Not allowed to say He or Him for God

[puzzleannie]

Our Supreme Deity GOD, as the First Godhead is the Father of All Creation…however this was after the Split of the Androgenous, he and she being…thereby, creating the second Godhead…known as the Holy Spirit/Ghost or Mother GOD…then together they feduncated and together…in their LOVE for one another…created the third Godhead, the Son, as the Word of GOD.

This culminates the Trinity…both male and female GODs…

wrong
this is a Catholic forum
please take these ideas to the non-Catholic religion forum where they belong
thank you.
if you have not got a Catechism of the Catholic Church please go to the bishops’s website usccb.org and read the first section defining the Trinity

OP has not yet told us exactly what is going on in her parish, and who is pushing it, so it is premature to fling epithets like feminist and aging hippy around here, but I am this close to bringing out my heresy bumper sticker

 

[Alexia2000]

In our Parish, in some places in the Missal, where the word ‘men’ appears, our priest substitutes ‘people’

Catholicism is not about gender division, subjugation of women or feminism; these issues are divisive and that is not what this religion is about; yes, the two genders sometimes need to be segregated for the purpose of modesty

God is greater than all of us; we are a ‘subset’ of God and can only understand God using our limited intelligence and within the constraints of our language; I believe that God is genderless or put it another way, God is greater than the need for genders

 

[amdannemiller]

I think this can be settled and shut down very quickly using the following:

Jesus IS God.
Jesus IS man.
He is the God-Man.

Case closed.

If a person doesn’t believe Jesus IS God 100% and also man 100% then that person is already in serious trouble long before they even begin the argument against calling God Father or referring to God as He or Him.

Haha…nicely said!, I completely agree with you!

 

[palmas85]

Our Supreme Deity GOD, as the First Godhead is the Father of All Creation…however this was after the Split of the Androgenous, he and she being…thereby, creating the second Godhead…known as the Holy Spirit/Ghost or Mother GOD…then together they feduncated and together…in their LOVE for one another…created the third Godhead, the Son, as the Word of GOD.

This culminates the Trinity…both male and female GODs…

I would love to see exactly where you got this from. It sounds suspiciously like some form of Gnostic theory and thought in some of it’s elements.

Please enlighten us. Where can we read up on this doctrine?.

 

[Layman]

1. God is active and creative. Culturally, it makes sense to use He and Him.
2. All literature and practice heretofore uses the male pronouns. WHO has the authority to change that? Not a priest, that’s for sure!
3. Yet another attempt to strip meaning from our lives. Get rid of gender, religion, nationality, free speech and anything a man might latch onto to boost himself and what do you have left? A society of drones who are easy to herd.

A priest in our local church uses the phrase “Sisters and brothers”. Just what you want in a Mass; little jarring incidents of personal expression* [sarcasm].*

 

[mariahloves]

Jesus called God the Father. He did not call Him Mother, Sister or Mother/Father or Brother/Sister. He called Him Father.

I think that probably means something and that something is very important in the scheme of things.

And just how do you know that God is not male? Jesus, who is a part of the Blessed Trinity along with the Father, whoops there is that word again, and the Holy Spirit, which comprise the Godhead, was certainly male or do you argue that He was some sexless creature brought forth to unite both sexes into a common non sexual scheme of things?

Not to be crass, but do you think God has a penis?

 

[mariahloves]

While it is true that God is pure spirit and does not possess sexual characteristics of either gender, theology is very clear on this: the persons of the Holy Trinity are referred to as male. The liturgy is also very clear: God the Father, Jesus the only-begotten Son, and the Holy Spirit use male pronouns.

I used to go to a Newman Center where the congregation had spontaneously decided to slip in “God” instead of “His” in various parts of the Mass - i.e. “… for our good and the good of all God’s church.” This is an illicit practice. Nobody can add, subtract or change the words of the Mass no matter what their personal preference.

That’s fine but there’s nothing wrong with not referring to God as He is there?

 

[palmas85]

Not to be crass, but do you think God has a penis?

This answer pretty well shows where your mind is on the issue doesn’t it?

 

[Palaeologos]

First, you have the order wrong - Father begets Son, Father and Son beget Holy Spirit. Second, God is not created - this implies he isn’t God. The Son and the HS weren’t created by the Father, they were ‘begotten, not made, one in being with the Father’

Close; the Father eternally begets the Son, and the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and the Son. If the Holy Ghost were begotten by the Father and the Son, that would make them both fathers of it; which is not true, not at all.

The Father’s love for the Son, and the Son’s love for the Father, is perfect. In a way, the Holy Ghost can be thought of as the love that continually pours from and into both the Father and the Son. (That’s metaphor, not a scientific theological statement)

 

[mariahloves]

This answer pretty well shows where your mind is on the issue doesn’t it?

To me a male is a creature that has a penis. People are basically saying God is a dude, so I’m trying to prove a point.

 

[Carlo_Nardi]

Jesus said Father. Jesus also said, that God will protect us like a mother hen protects her chicks. Not an exact wording, but something like it. That does not make Him a female but like a female He will defend His children from any harm brought against them.

Carlo

 

[Carlo_Nardi]

Jesus said Father. Jesus also said, that God will protect us like a mother hen protects her chicks. Not an exact wording, but something like it. That does not make Him a female but like a female He will defend His children from any harm brought against them.

Carlo

 

[SunnaB16]

Close; the Father eternally begets the Son, and the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and the Son. If the Holy Ghost were begotten by the Father and the Son, that would make them both fathers of it; which is not true, not at all.

The Father’s love for the Son, and the Son’s love for the Father, is perfect. In a way, the Holy Ghost can be thought of as the love that continually pours from and into both the Father and the Son. (That’s metaphor, not a scientific theological statement.)

It`s valid, though.

Adding to that:
The word “generates” can be substituted for “begets”. So, the Father is the generating Principle in the Godhead.
The Son is the Fathers SelfKnowledge: fully God, because the Father knows Himself totally. (But the Son cant exist w/o the Father; and the Father cant exist w/o His SelfKnowledge.) Spirit doesnt occupy space, so it`s not a case of three Persons “co-occupying” the same space…

In the (earthly) family, the FATHER is the GENERATING principle, not the mother…
So earthly fatherhood is a reflection of the Fathers Fatherhood (that word! but theres no choice!). Masculinity, itself, is a reflection of that. To refer to the Father as “It” or He/She or Mother/Father etc is insulting.

Man is created in Gods image; not vise versa. We have a bad hobbit of projecting our own image and likeness onto Him. And we end up with Gollum! Shudder! Mariahloves: thats exactly what you`re doing.

Let “inclusive language” in; and you destroy the proper concept of marriage and family life, and the reason for the male-only priesthood tied to the relationship between Christ and His Bride the Church. Etc.

God is Spirit; therefore genderless: BUT…

ANY heresy which manages to take hold poisons the entire Organism.
**
“Lex orandi lex credendi”**

 

[MIKE46]

Not to be crass, but do you think God has a penis?

Well, to be honest, I’ve never thought about it.

I am concerned though that apparently you have done so and maybe still do.

Sad to say that in nature not all creatures that are Male have penises So your analogy really doesn’t work.

Since Jesus referred to God as the Father when praying, and incidentally taught the Apostles to pray in that fashion, I would think we should in the spirit of things speak of God the same way that He did and instructed the Apostles to do.

Or is that way somehow not politically correct or culturaly sensitive or something along those lines?

 

[manualman]

In our Parish, in some places in the Missal, where the word ‘men’ appears, our priest substitutes ‘people’

Catholicism is not about gender division, subjugation of women or feminism; these issues are divisive and that is not what this religion is about; yes, the two genders sometimes need to be segregated for the purpose of modesty

God is greater than all of us; we are a ‘subset’ of God and can only understand God using our limited intelligence and within the constraints of our language; I believe that God is genderless or put it another way, God is greater than the need for genders

Alexia, welcome to the bar brawl, I mean forums!

Your third paragraph is very good (though I’d say ‘image’ of God, not subset). Your second paragraph has merits too, but the first paragraph is the first few feet of a well trodden path that leads to disaster!

It is all very well to seek to comprehend and you’ve clearly done a bunch of homework on that end. But you MUST draw the line at disobedience and rewriting of christianity to serve your own conclusions. That’s how we’ve gotten to a place of fractured and impotent christianity in the world. The mass is supposed to be a point of unity for catholics worldwide. It cannot be so if every Tom, Dick and (er) Harriet rewrites it to his/her own whims and convictions. Revelation ALWAYS trumps inferred conclusion. Jesus chose incarnation as a man and told us to call God Father. Obscure or not, there is a reason. Do not discard revelation in favor of your own reasoning. This doesn’t necessarily mean God is a male (indeed, I doubt it very much!). But there is SOME reason he wants us to call Him Father. Ponder and pray.

 

[mariahloves]

Well, to be honest, I’ve never thought about it.

I am concerned though that apparently you have done so and maybe still do.

Sad to say that in nature not all creatures that are Male have penises So your analogy really doesn’t work.

Since Jesus referred to God as the Father when praying, and incidentally taught the Apostles to pray in that fashion, I would think we should in the spirit of things speak of God the same way that He did and instructed the Apostles to do.

Or is that way somehow not politically correct or culturaly sensitive or something along those lines?

Ok so we have established that God is male?

 

[Alexia2000]

Alexia, welcome to the bar brawl, I mean forums!

Your third paragraph is very good (though I’d say ‘image’ of God, not subset). Your second paragraph has merits too, but the first paragraph is the first few feet of a well trodden path that leads to disaster!

It is all very well to seek to comprehend and you’ve clearly done a bunch of homework on that end. But you MUST draw the line at disobedience and rewriting of christianity to serve your own conclusions. That’s how we’ve gotten to a place of fractured and impotent christianity in the world. The mass is supposed to be a point of unity for catholics worldwide. It cannot be so if every Tom, Dick and (er) Harriet rewrites it to his/her own whims and convictions. Revelation ALWAYS trumps inferred conclusion. Jesus chose incarnation as a man and told us to call God Father. Obscure or not, there is a reason. Do not discard revelation in favor of your own reasoning. This doesn’t necessarily mean God is a male (indeed, I doubt it very much!). But there is SOME reason he wants us to call Him Father. Ponder and pray.

Many thanks for the welcome

I have heard the phrase ‘in His own image’; however, I do not understand it, yet. To me, this phrase sounds like that God appears, feels and behaves like we do; this cannot be right; it just does not feel right to me. But I have a lot to learn and I am certain that I will find the answer at the RCIA gathering. Or maybe I will be enlightened on this forum once I get to grips with the search facility here

I totally agree with you. The word of God should not be changed for any reason; doing so will ‘water down’ the faith. I only know that at our parish, the priest (and the congregation) when reciting the ‘Profession of Faith’ substitute ‘people’ with ‘men’ in “For us men and for our salvation he came down from the heaven …”. I don’t know if this is right or wrong; I thought it must be correct since everyone else is doing it. I am in no position to argue, yet

 

[Corki]

That’s fine but there’s nothing wrong with not referring to God as He is there?

In your private prayer, nothing wrong with avoiding gender based pronouns. In lituugy, however, it would be very wrong to change any wording in approved texts to avoid referring to God as He.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Ok so we have established that God is male?

Mariahloves,

I have been reading many of your posts, and you remind me a lot of myself when I was your age. I admire your thirst for knowledge and for having the courage to take this journey of faith.
I am concerned that you seem to be looking for "black & white" answers to questions which really cannot have them. It has taken me nearly 40 years to understand what I do, and that is not much!

Here is some of the best spiritual advice I have ever been given, I offer it to you to help you on your journey:

~Pray often

~Pray as you can, not as you can’t. (IOW there are many different ways to pray, the rosary, lectio divina, Liturgy of the Hours, etc.- find what works for you, it does not matter how you pray, it’s that you pray

~Remember it is not "either/or" it is the ***“both/and”- ***God is bigger than ***“male” vs. “female”, *and we need to stop putting God into our petty little human “boxes”

~Surround yourself with “like-minded people”.

~find a “spiritual director”

~keep learning and asking questions

~be willing to live with the ***“mystery”, ***that is what "faith" is all about:getholy:

~PRAY OFTEN!`

Peace be with you on your journey!
I will keep you in my prayers!

 

[SunnaB16]

I have heard the phrase ‘in His own image’; however, I do not understand it, yet. To me, this phrase sounds like that God appears, feels and behaves like we do; this cannot be right; it just does not feel right to me. But I have a lot to learn and I am certain that I will find the answer at the RCIA gathering. Or maybe I will be enlightened on this forum once I get to grips with the search facility here

I totally agree with you. The word of God should not be changed for any reason; doing so will ‘water down’ the faith. I only know that at our parish, the priest** (and the congregation) when reciting the ‘Profession of Faith’ substitute ‘people’ with ‘men’ in “For us men and for our salvation he came down from the heaven …”. I don’t know if this is right or wrong; I thought it must be correct since everyone else is doing it.** I am in no position to argue, yet

Man is made in the image and likeness of God because he (Man) has an immortal spiritual soul which is the seat of the intellect and the will.
Also, by being created male and female: the marital union between husband and wife is (supposed to be) a reflection of the Total Self-giving Love between Father and Son, ie the Holy Spirit. Genesis 1:27: “Male and female He created them.”.

As far as the congregation goes: most people follow along like a pack of bl**dy sheep, or even worse: lemmings.

God the Father is the generating Principle in the Godhead (already mentioned). The male of the species is, also.

Mariahloves:
Please read post # 52, which includes Palaeologos`s summary of the inner Life of the Trinity,

No “Inclusive” language here, mate!