am, LB. I think it is fascinating to learn more about us and our world. I think Science and Christianity back each other up with amazing truth and beauty.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
A male human and a female human are the same species; a male human and a chicken are not. I respect your point, but your analogy isn’t sound.
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So you are willing to accommodate only politically correct delusions Everyone else is delusional Strange science indeed.
 
Thorolfr said:
So do you think that gay men and lesbians are also delusional and mentally ill or just transgender people?
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I can’t speak for eb, of course, but I am aware of more than a few hardliners who absolutely believe that homosexuals are delusional and/or mentally ill.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I trust the medical doctors and scientists who are experts on this issue, too, LS. It’s certainly not something I’ve studied in-depth.
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None of whom can find anty physical,biologic or genetic reason for these delusions but we are told we must accept them anyway_at least as far a sex goes
 
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