Not attending brother's wedding

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Apryl:

“But why is not attending the wedding seen as a ‘condemnation’?”
–Do you really need to ask? As to why, the reason non-attendance would be seen as a condemnation is due to a) the unique nature of weddings (this is not a family picnic); b) the reason for not going is rooted in a personal disapproval of the event; c) the close ties to the groom (this isn’t a second cousin, twice removed, who the OP last saw 3 years ago; and d) the fact that, people being human, the guests will assume that given a, b, & c, the non-attendance will be perceived as a condemnation,

'Why does one, ANYONE, have to attend every event to which they are invited?"
–They don’t…but your brother’s wedding is hardly “every event.”
–Americans have, by and large, lost the concept of “appropriate behavior” and its corollary, “doing your duty,” Many are caught up in the concept of whether “going is a sin,” or, for that matter, whether anything is a sin. However, some actions are simply morally neutral – but they “need doing.”

An example, to me, of a morally neutral event which nevertheless “needs doing” is attending the funeral of a close relative. I knew a young lady (30s, i.e., not a teenager) who never really expended any effort to see her grandparents. They sent her cards, called her, etc., but she never really made much time for them, When they got sick, she never visited, saying she “couldn’t bear to see them like that.” Then, when they died, she wailed, bawled, cried her eyes out…and spend 20 minutes at the funeral. Do I think what she did was a sin? No. Do I think what she did was inappropriate socially, disrespectful, etc.? Yes, I do. I don’t buy the claptrap of “funerals are hard.” Sure they are…but we go, because its appropriate, and “needs doing.” Brother’s wedding is the same,

“And while I’m at it: where do you get that we are called to love and lead others by love and not condemnation?”
–From Jesus, what’s where. Jesus commanded us to love everyone - sinners, those who hurt us, etc., especially. We are never commanded to condemn.

“In some cases, condemnation is the best way to show love.”
–Sorry, that is a complete cop-out. It is way, way too easy for many people to sit in their ivory towers, condemning others around them, while smirking and saying, “I’m showing them love by condemning them!” It’s a cop out because love and condemnation are diametrically opposed. We don’t show love by condemning, just as we don’t EVER show love by violence, neglect, hatred, etc. In fact, I would think that lots and lots of people who are “whited sepulcres” reason that they are loving others by condemning them - which is, of course, facially absurd.

As to the examples of buying cigarettes or alcohol for addicts, that is not what’s being discussed here. You know that.

As for literally anyone else who thinks “going is a sin” under these circumstances - a) the OP’s brother (close relative) is having b) his first and presumably only marriage c) to a Christian woman on presumably her first marriage; d) in a Christian church; which is e) presumptively valid. You think ATTENDING that wedding is a SIN? OH PUHLEEZE. Get your heads into the real world, and quit being so judgemental of people…and, while you’re at it, live the Gospels and show a little LOVE.
 
“But why is not attending the wedding seen as a ‘condemnation’?”
–Do you really need to ask? As to why, the reason non-attendance would be seen as a condemnation is due to a) the unique nature of weddings (this is not a family picnic); b) the reason for not going is rooted in a personal disapproval of the event; c) the close ties to the groom (this isn’t a second cousin, twice removed, who the OP last saw 3 years ago; and d) the fact that, people being human, the guests will assume that given a, b, & c, the non-attendance will be perceived as a condemnation,

'Why does one, ANYONE, have to attend every event to which they are invited?"
–They don’t…but your brother’s wedding is hardly “every event.”
–Americans have, by and large, lost the concept of “appropriate behavior” and its corollary, “doing your duty,” Many are caught up in the concept of whether “going is a sin,” or, for that matter, whether anything is a sin. However, some actions are simply morally neutral – but they “need doing.”
Um… see, I see this like the woman who INSISTS on wearing a white gown and veil to her wedding because it’s her first wedding… but she’s been living with her fiance for three years and they already have a child. :rolleyes:

Hunh???

If the guy (the brother in question) is so stuck on structure and appropriate behavior… why is this even a topic we’re discussing. :confused:

As I stated already: I believe the OP should go to the wedding.

I do NOT, otoh, think that every thing that happens should be excused or given some sort of a pass. 😛
 
Apryl:

“But why is not attending the wedding seen as a ‘condemnation’?”
–Do you really need to ask? As to why, the reason non-attendance would be seen as a condemnation is due to a) the unique nature of weddings (this is not a family picnic); b) the reason for not going is rooted in a personal disapproval of the event; c) the close ties to the groom (this isn’t a second cousin, twice removed, who the OP last saw 3 years ago; and d) the fact that, people being human, the guests will assume that given a, b, & c, the non-attendance will be perceived as a condemnation,

'Why does one, ANYONE, have to attend every event to which they are invited?"
–They don’t…but your brother’s wedding is hardly “every event.”
–Americans have, by and large, lost the concept of “appropriate behavior” and its corollary, “doing your duty,” Many are caught up in the concept of whether “going is a sin,” or, for that matter, whether anything is a sin. However, some actions are simply morally neutral – but they “need doing.”

An example, to me, of a morally neutral event which nevertheless “needs doing” is attending the funeral of a close relative. I knew a young lady (30s, i.e., not a teenager) who never really expended any effort to see her grandparents. They sent her cards, called her, etc., but she never really made much time for them, When they got sick, she never visited, saying she “couldn’t bear to see them like that.” Then, when they died, she wailed, bawled, cried her eyes out…and spend 20 minutes at the funeral. Do I think what she did was a sin? No. Do I think what she did was inappropriate socially, disrespectful, etc.? Yes, I do. I don’t buy the claptrap of “funerals are hard.” Sure they are…but we go, because its appropriate, and “needs doing.” Brother’s wedding is the same,

“And while I’m at it: where do you get that we are called to love and lead others by love and not condemnation?”
–From Jesus, what’s where. Jesus commanded us to love everyone - sinners, those who hurt us, etc., especially. We are never commanded to condemn.

“In some cases, condemnation is the best way to show love.”
–Sorry, that is a complete cop-out. It is way, way too easy for many people to sit in their ivory towers, condemning others around them, while smirking and saying, “I’m showing them love by condemning them!” It’s a cop out because love and condemnation are diametrically opposed. We don’t show love by condemning, just as we don’t EVER show love by violence, neglect, hatred, etc. In fact, I would think that lots and lots of people who are “whited sepulcres” reason that they are loving others by condemning them - which is, of course, facially absurd.

As to the examples of buying cigarettes or alcohol for addicts, that is not what’s being discussed here. You know that.

As for literally anyone else who thinks “going is a sin” under these circumstances - a) the OP’s brother (close relative) is having b) his first and presumably only marriage c) to a Christian woman on presumably her first marriage; d) in a Christian church; which is e) presumptively valid. You think ATTENDING that wedding is a SIN? OH PUHLEEZE. Get your heads into the real world, and quit being so judgemental of people…and, while you’re at it, live the Gospels and show a little LOVE.
Can you please elaborate a little bit more on your concept of “doing your duty” in the situation of morally neutral things? I am confused because my own idea of doing my duty is to do what is morally right and avoiding what is morally wrong. If I am in the presence of something that is neutral (indifferent as a possible synonym?) I do not feel any obligation either way.

You are correct when you say that love and condemnation are diametrically opposite. However we can (and must) love people and condemn their harmful behaviors. We cannot condemn anyone to hell, it is not our prerogative; however it is our duty to do our best to help them to go to heaven. The second part is where moral dilemma like this one come to exist.

I also agree with you that sometime people use improper expressions of condemnation as a cop-out. However, I do not think that the O.P. is looking for a cop-out and the other posters do not have any direct involvement and so they do not need a cop-out.
 
I have read a few of the posts on this thread but not all of them. The question which comes to me is this one. If rather than this being your brother’s wedding being held at that church it was his funeral…would you attend? Sobering question isn’t it? One day it will be. How will you feel about things then? We have all heard many times that as Christians we are to love the sinner not the sin. You are not responsable for the change your brother has made. He knows you don’t agree and that is very important. Let’s jump ahead a few years. Let’s say you do not go to the wedding and one day the marriage breaks up ( hopefully not ).Where will the relationship with you and your brother be then? Your brother is your brother for life.Support him in this milestone in his life. It could be the very action which could bring him back to the Catholic Church. It would prove to him your love for him is greater than the disappointment and grief he has caused your family.I have never understood the concept of family members disowning one another.We don’t own each other. We can’t suddenly pretend they don’t exist. If we believe that God is who has brought us together as a family than to disown a member of God’s work I am guessing is not something He would want us to do.I guess the best proof of this is the Prodigal Son . No matter what, he was welcomed back… and loved.God bless. NLM
 
“And while I’m at it: where do you get that we are called to love and lead others by love and not condemnation?”
–From Jesus, what’s where. Jesus commanded us to love everyone - sinners, those who hurt us, etc., especially. We are never commanded to condemn.

“In some cases, condemnation is the best way to show love.”
–Sorry, that is a complete cop-out. It is way, way too easy for many people to sit in their ivory towers, condemning others around them, while smirking and saying, “I’m showing them love by condemning them!” It’s a cop out because love and condemnation are diametrically opposed.
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rabbit.gif http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rabbit.gif

I recall Jesus overturning tables, looking at people with anger, and giving step-by-step criteria for fraternal correction that ultimately allows for shunning the person if he does not listen. I don’t recall where Jesus reversed what was said in Ezekiel where we are to correct the sinner otherwise we could be held responsible for his sins as well.

I also don’t recall Jesus saying that we should keep the family relationships open at all costs, but rather that He came here to divide father against son, etc.
 
I don’t want to get too involved in this discussion, but this jumps out at me…when did Jesus give instruction to His followers to ‘shun’ people who didn’t follow Truth? I recall that He suggested ‘‘shaking the dust from one’s feet’’ and leave a particular village, if the people there didn’t ‘‘listen.’’ I don’t recall telling people to ‘shun’ others. I would like to see particular passages that illustrate this. Thank you!
 
I don’t want to get too involved in this discussion, but this jumps out at me…when did Jesus give instruction to His followers to ‘shun’ people who didn’t follow Truth? I recall that He suggested ‘‘shaking the dust from one’s feet’’ and leave a particular village, if the people there didn’t ‘‘listen.’’ I don’t recall telling people to ‘shun’ others. I would like to see particular passages that illustrate this. Thank you!
Matthew 18:15-17:

“If he ignores even the church, treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector”.
 
I don’t want to get too involved in this discussion, but this jumps out at me…when did Jesus give instruction to His followers to ‘shun’ people who didn’t follow Truth? I recall that He suggested ‘‘shaking the dust from one’s feet’’ and leave a particular village, if the people there didn’t ‘‘listen.’’ I don’t recall telling people to ‘shun’ others. I would like to see particular passages that illustrate this. Thank you!
When Jesus said to shake the dust of their feet and to leave does that not mean to avoid them? To shun is to avoid deliberately. Don’t the two things go together?

I am just trying to clear my understanding. Is shunning also commonly used to mean condemnation of an individual and not just avoidance? In this case shunning should not be used.
 
Matthew 18:15-17:

“If he ignores even the church, treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector”.
*That deals with sins that someone commits against another person. How is the OP’s brother sinning against him? He is sinning against God, and yes, we are to gently admonish a fellow Christian when he/she is in sin…and to NOT do that, doesn’t show love. It is loving to wish that our brothers and sisters repent. But, in reference to this passage, this involves when someone commits a sin against a person in private. *
 
That deals with sins that someone commits against another person. How is the OP’s brother sinning against him? He is sinning against God, and yes, we are to gently admonish a fellow Christian when he/she is in sin…and to NOT do that, doesn’t show love. It is loving to wish that our brothers and sisters repent. But, in reference to this passage, this involves when someone commits a sin against a person in private.
When we sin, we sin against every member of the Church and we harm them. That is why we go to confession, we need to be reconciled with the Church and not just ask for God’s forgiveness.
 
*Nevermind, I can somewhat see in reflecting more on this–that really, the OP’s brother, by his own ‘‘sin’’…would **choose to **exclude himself from others. But, this is a tricky situation, whether or not to attend the wedding. I think the problem is that many Catholics refuse Church teachings, but then they want others to ‘‘accept’’ their choices (sins) who are Catholics. We can meet people where they are, and love them…but we can’t accept sin. It goes against who we are as Catholics, so I guess in a sense, that passage would be fitting here.

Interesting. *
 
When we sin, we sin against every member of the Church and we harm them. That is why we go to confession, we need to be reconciled with the Church and not just ask for God’s forgiveness.
As I thought about it, yes, I got it. 🙂
 
That deals with sins that someone commits against another person. How is the OP’s brother sinning against him? He is sinning against God, and yes, we are to gently admonish a fellow Christian when he/she is in sin…and to NOT do that, doesn’t show love. It is loving to wish that our brothers and sisters repent. But, in reference to this passage, this involves when someone commits a sin against a person in private.
I was originally speaking in general against the fuzzy-wuzzies posted earlier.
 
That deals with sins that someone commits against another person. How is the OP’s brother sinning against him? He is sinning against God, and yes, we are to gently admonish a fellow Christian when he/she is in sin…and to NOT do that, doesn’t show love. It is loving to wish that our brothers and sisters repent. But, in reference to this passage, this involves when someone commits a sin against a person in private.
Because a sin against God is a sin against His Bride - The Church. We are members of the Church, we are members of the Body of Christ, we are part of His Bride. No sin is private, every sin harms the entire Body of Christ.
 
When Jesus said to shake the dust of their feet and to leave does that not mean to avoid them? To shun is to avoid deliberately. Don’t the two things go together?

I am just trying to clear my understanding. Is shunning also commonly used to mean condemnation of an individual and not just avoidance? In this case shunning should not be used.
*In the reflections I pulled up a moment ago, it’s really not about the person who is offended, shunning the ‘‘sinner.’’ It’s rather that the sinner is choosing to be ‘‘out of the pack.’’ As Christians, we are to leave the door open for when that person decides to come back in the fold, so to speak…and thus be forgiving. We must always be forgiving, but the sinner has to WANT to be forgiven, is the key. I find that interpretation/reflection to be of great value when thinking about situations like this. So we really should never shun a person who is in sin…but rather by not accepting where they are in sin…that person most likely chooses to separate him/herself. I have often heard this explanation when it comes to hell…God doesn’t ‘‘send us’’ there, we choose to go there through our earthly actions of turning our backs on God. *
 
I have read a few of the posts on this thread but not all of them. The question which comes to me is this one. If rather than this being your brother’s wedding being held at that church it was his funeral…would you attend?
Apples and snowshoes.

An invalid marriage is a mockery of a Sacrament, it is a grave sin and shows the public intention to continue in a grave sin.

A funeral is not a public recognition of a desire to contiune in obstinate sin.
 
Apples and snowshoes.

An invalid marriage is a mockery of a Sacrament, it is a grave sin and shows the public intention to continue in a grave sin.
A funeral is not a public recognition of a desire to contiune in obstinate sin.
*bolded for emphasis mine…

So by attending, then it can be construed that the attendee would be in agreement with the public display of grave sin? *
 
Because a sin against God is a sin against His Bride - The Church. We are members of the Church, we are members of the Body of Christ, we are part of His Bride. No sin is private, every sin harms the entire Body of Christ.
Yes, I know…I pressed "submit reply’’ a bit too soon, in my above posts. 😃
 
*bolded for emphasis mine…

So by attending, then it can be construed that the attendee would be in agreement with the public display of grave sin? *
YES!

To the sinning couple and to those watching it shows approval of the sin.
 
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