Not Convinced

[HelenRose]

Ok…so you are allowing that the assertion that the Catholic Church alone contains the fullnes of truth is RELATIVE and not absolute?

No, I believe that the fullness of truth lies within the Catholic Church however, there is truth in other faiths.

I am not a scholar so my comments are more in line with an intuitive nature.

The truth that I see in Islam is the importance of the “Will” of God. “It is God’s will. Praise be to God”

The truth that I see in Hinduism is the concept of the infinite glory of time, space and the universe.

The truth that I see in Buddhism is the need to die to self in order to reach perfection.

The Church, through the Holy Scriptures, has all these elements in addition to teaching mankind the part that God has played in our lives, souls, time and space.

It is not my purpose to convince you anymore than it is my purpose the convince my wonderful son-in-law who is a Buddhist. I can only state what my beliefs are and to the best of my ability try to explain how I have arrived at these beliefs.

 

[inJESUS]

be my guest…

I suppose you believe that I’m going to hell

not necessarily

Nothing said on this topic today has made me believe that the Catholic Church (or any Christian sect for that matter) has the truth.

God giving opposite teachings , God relying on our tastes ecc are not arguments we agree on in the first place …if we are to project our views on God, then all humans can be prophets and write their own books…but if we agree that God does not contradict Himself, then we will start by the idea that some of the books are not from God.

 

[Ahimsa]

There are Hindus and Buddhists who are excellent scientists who will rigourously abide by “no mutualy contradictory positions can both be true at the same time” when dealing with science matters, but when it comes to religion “all paths lead to the same place”

St Paul in Romans 5:18: “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.”

Seems like St. Paul would disagree with Aristotelian logic.

 

[Ahimsa]

Is that why he gave us canine teeth? Plan B?

Canine teeth are part of our evolutionary heritage. We humans are loathe to not use them.

 

[mercygate]

Canine teeth are part of our evolutionary heritage. We humans are loathe to not use them.

Same to you.

 

[inJESUS]

Neil,

What makes *you *believe your scripture is from God?

 

[Neil_LA]

Neil,

What makes *you *believe your scripture is from God?

They give very detailed accounts of creation in a much more precise way than the Judeo-Christian Bible.

They give very detailed accounts of history of this planet and other planets.

They give very detailed accounts of human development and growth on both the physical and spiritual levels.

They give insights into things that modern science has only known about for a relatively short time.

For good example of what I’m talking about refer to Kapila’s discource to Devahutti in the Third Skanda of the Bhagavata Mahapurana.

 

[holy_wood]

Neil LA

Can you tell me exactly who you think Jesus is and by what historical support to get to that belief?

Like others have posted Jesus claimed to be the only truth. So he cannot simply be Krishna for the Jews.

Do you believe in angels and demons?

 

[inJESUS]

They give very detailed accounts of creation in a much more precise way than the Judeo-Christian Bible.

They give very detailed accounts of history of this planet and other planets.

 

[Neil_LA]

how can you make sure the details are correct?

 

[inJESUS]

yet you blamed us for having trust in the testimony of the people who heard Jesus, saw Him crucified and raised as He said.

Why should i trust in a book because of its science and not trust the people who heard Jesus saying He will die and raise in 3 days and saw it in their own eyes?

 

[Neil_LA]

yet you blamed us for having trust in the testimony of the people who heard Jesus, saw Him crucified and raised as He said.

If you read my posts, I am not denying that Jesus rose from the dead. I have no problem with that. God can do amazing things.

Yet again - I just have a problem with the view that Jesus is the ONLY incarnation of God and that the Bible is the ONLY scripture and the the Catholic Church is the ONLY religion that has the “fullness of truth.”

Why do Catholics insist this? Every Christian sect says it has the absolute truth…and yet they all fight with each other.

If it was the ONLY truth, then I think it would be self evident and everyone would agree with it.

Maybe Christianity needs to admit that it is an expression of an ASPECT of the truth, just as all the other faiths of the world.

 

[Margarite]

inJESUS;3606448:

If you read my posts, I am not denying that Jesus rose from the dead. I have no problem with that. God can do amazing things.

You see, we Catholics think that it is fairly self evident that the Catholic faith is the only faith. I think that the reason we are having trouble arguing against what you say is because very few Catholic have had to argue their faith against non-Christians or at least non-Abrahamic (as you put it) faiths.
It is so strange to us that we are suddenly realizing that we need to dig deeper and learn more about our own faith.
You seem as though you have done allot of reading in your “scriptures”, well, we have also done allot of reading, but with Christians or at least Abrahamic religions in mind. I had never even thought of meeting someone like you who believed in multiple “incarnations” of God I had never even thought of such a possibility, but now I am realizing that there is such a religion out there.
I am a cradle Catholic, so one of my many faults is that I take some of what I believe for granted because I just don’t realize that others don’t believe that way. Call me naive, I am.
Well, I got to go shopping.
Write to you later.

 

[HelenRose]

inJESUS;3606389:

Like I said, much of what the scriptures say about the field of the physical realm has been confirmed by non-vedic science.

Again…its about trust.

When I look at the Vedic scriptures
and I look at the Judeo-Christian scriptures

I believe that Vedic scriptures and Vedic culture are much more trustworthy.

Christianity has only been in existance for 2000 years…and look at all the damage to the world its already done!

I don’t think that western culture is all that its cracked up to be.

I think its a shame that Bharatavarsh is turning its back on its heritage…

Will this thread turn from a rather interesting discussion of the different faiths in the world to a “let us bash Western Civilization” tirade? If so, I am out of here.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Will this thread turn from a rather interesting discussion of the different faiths in the world to a “let us bash Western Civilization” tirade? If so, I am out of here.

I enjoy them. I find it particularly delicious that most of the anti Western sentiments comes from Westerners via Western media forms. If it does go that way just watch with delight as they dig themselves deeper.

 

[Neil_LA]

I enjoy them. I find it particularly delicious that most of the anti Western sentiments comes from Westerners via Western media forms. If it does go that way just watch with delight as they dig themselves deeper.

Maybe we can take the best of all the world…the “west” isn’t totally awful…
I like the internet, central heating and flush toilets…

 

[LDNCatholic]

Maybe we can take the best of all the world…the “west” isn’t totally awful…
I like the internet, central heating and flush toilets…

Oh please don’t get me wrong, I’m not ‘‘pro Western’’ by any means, I just think the middle class whites (or blacks, or Latinos, or Desis or East Asians, but it is mostly the former) who ‘‘reject’’ Western civilisation yet can’t give up the incredible luxuries it affords are funny.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Neil LA;3604912]

“Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” Psalm 137:9

Did you happen to read the whole psalm? If you had you would have realized that the Thy Is Babylon and the little one is the citizens of the city. This it written about the captivity of Israel in Babylonia, It may have included the children but was aimed at the captors.

 

[Neil_LA]

Neil LA;3606481:

inJESUS;3606448:

You see, we Catholics think that it is fairly self evident that the Catholic faith is the only faith. I think that the reason we are having trouble arguing against what you say is because very few Catholic have had to argue their faith against non-Christians or at least non-Abrahamic (as you put it) faiths.
It is so strange to us that we are suddenly realizing that we need to dig deeper and learn more about our own faith.
You seem as though you have done allot of reading in your “scriptures”, well, we have also done allot of reading, but with Christians or at least Abrahamic religions in mind. I had never even thought of meeting someone like you who believed in multiple “incarnations” of God I had never even thought of such a possibility, but now I am realizing that there is such a religion out there.
I am a cradle Catholic, so one of my many faults is that I take some of what I believe for granted because I just don’t realize that others don’t believe that way. Call me naive, I am.
Well, I got to go shopping.
Write to you later.

Ok, so you’re admitting your fundemental ignorance and you are also admitting that you’re willing to open you’re mind and heart.

That’s wonderful…that’s all I’m really asking for. For Christians to admit that the world is bigger than THEIR world and that God might show Himself to others in other ways.

I’m not asking anyone to believe what I do (that would get boring) but I am asking for the same respect from Christians and I just don’t usually believe that I receive it. I just usually get a sence of smug superiority “We have the TRUTH and YOU don’t and so YOU’RE going to hell.”

At least post Vatican II Catholics aren’t as bad as the Orthodox Christians…

Just acknowledge that there might be the possibility (however remote) that Jesus Christ might not be the only Word of God…Why would God only speak one Word?

Why would this diminish the Glory of Jesus? Jesus is unique and beautiful…but every incarnation of God is beautiful and unique…

Why would God only offer His (or Her) children only one way to approach Him?

Sure Jesus said “I AM the way the truth and the life…” but what does that mean?

I propose that we broaden our outlook on these things…

 

[Neil_LA]

Margarite;3606531:

Neil LA;3606481:

Ok, so you’re admitting your fundemental ignorance and you are also admitting that you’re willing to open you’re mind and heart.

That’s wonderful…that’s all I’m really asking for. For Christians to admit that the world is bigger than THEIR world and that God might show Himself to others in other ways.

I’m not asking anyone to believe what I do (that would get boring) but I am asking for the same respect from Christians and I just don’t usually believe that I receive it. I just usually get a sence of smug superiority “We have the TRUTH and YOU don’t and so YOU’RE going to hell.”

At least post Vatican II Catholics aren’t as bad as the Orthodox Christians…

Just acknowledge that there might be the possibility (however remote) that Jesus Christ might not be the only Word of God…Why would God only speak one Word?

Why would this diminish the Glory of Jesus? Jesus is unique and beautiful…but every incarnation of God is beautiful and unique…

Why would God only offer His (or Her) children only one way to approach Him?

Sure Jesus said “I AM the way the truth and the life…” but what does that mean?

I propose that we broaden our outlook on these things…

OOPS!!! I meat to edit my post, not quote it! sorry