North Carolina to Limit Bathroom Use by Birth Gender

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estesbob said:
None of whom can find anty physical,biologic or genetic reason for these delusions but we are told we must accept them anyway_at least as far a sex goes
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So, eb, as Thorolfr asked earlier, do you believe homosexuals are delusional and/or suffering from mental illness?
 
estesbob said:
None of whom can find anty physical,biologic or genetic reason for these delusions but we are told we must accept them anyway_at least as far a sex goes
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Here’s what the Mayo Clinic says about depression: “It’s not known exactly what causes depression.” Here’s what the Mayo Clinic says about Bipolar Disorder: “The exact cause of bipolar disorder is unknown.”

So does this mean that people who suffer from depression or Bipolar Disorder are simply delusional and that there is no biological or genetic reason for these conditions since we don’t know yet what causes them? There are lots of things that we don’t know yet about certain topics, but that doesn’t mean that there is no genetic or biological cause for them.
 
Thorolfr said:
Here’s what the Mayo Clinic says about depression: “It’s not known exactly what causes depression.” Here’s what the Mayo Clinic says about Bipolar Disorder: “The exact cause of bipolar disorder is unknown.”

So does this mean that people who suffer from depression or Bipolar Disorder are simply delusional and that there is no biological or genetic reason for these conditions since we don’t know yet what causes them?
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👍

So much we don’t know. But it should not frighten us to search and learn.
 
Little_Sheep said:
I’m certain awarely of cases like this. The difference is that this woman who believes she is a cat is recognized by doctors and scientists to have a mental disorder. I continue to trust the medical community and scientific community most on the transgender issue.
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At one time the medical community, classified this issue as a mental disease. I don’t trust them.
 
adrift said:
At one time the medical community, classified this issue as a mental disease. I don’t trust them.
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I don’t trust psychiatrists either. They used to believe in all this wonderful Freudian stuff about the ego, the id and the superego and Oedipus Complexes, etc. Now Freudian psychology has mostly fallen out of favor among most psychiatrists. And 200 years ago, medical doctors used to bleed sick people by putting leaches on them. I don’t know why psychiatrist and medical doctors changed their opinions and stopped doing what they used to do, but now I don’t trust them any more. 😉
 
Thorolfr said:
So who’s going to be checking people’s body parts when they use the restroom?
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No one. I would expect common decency from people. I may be delusional on that point, considering the moral decline currently.

“Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.” -
Alexis de Tocqueville

Jon
 
adrift said:
At one time the medical community, classified this issue as a mental disease. I don’t trust them.
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Yes, and at one time the medical community believed using leeches was best practice for pulling out disease! At least Scientists are brave enough to say, “hey - we were wrong!” when that becomes overwhelmingly apparent. 😉

ETA: I may have more faith in psychiatry than some. My amazing Irish FIL is a psychiatrist and I have watched him help people who suffer from PTSD rebuild their lives.
 
Little_Sheep said:
I haven’t followed these emergent laws much and so I don’t know what started the hullabaloo.
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The GOP uses fear to sway a lot of voters. The problem is the typical culture war issues have run out of steam; same sex marriage is a done deal, states have pushed abortion restrictions past the line set by Planned Parenthood v. Casey and are stuck waiting for lawsuits to make their way through the courts. But the increased visibility of trans issues brought by trans celebrities has resulted in these “bathroom bills”, and the GOP is hedging their bets that it will be an issue effective enough to get out the vote in an election where they will be slaughtered on downticket races if Trump is their nominee.
 
Little_Sheep said:
Yes, and at one time the medical community believed using leeches was best practice for pulling out disease! At least Scientists are brave enough to say, “hey - we were wrong!” when that becomes overwhelmingly apparent. 😉

ETA: I may have more faith in psychiatry than some. My amazing Irish FIL is a psychiatrist and I have watched him help people who suffer from PTSD rebuild their lives.
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At one time?
Leeches Cleared for Medical Use by the FDA
 
Ender said:
It was a reaction to the city of Charlotte passing legislation opening public, multiple occupancy rest room facilities to men claiming to be women and vice versa.
It has happened. It may not happen much yet, but bills like the one Charlotte passed are fairly new, and if the past is prelude, this stuff will only get worse. From 2012:*Washington state college has decided it will not prevent a 45-year-old man from lounging naked in a women’s locker room, in an area frequented by girls as young as six.
*The wonder to me is that people can actually oppose laws like the one NC passed.

Ender
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Thank you for standing up for the rights of peeping toms everywhere to not be scandalized when they press their faces against a sauna window to see inside.
Thorolfr said:
The problem, however, is how is a woman going to know that the person with a beard who just entered the women’s restroom was actually a female at birth? Who’s going to check and find out? How is this law going to be enforced?

So having a person with a beard entering the women’s restroom is going to make non-transgender people feel more comfortable?
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Well I’m sure some women feel much better about Buck Angel entering the women’s restroom than Janet Mock, but I’m not one of them.
josie_L said:
Do we know enough to state emphatically that “sex reassignment surgery” is the best thing to do for those with gender dysphoria? I am not convinced of it, and I would not call those advocating it as proponents of science and/or reason.

waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/2013/11/20-regret-changing-genders-over-40attempt-suicide-and-even-after-surgery-a-large-number-remain-traum.html
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I can’t actually find the studies that that refers to.
adrift said:
At one time the medical community, classified this issue as a mental disease. I don’t trust them.
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They once considered epilepsy a mental disorder, do you distrust them for now considering it a physiological issue?
 
sallybutler said:
Maybe this is simplistic of me, but if someone is dressed like a woman, looks female, and sits down to pee, they can use the stall next to me. Maybe men don’t know this, but women’s bathrooms don’t have public urination stations. We generally don’t know what someone does inside the bathroom. And to tell the truth, don’t really want to know.
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I don’t understand the fuss over this. I for one would much rather share a bathroom with a transwoman who looks and acts female than a transman who looks and acts male. Yet, this law says the latter is who I must share a bathroom with. Makes no sense to me. I certainly wouldn’t be comfortable telling a transwoman they must use the mens bathroom.

What do people think will happen if a transman enters a female bathroom? Are those who support this law really going to say it’s ok? I doubt it. They’re going to say he shouldn’t be using the women’s bathroom. Yet they also say he can’t use the mens bathroom. Is a transman supposed to hold it til he gets home?
 
lmachine said:
The GOP uses fear to sway a lot of voters. The problem is the typical culture war issues have run out of steam; same sex marriage is a done deal, states have pushed abortion restrictions past the line set by Planned Parenthood v. Casey and are stuck waiting for lawsuits to make their way through the courts. But the increased visibility of trans issues brought by trans celebrities has resulted in these “bathroom bills”, and the GOP is hedging their bets that it will be an issue effective enough to get out the vote in an election where they will be slaughtered on downticket races if Trump is their nominee.
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Where is fear involved in this issue, other than perhaps the fear within decent Americans that the sixties progressive counter culture is finally being successful in their goal of destroying the moral underpinnings of what was the greatest nation the earth had ever known .
I see no argument, none, to support the indecent ordinance passed by Charlotte. No fear, Just decency drove the Legislature and the governor to do this.

Jon
 
ACLU to file federal lawsuit over NC bathroom bill

thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/274429-aclu-to-file-federal-lawsuit-over-nc-bathroom-bill

I hope they lose this case.

By the way, I’m curious what role the former president of the Chamber of Commerce LGBT group in Charlotte had, a convicted sex offender (sexoffender.ncsbi.gov/details.aspx?SRN=008345S1), who did in fact step down earlier this month after it was raised by the NC Values Coalition, and apparently this Chamber of Commerce LGBT group this person was a part of, had a role in crafting that ordinance. I wonder what role he had, as the then president, of having his (name removed by moderator)ut into the crafting of that law, because presumably he had an (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
JonNC said:
Where is fear involved in this issue, other than perhaps the fear within decent Americans that the sixties progressive counter culture is finally being successful in their goal of destroying the moral underpinnings of what was the greatest nation the earth had ever known .
I see no argument, none, to support the indecent ordinance passed by Charlotte. No fear, Just decency drove the Legislature and the governor to do this.

Jon
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In our brave new age anyone who does not embrace sexual deviancy is a bigot and fearful
 
Little_Sheep said:
So, eb, as Thorolfr asked earlier, do you believe homosexuals are delusional and/or suffering from mental illness?
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I don’t think that’s the point. Whether or not being transgender is delusional isn’t the point either. The point is that if one has male parts, it is common decency to use the male restroom. Same for females.
For someone to claim a right to use the opposite restroom is more than just indecent. It is immoral, inconsiderate, pathetic, and frankly hateful.

Jon
 
Little_Sheep said:
I think it’s more complicated than this. A not negligible number of human being are born with sexual physical characteristics of both sexes (intersexed). When speaking of human sexuality, the collective, current wisdom is that body and mind both matter. We obviously still have a lot to learn about human beings and human sexuality.

All I know is that the people who know the most about transgender (other than transgendered folks themselves) are the doctors and scientists who work with and study this community. I consider those people to be the experts and those people do not consider transgender to be a mental disorder.
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You have not seen, I presume, the studies regarding this, or that Transgender was removed as a disorder by lobbying from LGBT groups in 2013? I spoke to the surgeons who performed these operations when they started to become more frequent. I understand the process. The fact that lobbying changed a diagnosis speaks to manipulation of psychiatrists who are part of the APA.

Ed
 
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