Not Convinced

[Neil_LA]

Because all Christians believe that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The Word of God is the truth the way and the life.Jesus is the life and the Truth. The reason you asked is because the Word of God say’s that Jesus is the Truth and nobody goes to the Father except through him. The Roman Catholic church was instituted by Jesus himself the Word of God made flesh. On the “Rock” of St. Peter, to which all the apostles and early church fathers and successors of the apostles and martyrs have attested to this fact.

Secondly, The creator is believed in by many cultures and peoples. The Word of God made flesh has revealed the mystery of God to humanity and built his Church upon Peter (Kephas) in order for his body on earth the Roman Catholic church has been given the command to go out and baptise, teach and feed every tongue and nation what Jesus has revealed to the Catholic church. This is the mission of the Roman Catholic church. And many a Pope, Bishops, and Catholilc christian have layed down their lives for this testament, not with anger, not with strife, not for the purpose of self gain, but for the Truth to be revealed in his body on earth the Roman Catholic church so as to proclaim Jesus lives. This Jesus the Word of God resurrected will come soon for his bride the Catholic church.

Thirdly, man has always sought out God the creator , In many ways by sacrificial victims, through nature, through mans own intelligence. But these although seek the creator and God knows his creation. That is why by his love and mercy, God sent his only begotten Son Jesus to bring back to the True worship and to come to the revealed mystery of the Father through his Son Jesus Christ. God has granted man his mercy through his Son to reconcile humanity to himself.

This is why when Jesus was crucified he went down to sheol to preach to the prisoners of death, and set the captives free. Jesus now resurrected who lives in his body on earth the Roman Catholic church issues the command for the living to repent and b e baptised in the revealed name Father,Son and Holy Spirit. And as new created Children of the living God, in order to have eternal life, those his children must eat his body and drink his blood in order to have eternal life, that is why death has lost its sting to the baptised children of God.

This is the Fullness of Truth proclaimed for the last 2000 years with the testimonies, witnesses, and martyrs that have lived who seen and witnessed with their own eyes and lives that Jesus is the Truth and the life.

When one from other religions learn of this Truth, they will find that through the blessed Trinity, their way of worship and religion is fulfilled in the Sacraments that Jesus instituted in his Catholic church. This is the fullness of Truth revealed in the Roman Catholic church. For when one comes to meet our creator in the sacrificial body,blood, soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. The thirst for God is made full and yet overfilleth the soul, that one does not thirst anymore. One is made perfect before God who consumes the body and blood of Jesus christ in the blessed Sacrament of the Eucahrist.

The mercy of God is this, seek him and you will find him, knock and the door will be opened.

Peace be with you

Your premise comes from a basis of accepting what the Bible and the Church say is true.

You sincerely believe and trust what your scripture and tradition teach. I can respect that.

I just don’t understand your need to dismiss other scriptures and traditions.

My scriptures teach that God is eternal, too and that God comes to Earth to renew spirituality.

I don’t see why Christians (of all sects) need to destroy other traditions to build their own up.

This has been the case in the past and is the case today.

The history of the violent persecution of dissidents and non-believers by the Catholic Church makes me have a very difficult time taking what you say very seriously.

 

[Neil_LA]

Yes, vegetarianism is God’s original plan for mankind. Many Jews are vegetarian for that reason.

But we humans are imperfect, so God has to “modify” his original plan now and then.

Sounds like God is being inconsistant. I thought someone here said God could NEVER be inconsistant.

Hmmmm…

 

[LDNCatholic]

Sounds like God is being inconsistant. I thought someone here said God could NEVER be inconsistant.

Hmmmm…

How is it inconsistant? He both frees and limits us as He wills.

 

[Neil_LA]

How is it inconsistant? He both frees and limits us as He wills.

He originally says “be vegetarian” then he says “never mind, eat animal flesh.”

Which is true?

And then God says “Thou shall not kill (murder)” and then he says
“Its ok to kill all those people who live where I want you to live.”

And the psalmist in the psalm quoted earlier says its ok to kill infants. Its in the Bible, it must be true.

I’m sorry, that just seems strange to me.

 

[LDNCatholic]

He originally says “be vegetarian” then he says “never mind, eat animal flesh.”

Which is true?

And then God says “Thou shall not kill (murder)” and then he says
“Its ok to kill all those people who live where I want you to live.”

And the psalmist in the psalm quoted earlier says its ok to kill infants. Its in the Bible, it must be true.

I’m sorry, that just seems strange to me.

He didn’t say ‘‘be vegetarian’’ He gave us a list of that which we could eat. Later He expanded that list.

If God directly speaks to you and orders their death (doesn’t happen any more) then those people are already dead. God would have struck them down anyway. God commands, the people of God do.

 

[HelenRose]

This question is not to be answered by debating … although this can be interesting and often quite fun.

Believing and accepting faith is such a personal decision. I can only relate why I have come to believe that the Catholic Church has the “fullness” of God’s truth. I can’t prove anything.

I had struggled many years with my own beliefs. A dear friend of my is a BaHai, so I became interested in what she believed and thought that it made a great deal of sense. However, when it came down to it and I was to believe that Christ was one of several manifestations of God I felt that I had run into a brick wall. I simply could not emotionally, intellectually or spiritually do that. I was surprised at my own reaction and realized that I truly believed in Christ as He is taught in Christianity.

I then turned to Catholicism because I realized that the Church was the standard by which all Christian Church’s are measured - either pro or con.

None of this can be debated. I could never convince anyone that my reasoning is sound. It is is impossible the explain what it means to be in love with my Church.

I truly believe that each one of us is on a journey and God is leading us to where He wants us to go. I believe with my entire being that the Catholic Church is the answer; and God will somehow lead all those who search for truth to the Church.

How and when this can come about is a mystery and can only be understood through His Divine Mercy.

I want to add that true faith is an decision of love. The intellect is important in this search but one’s heart leads the way.

 

[DCD]

Oh…ok…killing children is murder as well…so is killing Amorites, Perezites, Hittites, Jebusites, Philistines, Og King of Bashan, etc…I think that the “chosen people” and Catholics have murdered uncountable people over the years…seem rather inconsistant…

I’m not as extreme as the Jains are…I eat potatoes and carrots.

Consider the following and reflect upon it because only in this sense can these texts be properly understood.

All the above peoples you have cited stand symbollicaly for all of those forces who are opposed to GOD. Israel stands for the grace and purpose of GOD. In the bible the Israelites stand for everything that is good in us and our communities. So the scriptures are full of battles and struggles. Because life is full of struggles. These battles which you are trying to make sense of are the same battles that are repeated again and again in salvation history. These are the same battles that are ongoing in your own heart. There can be no compromise, prisoners, or surrender. A compromise with evil will always lead to far greater suffering at some point down the road.

If you had a brain tumor and your doctor told you, well we got 95% of it. Would that give you comfort? Evil has to be snuffed out because it is the absence of good. Reread these texts not only as historical but spiritualy as well. It is easy to read a meaning into the text that is not there. This is one of the reasons that we can make the claim to having The Fullness of Truth. If I were to read the text the way you suggest then it would cause me difficulties as well. However when you read the text in the Tradition of the Church it makes more sense. Which I hope is demonstrated in this post.

Note: This commentary comes from Origen of Alexandria. One of the greatest thinkers of christianity. Have we become so arrogant to think we have a better sense of the text, 2000 years removed from the time and culture?

God Bless,
DCD

 

[Margarite]

Neil LA,
Do you believe that God is Truth?
And do you believe that there is truth and untruth, right and wrong?

 

[Neil_LA]

He didn’t say ‘‘be vegetarian’’ He gave us a list of that which we could eat. Later He expanded that list.

If God directly speaks to you and orders their death (doesn’t happen any more) then those people are already dead. God would have struck them down anyway. God commands, the people of God do.

Ok…God is arbitrary…I’m sure if somebody said that God told them to kill a bunch of people, we would lock them away…

Didn’t the 911 people think they were doing God’s will?

 

[LDNCatholic]

Ok…God is arbitrary…I’m sure if somebody said that God told them to kill a bunch of people, we would lock them away…

Didn’t the 911 people think they were doing God’s will?

Don’t get me started on that. The fact is, the Bible says God spoke directly to certain people. In the carrying out of His will, people died. Very few religions can claim a bloodless history.

 

[Neil_LA]

My question STILL hasn’t been answered:

What makes you say that YOUR scriptures and tradition vaild, to the exclusion of everything else?

Please keep the conversation on topic.

Thank you!

 

[Neil_LA]

Don’t get me started on that. The fact is, the Bible says God spoke directly to certain people. In the carrying out of His will, people died. Very few religions can claim a bloodless history.

True…Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita tell Arjuna to fight the battle…

But why is the Bible valid scripture and word of God, and the Bhagavad Gita isn’t?

 

[LDNCatholic]

My question STILL hasn’t been answered:

What makes you say that YOUR scriptures and tradition vaild, to the exclusion of everything else?

Please keep the conversation on topic.

Thank you!

My Scripture says that yours, while holding seeds of Truth, is not the full Truth (how can it be when it conflicts?)

My various experiences, some mystical in nature, have led me to the Church and the Scripture it compiled. I will not attempt to explain that here however.

 

[DCD]

Your premise comes from a basis of accepting what the Bible and the Church say is true.

You sincerely believe and trust what your scripture and tradition teach. I can respect that.

I just don’t understand your need to dismiss other scriptures and traditions.

My scriptures teach that God is eternal, too and that God comes to Earth to renew spirituality.

I don’t see why Christians (of all sects) need to destroy other traditions to build their own up.

This has been the case in the past and is the case today.

The history of the violent persecution of dissidents and non-believers by the Catholic Church makes me have a very difficult time taking what you say very seriously.

You are twisting the truth. The Catholic Church has never persecuted anyone. Catholics have persecuted others lets be clear, so that you can remain credible.

If we are friends and I demonstrate to you beyond a doubt that 2+2=4. After we both have accepted this fact, I kick dirt in your face and kill your dog. Will you deny the truth because I have personally persecuted you?

Peace,
DCD

 

[brycelaliberte]

Once again, another example of Catholic arrogence in making a statement that isn’t supported by anything else other than itself.

I was merely pointing out the Catholic idea… If you want to argue something, you will have to argue that point, not simply state what you think. Back up what you think, and be open to criticism, and other understanding. This is called discussion.

How do you know he rose from the dead? You just take other’s word…Trust.

You also. Hinduism is even older than Christianity, so technically, you’re placing even more trust in other’s word than me.

And I believe Jesus died and rose again for very good reasons.

Since I’ve seen this come up several times from you, I thought I would just try this exercise to show there cannot be multiple true exclusive truths;

“There can be more than one right. As I am right, you are also.”

But I say;

“There is only one right. By saying I am right, you are saying you are wrong.”

Or, you can also use the word absolute truth.

 

[HelenRose]

My question STILL hasn’t been answered:

What makes you say that YOUR scriptures and tradition vaild, to the exclusion of everything else?

Please keep the conversation on topic.

Thank you!

You ask me: “What makes you say that YOUR scriptures and tradition vaild?”

Love is my only answer. I am in love with the scriptures that the Church has given to us.

The Church does not exclude “everything else” as containing truth.

I believe that God will lead all of us to His Church. How and when this can happen is a mystery. The answer can be found in His Divine Mercy.

 

[Neil_LA]

My Scripture says that yours, while holding seeds of Truth, is not the full Truth (how can it be when it conflicts?)

My various experiences, some mystical in nature, have led me to the Church and the Scripture it compiled. I will not attempt to explain that here however.

Yes…but you are still coming from a basis that your scriptures are true.

I’m just not convinced of that.

How do you know that your scriptures are true?

How do you know that it was God speaking to you in your experiences and not a demon?

Maybe it was a demon that lead you to the Bible and the Catholic Church…

Who’s to say that the Church and Bible isn’t demoniac?
(I’m not saying I believe that…)

 

[LDNCatholic]

Yes…but you are still coming from a basis that your scriptures are true.

I’m just not convinced of that.

How do you know that your scriptures are true?

How do you know that it was God speaking to you in your experiences and not a demon?

Maybe it was a demon that lead you to the Bible and the Catholic Church…

Who’s to say that the Church and Bible isn’t demoniac?
(I’m not saying I believe that…)

No, I’m coming from the basis of my experiences.

Possible, but not probably. Besides, as Ahimsa pointed out, should it prove to be false I may not even incur a penalty should Hindu tradition prove to be true.

 

[Neil_LA]

You ask me: “What makes you say that YOUR scriptures and tradition vaild?”

Love is my only answer. I am in love with the scriptures that the Church has given to us.

The Church does not exclude “everything else” as containing truth.

I believe that God will lead all of us to His Church. How and when this can happen is a mystery. The answer can be found in His Divine Mercy.

Love? How can you say that God sending His Son to earth to be violently killed as atonement is loving?

How can you say that God telling us that unbelievers and heretic should be killed or are going to hell is loving?

I don’t get it.

To me Christianity seems like a fear-based religion.

 

[Neil_LA]

No, I’m coming from the basis of my experiences.

Possible, but not probably. Besides, as Ahimsa pointed out, should it prove to be false I may not even incur a penalty should Hindu tradition prove to be true.

So you’re admitting the chance that your religion might not be true and my religion might be true?