Redbandito:
You contradicted yourself in this post. On the one hand, you admit (as the Catholic position states) that works are the fruit of an “already justified” person and cite the exact verse you should (Eph 2:10). You go so far as to point out that these good works come FROM CHRIST! Yet, you then go on to say on the other hand, that somehow we can boast about these “grace infused works.” How is that exactly? If my works are the product of grace, and not of me, how is that I can boast in them?
I haven’t contradicted myself. The problem is you don’t really understand the distinctions being made. Let me help you. Justification is by faith alone. It is justification, which is our being made right with God that is by faith alone. It is justification that determines our eternal destiny and therefore if this is by grace infused works or any other works one may boast. The good works that are the fruit of the “already justified” has no bearing on our eternal destiny and therefore cannot be used as a basis for boasting in that regard. However, if grace infused works are the basis for you justification then you could boast, because the one who does not go to heaven did not add works to grace like you did.
Redbandito:
And furthermore, does not this same line of logic apply to faith then? If one can boast about their works that are not of them, can they not also boast about their “faith” (in your theology- an intellectual assent) that is not of them? Logical inconsistency prevents this position from being a reasonable one. Not to mention, it does not follow the Scriptures.
First, I don’t believe faith is an intellectual assent only. Faith is also based on knowledge, assenting, and a trusting. Second, the same line of logic does not apply to faith because Scripture does not apply it to faith. As I have pointed out in other replies to you faith is always contrasted to works and is on the side of grace. As a matter of fact the Scriptures explicitly say one cannot boast in reference to faith:
Romans 3:27
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.
Boasting is excluded on the principle of faith, because as the Apostle goes on to say in the next chapter of Romans, faith accords with grace!!
Redbandito:
You rightly state that our works are the product of our justification. You then wrongly state that we can boast about them. Furthermore, the Jews were not boasting about “loving their neighbor,” (the product of grace) but rather their close observation of the Mosaic ceremonial law (i.e. Circumcision).
The Jews boasted them all. You see this in the parable of the Pharisee:
Luke 18:11
11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that
I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
So we see it was much more than the ceremonial law. The same is true for the Apostle Paul when he was a Pharisee:
Philippians 3: 6-5
If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews;
in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6as for zeal, persecuting the church;
as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
So we see the Apostle Paul spoke of his reason for having confidence in the flesh. It included circumcision, but it was much more. It also included keeping the moral law.
Redbandito:
Romans 4:5 is the perfect example of this. Again, Paul just began the conversation distinguishing “faith” from “works of the law” (despite your denial of this) in Romans 3:28. He continues this thought through the beginning of Romans 4, which is evident by the fact that he uses the term “works” almost interchangeably with “circumcision.”
The early context of Romans 4 is dealing with Abraham’s justification before the ceremonial law was even established.!! Yet, it still speaks of Abraham not being able to boast based on works. This blows your “works” equal “ceremonial law” position out of the water. However, even Romans 3 refutes your position. Read verses 3:10-18 and it talks about all kinds of moral issues and therefore declares because of the Jew and Gentile failure in keeping this law, they cannot be justified by observing the law(i.e. works).
Redbandito:
Thus, citing Romans 4:5 as you have, only goes to strengthen the Catholic position that it is not in becoming Jewish and obeying the Jewish ceremonial law that we are justified and adopted into God’s family (as if we could somehow obligate Him to give us such a gift), but rather God is pleased by our faith and repentance (and yes, BAPTISM) and thus adopts us into His family, where He gives us the transformative grace that we might attempt to do good without wanting to try to obligate Him.
Well, this is eisegsis my friend. Futhermore, even Catholics disagree with you that works of law equal ceremonial law.
