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HelenRose
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Do you have any idea how vicious your tirade sounds? There were people on this thread who were trying to come to an understanding with sincerety and love. You just want to fight.
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Neil_LA
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I’m sorry…I’m just so used to being attacked by Christians that I tend to get defensive.
I think its interesting how immediately I am labled vicious once the shoe is on the other foot.
Do you have any idea how Christians attack and belittle others frequently?
Do you have any idea how VICIOUS and condesending it is for Catholics to say that “the fullness of truth” is in the Catholic Church and no place else? Hmmm…can you understand that?
Do you have any idea how vicious it is to have the Bible thown in your face whenever you want to start a dialog?
The arrogance of saying that “scripture” = “Bible” is a very hurtful thing to those billions of people in the world who have other faiths.
The viciousness of Christians going to “heathan” countries to COVERT people to their faith - without realizing that maybe that the people they wish to convert MIGHT have a vital faith ALREADY is really beyond the pale!
I just think its amazing that Christians in this day and age want to convert the world, without even bothering to admit that the could be somthing they themselves could learn from other approaches to God.
You call me vicious…well…I am sorry…but I feel attacked. When several posters say that the Roman Empire was the center of the world, when other posters say the European civilization is the only valid civilization…yes. I do feel attacked by the blatant Euro-Americo-Christo-centrisim here.
Granted…I did post on a Catholic forum. Yes, I am aware of that.
I did only post in the section on Non-Catholic religions.
I just thought it would be a place of open dialogue, not more of the same old same old.
How can people claim igorance as an excuse? In the world of the internet it takes no time or effort at all to find out about other paths.
I’m sorry…I just can’t get over this “fullness of truth is Catholic” thing…it REALLY gets my gall up!!!
You could then ask me why I’m here…because people of other faiths have had to deal with Christians invading their space for hundreds of years!!
Maybe its time for Christians to get used to people of other faiths saying that they want to go into Christian space.
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ibkc
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Hi, I am a recent convert who spent quite a few years very critical of Christianity. I can see, even from my current vantage point, how the statement that Christianity or the CC has “the fullness of the truth” can be seen by non-Catholics or non-Christians as condescending. However, I cannot see how that statement is, by itself, “vicious.” It’s a statement about a belief system. It is not a personal attack that singles out any other belief system. In fact by its wording it admits that other belief systems can and do hold bits and pieces of the truth. So no, I don’t see how any reasonable person could consider that statement to be “vicious”.
Same with this. If you (speaking generally) don’t consider the Bible to be an authoritative source of wisdom, I cannot imagine how one would think someone who does is “vicious.” Before I came back to Christianity, I would debate Christians and I would let them know that if they wanted to convince me, they’d need to use another source besides the Bible. If they couldn’t do that, I moved on. There was no “viciousness” about it unless they started personally attacking me, which rarely happened. (And BTW, my ground rule of “no Bible” was one of the contributing factors to my interest and eventual conversion to Catholicism, because Catholicism is one of the rare Christian faiths that can argue for itself using reason and history without having to appeal to the Bible all the time.)
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Gottle_of_Geer
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**That’s a rather trivial reason to be incarnate - a prophet could have taught that. As for being crucified - men are not crucified for saying “God’s love will suffer anything”; that could almost have been learnt from the OT anyway. **
**So trivial a Jesus would never have been crucified. ****But Krishna did not die for our sins, nor did any of these “gods”, but only Jesus Who is God in the flesh, not playing at being man, but truly as man (unlike any Hindu gods). Hinduism’s gods are all talk - only the God Who Alone created all things, the utterly Unique God Who was made man in Jesus of Nazareth, does what He commands others to do. **
**Because this Crucified Saviour is the Only Creator & Lord of all creation, He is more truly universal than Krishna. ****If He is truly to be one of us, the God of all creation Who is incarnate in Jesus has to live & die somewhere & sometime - Judaea under the Herods is as good a place as an any. That’s why the Creed includes the name of a Roman Imperial official: it was during that official’s tenure of office that God was crucified, then raised in glory as victor over death & hell. **
**As for the civilisations of China & India - they are nothing but dust, like all the others. God alone is eternal, & can alone not wear out. So it’s rather pointless for things on ****earth to be competitive; they are none of them anything. **
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Neil_LA
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Ok…now who’s being vicious? Sheesh! You people are TOO much!!!
Its a shame that you hate yourself so much that you believe that God had to die for your sins!
What makes you think that “sin” is such a big deal that God needed to die for them?
Maybe Jesus was just showing that death is no big deal and sin is no big deal and we shouldn’t worry about it…
Anyway…you all can’t be talked with…
Once again you’ve reinforced my view that Christians are really evil demons masquerading as devotees of God.
I’m really sorry for you, but I don’t think that Jesus really was able to save you…you don’t seem to live the values you supposedly profess.
I’m sorry…but you all have done nothing to convince me that Christianity or the Catholic Church is of any value or revalence…
Jesus is God, but people who profess His name seem to be demons…sorry…
People I know who are what you call sinners are much closer to God than any of you seem to be. Your self rightousness seems to blind you…
I’m outta here!
May God bless you and bring you to the TRUE Truth!!!
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Gabriel_of_12
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Neil LA, I just finished reading a book of the early church fathers and their martyrdom. The Roman Catholic church knows what it is to be persecuted. I am of the understanding that my Catholic faith does not force, destroy those who come against her, nor does she force her faith on anyone. My Catholic faith teaches that we are to be witnesses of our faith. History Christian martyrs beginning with St. Steven have went to their martyrdom in faith of love of God and enemy. The Catholic faith and tradition is built on these foundations.
Now what ever your history you speak of does not corrolate much truth about this persecution. Sometimes man did things for self gain in the name of the Church which was evil. But no one can judge the Roman Catholic church, because it is the mystical body of Jesus Christ on earth. Their is a difference between sinners in the Church and the Church herself. Like St. Paul states it is a mystery. The natural person is under judgment, but Spiritual person is not under judgement.
Does your scriptures live? Has your scriptures walked the earth, died and resurrected? Does your scriptures by the whisper create that which did not exist? Has your scriptures ever walk on water, heal the blind, bring back to life the dead by eyewitness accounts? Has your scriptures put on the garment of flesh, bury it and raise it up again? Would you go to your death willingly for your scriptures, without fear, anguish, strife, but only for Love of those who persecute you? This the Word of God did all of these and then some, and yet the Word of God is still not finished, The Word of God is going to return soon.
I want you to know that I dont dismiss anyones traditions or religions. When someone makes a false claim about my faith, or accuse her of teaching something that she does not believe in, is the only time a standard is raised to clarify the doctrines underattacked. I have no clue about your scriptures or traditions how can I object to them or come against them. Share them here, and I will share mine with you.
You are speaking to one who does not follow anyman, or any book. I have experienced and witnessed the God of heaven in my life. I searched for God in many places. I am convinced for the short time I have in this mortal body, That the Christian God truly exists. I would have been content dieing and returning to dust. But this is not the case with the Judeo Christian God. He lives, and reigns his creation in heaven and earth, and at the last day, we will all live in eternity either in heaven or in hell. I am convinced they both exist, because I experienced both of them here on earth.
I find it offensive when you state I base my premise of faith on what the bible and the church says as if these were of human origin. I see a different light other than what you have been given or taught. You see my God teaches me himself, I bow my knee before no man, no book, no church. My faith and knee bow down only to the true presence of my dear Lord Jesus Christ himself.
Peace be with you, and praying for understanding
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Neil_LA
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I don’t EVEN know where to start with this…
I know that the Catholic church is telling people tha the inquisition didn’t really happen or that the crusades weren’t really all that bad…that the forced conversion of people in “pagan lands” wasn’t the Church’s issue…(I sometimes watch EWTN…would YOU watch a HINDU program?)
I don’t feel a need to proclaim that “the fullness of truth” is with MY tradition and nowhere else.
I don’t deny that the way God exists for you is real and true for you…I DO object to the Christian need to covert the world and to deny that the way god exists for me is real and true as well.
Why do Catholics have such a strong need to say that THEIR way off realizing God is the ONLY one with the “fullness of truth?”
Why do you insist that Jesus’ activity on earth is the ONLY standard of how God should act when he comes to earth?
Ok…So Jesus rose from the dead…I don’t deny that this is a divine activity…but if you would see that God has come to earth countless times throughout the ages, you would see other divine events without in ANY WAY lessening or diminishing the WONDER and DIVINITY of Jesus and the resurection…
Why to Christian feel that THEIR way is so special?
Krishna came to earth and gave the highest divine love to his devotees…their love was so great that the forgot that he was God…it was completely intimate…no sense of awe, just closeness and supreme happiness…after death, his devotees go to live with Him in his divine abode were every form is a manifestation of divine love. Krishna is the form of truth-consciousness-bliss absolute (sat cit ananda vighraha) and everything related to him is of the same element.
Why is this either inferior or superior to the activity of Jesus? Its neither, just different. Just part of the infinite varigatedness that God shows us…why do Christians want everything the same?
As for asking me if I would die for my religion…I don’t see why I would need to or have to…I’m going to die anyway…why worry about it? If someone hated my beliefs so much that they thought they needed to kill me, they probably would…
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inJESUS
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Gabriel_of_12
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Gottle_of_Geer
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**Who’s being “vicious” ? I underlined the universality of Christ, because you doubted it; so I tried to show that He is more truly universal than any other being called god or God. If you don’t want your objections answered - don’t make the objections 
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What “self-hatred” ? You seem to find a lot in us to criticise - so what is the criticism: that we are evil,or that we are self-hating ?
Sin is the greatest of evils, & none of us is free of it - not even you. Christians know they are sinners. As it is this great evil, we need to face up to it, & not cherish sunny illusions about what we are really like. The very fact that God had to die for us, to win salvation from sin for us, shows how great an evil sin is. What God shows us is great, we cannot think small; what is against His Will, must be against ours also.**So why does the whole Bible, a thousand times over, insist that the opposite is true: that God is displeased by sin,that it is hateful to Him, that it excludes those that do it from His Presence, that it invites severe judgements, **that satan puts on a false appearance to led men to sin, that there is a Hell for sinners, that it must be atoned for, that God is too pure & holy to endure the sight of it, & a thousand more such lessons ?
Jesus Christ is worth more than krishna in that alone, even were He not better than him in all other respects (as He is) - that He is Righteous & Holy & Gracious, & requires holiness, graciousness & righteousness in His servants. What are the amoral godlings & idols of the heathen to that ?Make your mind up - if as you say we are “evil”****, then we a need a Saviour. You’ve answered your own question
**We certainly have no need of you to tell us that we can’t live up to them. You give no reason for your opinion that Jesus was not able to save us - so what is it ? **
Nobody can do that. Without Christ, the Church is totally irrelevant - as is Christianity. We agree on something.
**Again, **that is not news.
Which is precisely why we need a Saviour; and all that He gives us.
##** If you are sorry for us, as you say you are, don’t you have a moral duty to stay & help us
? **
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Margarite
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fhansen
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The Bhagavad Gita was clear as mud to me but all holy books, sutras, etc. have at least some truth which can be edifying but only one had enough to keep my attention for long. Jesus, it is said, awed the crowds because He spoke with authority. The NT speaks about Gods’ will for us in often quite specific and practical terms and the resurrection is related as a non-metaphorical, physical reality. It’s not a lot of flowery stuff that seeks to stroke our egos but rather puts the onus on us for choosing right over wrong-life over death-and gives us the way to achieve this. There’s just so many things-the doctrine of original sin, for one, goes so far in explaining the existence of evil and the remedy for it. The claims of Christianity are distinct and challenging enough that one finally has to believe it or reject it-it doesn’t work as simply an adjunct to help us lead more fulfilling lives. The differences between Christian groups-all calling themselves the true Church-should lead one to see the necessity of having one central historical authority. If I didn’t believe in the CC, I would cease to be Christian. That ability to believe in the Church and the Magisterium, etc, happens the same as the ability to believe in God. It comes by seeking and is a steady process of growth, conversion, and grace.
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