North Carolina to Limit Bathroom Use by Birth Gender

[JonNC]

Give the Washington Post credit for giving Governor McCrory a chance to respond.

washingtonpost.com/opinions/north-carolina-is-very-interested-in-protecting-rights/2016/04/15/ab7e1840-033d-11e6-8bb1-f124a43f84dc_story.html?postshare=1021460755156473&tid=ss_tw

The facts are clear. North Carolina is now one of 25 states in the country to officially bar discrimination for state employees on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. We also allow private organizations to set their own restroom policies while maintaining common-sense, gender-specific restrooms, locker rooms and showers in our public schools, government buildings and highway rest stops.

Jon

 

[FollowChrist34]

A correlation does not imply causation. Since no one knows what causes people to be transgender, how do you know that it can be caused by a variety of factors or what those factors might be? It’s mere speculation on your part, not a proven fact that childhood sexual trauma can be a cause.

I think we’re back in 6000 year old earth territory here. You’d make a great fundamentalist in a parallel universe.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

For the (N+1)th time:

The BSTc region - while it does show a degree of sexual dimorphism when measured - is not an indicator of one’s “real” sex. First, it is highly plastic in response to behavior. Second, the size ranges for men and women have significant overlap, and it has not been shown yet whether the different ranges are due to the individual’s sex, or if the individual’s behavior as a member of that sex causes the different ranges. In other words, does the decreased BSTc size cause transsexualism, or does transsexualism cause a change in BSTc size?

That oddly crimson clupea harengus is well past it’s sell-by date, and has become more than a but pungent.

Please produce a paper showing that reason is plastic. Most of the time people make the jump from some of the brain is plastic (fact) to all of the brain is plastic (false). I also wasn’t talking about it.

What needs to be remembered here is that this bill is not just about the transgendered, nor was it passed just to make their lives more difficult. The justification for it is that it makes it illegal for a man (or a woman) to walk into a public, multi-occupancy, rest room or locker facility of the opposite sex (where gender is determined biologically rather than psychologically.)

Ignore for a moment the impact on the transgendered and address this issue: if a man can be accepted as a woman simply by claiming to be one, what is to prevent men from entering any woman’s facility if all that is necessary is for him to assert that he is female?

What is the legal definition of a transgender person? Focusing solely on the presumed impact on the transgender because this law was passed is to ignore the impact on everyone else if it was not passed.

Ender

As if rules against men going into women’s restrooms actually stopped them from raping, sexually assaulting, or taping women in the women’s restrooms

An interesting study

OBJECTIVE: Transgender children who have socially transitioned, that is, who identify as the gender “opposite” their natal sex and are supported to live openly as that gender, are increasingly visible in society, yet we know nothing about their mental health. Previous work with children with gender identity disorder (GID; now termed gender dysphoria) has found remarkably high rates of anxiety and depression in these children. Here we examine, for the first time, mental health in a sample of socially transitioned transgender children.

METHODS: A community-based national sample of transgender, prepubescent children (n = 73, aged 3–12 years), along with control groups of nontransgender children in the same age range (n = 73 age- and gender-matched community controls; n = 49 sibling of transgender participants), were recruited as part of the TransYouth Project. Parents completed anxiety and depression measures.

RESULTS: Transgender children showed no elevations in depression and slightly elevated anxiety relative to population averages. They did not differ from the control groups on depression symptoms and had only marginally higher anxiety symptoms.

CONCLUSIONS: Socially transitioned transgender children who are supported in their gender identity have developmentally normative levels of depression and only minimal elevations in anxiety, suggesting that psychopathology is not inevitable within this group. Especially striking is the comparison with reports of children with GID; socially transitioned transgender children have notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among children with GID living as their natal sex.

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2016/02/24/peds.2015-3223

 

[estesbob]

Isn’t it great that Michael Moore and Bruce Springsteen can refuse to do business with people they disagree with ?

 

[Ender]

As if rules against men going into women’s restrooms actually stopped them from raping, sexually assaulting, or taping women in the women’s restrooms

This is an “argument” against having any laws since no law total prevents the actions it makes illegal. The reason for having such laws is not the expectation that they will prevent all transgressions, but that they will severely inhibit them. This law is no exception.

Ender

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

This is an “argument” against having any laws since no law total prevents the actions it makes illegal. The reason for having such laws is not the expectation that they will prevent all transgressions, but that they will severely inhibit them. This law is no exception.

Ender

The things I listed are already crimes, why add another law?

 

[Ender]

The things I listed are already crimes, why add another law?

Those things are already illegal, true, nor does this law address them, nor - more to the point - do those laws address this situation. This law makes it illegal for a man or woman to enter a public rest room or locker room belonging to the opposite gender simply on the basis of his claim to be entitled to do so. That is, it is the actual gender rather than the proclaimed gender that determines which facilities the person is entitled to use. Without this law no such legal protection would exist, at least not in Charlotte.

Ender

 

[irishpatrick]

I cannot fathom why this isn’t far easier than people make it. If one has female parts, they use the Women’s restroom, if they have male parts, they use the Men’s bathroom. If people with gender issues one day have their body changed, then they use the bathroom appropriate to their change. Why is this so hard to settle?

 

[AlphaFoxtrotNW]

One of the problems with me being as inexperienced as I am in this field is that I do not know what to make of this. Personally, I do not have knowledge to engage in these sorts of conversations but I feel I cannot hide behind my wall of ignorance any longer. Do the means justify the result in this situation? Because from what I am seeing throughout the various sources this only provides kindling to the every growing fire storm against christanity. Then again, I feel that I need some enlightenment on this topic.
~Alpha

 

[retire_early]

A correlation does not imply causation. Since no one knows what causes people to be transgender, how do you know that it can be caused by a variety of factors or what those factors might be? It’s mere speculation on your part, not a proven fact that childhood sexual trauma can be a cause.

“But this is mere speculation,” says Watson in The Sign of Four, as his friend thrusts to the heart of yet another mystery.“It is more than that,” says Sherlock Holmes. “It is the only hypothesis which covers the facts.”"

from the April 5, 2016 edition of BBC News Magazine:

The Vocabularist: Speculation doesn’t have to be ‘mere’.
​

“Correlation is not causation but it sure is a hint.” – Edward Tufte
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Tufte

Transgenderism couldbe caused by a variety of factors, or maybe just one or two or three or a million. You don’t know and neither do I, but then, I never said I did.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

“But this is mere speculation,” says Watson in The Sign of Four, as his friend thrusts to the heart of yet another mystery.“It is more than that,” says Sherlock Holmes. “It is the only hypothesis which covers the facts.”"

from the April 5, 2016 edition of BBC News Magazine:

The Vocabularist: Speculation doesn’t have to be ‘mere’.
​

“Correlation is not causation but it sure is a hint.” – Edward Tufte
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Tufte

Transgenderism couldbe caused by a variety of factors, or maybe just one or two or three or a million. You don’t know and neither do I, but then, I never said I did.

The problem is, that hypothesis does not cover the facts. The correlation does not necessarily work the way you want, for example being transgender could make them more isolated and vulnerable to being sexually violated.

 

[retire_early]

The problem is, that hypothesis does not cover the facts. The correlation does not necessarily work the way you want, for example being transgender could make them more isolated and vulnerable to being sexually violated.

???

Hey, Joie, hope you are having a nice evening and doing well.
I agree, being transgender-feeling and / or appearing could definitely be burdensome in the ways you suggest. All the more reason to lift these folks and their needs up in prayer and set an example to not act unjustly towards them.

The correlation may or may not work. I don’t believe I inserted my wants in the post. I believe Mr. Richard’s experience brings something to the discussion.

 

[Thorolfr]

From today’s Guardian:

North Carolina’s anti-LGBT law could cost the state millions in lost revenue

North Carolina’s controversial anti-LGBT law has so far cost the city of Raleigh $3m, according to the agency that promotes tourism in the area.

The Greater Raleigh Convention and Visitors Bureau told local media on Monday that the economic losses from the law have quadrupled in the past week. The visitors’ bureau said $2.4m in lost business has been reported last week, up from $732,000 a week before. By Monday, the total losses had equaled about $3.1m.

The new law, known as House Bill 2 (HB2), was passed by the state government in order to overturn an ordinance passed by Charlotte’s city council in February. That ordinance sought to extend rights to the LGBT community, including allowing transgender residents to use the bathroom of the sex they identified with.

theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/19/north-carolina-anti-lgbt-law-bathroom-bill-hb2-economic-losses

 

[ARSpade]

From today’s Guardian:

North Carolina’s anti-LGBT law could cost the state millions in lost revenue

Shouldn’t all of the companies and bands and such that cancelled and lost all that money be forced to “bake that cake”, so to speak?

 

[AlphaFoxtrotNW]

frankly, I tend to get stressed about hearing this news, but I feel I have to keep an eye on it to determine the true state of the union.

 

[ucfengr]

There is no reason but bigotry to be offended at seeing a woman’s penis.

 

[JimG]

There is no reason but bigotry to be offended at seeing a woman’s penis.

It may be startling, but no doubt women will get used to it.

 

[sallybutler]

My favorite solution is individual bathrooms. One toilet and washstand each. This would accomplish many things. No worrying about who the others in the room are and what their intentions are, people who can’t urinate when others might be Abe to hear them don’t have to worry, plumbers will have lots of jobs, as will decorators, electricians, carpenters, and other tradesmen, creating a temporary increase in the economy and tax revenue. A win win win.

 

[ucfengr]

My favorite solution is individual bathrooms. One toilet and washstand each. This would accomplish many things. No worrying about who the others in the room are and what their intentions are, people who can’t urinate when others might be Abe to hear them don’t have to worry, plumbers will have lots of jobs, as will decorators, electricians, carpenters, and other tradesmen, creating a temporary increase in the economy and tax revenue. A win win win.

Much more likely that businesses will just get rid of public restrooms, because most businesses don’t have piles of cash laying around that they can devote to remodeling their bathrooms.

 

[CatholicSooner]

What is the process of changing your birth certificate gender?

To me this bill is common sense.

This is exactly like the south park episode. It won’t be long before a male that feels like a woman demands to use a woman’s restroom. One that hasn’t even had a sex change surgery. It will be all about feelings.

I commend North Carolina and just shake my head at the companies and bands boycotting the state b/c they don’t understand the bill and overreact like usual.

I would guess everyone of those people boycotting would have an issue if their 5 year old daughter had to be in a stall next to a grown man